Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[Ame]

@momo

Scummiest attempt to get townread I have seen in a while. I shouldn’t need to explain this vote and won’t because I’m about to sleep, but I’ll write up my thoughts tmmrw after I meta dive spring.

You answered about Hectic, but what about Spring? It's been many a tmmrws.

Went through some of hectic's past games looking for tonal observations. I think that he is town.

Can you explain/provide examples of what sort of tonal observations?

[Farkset]

Explain why you switched your votes, now.

Simple... because of what Ame found you looked - and look - very scummy. And because I initially thought that probably only one of you was scum, the impression that you probably wanted to give. To resolve that, I took my time to re-read what you both said and found out that it is very likely that you two are scum.

Bullshit.

You don't move your vote from scum to scum

You move your vote either from your partner to town who is going down, or from stalled town to another town wagon to give momentum to a terrible capture choice

HURT: NK15

This is not town.

To be honest i'm starting to reconsider springlullaby and warming up to the theory that she is being wked for the purpose of keeping her around because she had wrong reads up to now. Like, if you check springlullaby's accusation progression as i laid it out in my analysis of her slot, it goes like this: AME > HECTIC > FARKRAN who are very likely

all town

. I still strongly dislike springlullaby's claim, but i'm more confident on NK15 being scum right now.

If you look at my reads on the other hand, i have been on SPRINGLULLABY > FOC > CHLOE > NK15 which plausibly contain up to 2 scum. For the record, i no longer scumread chloe.

-Farkran

[Pine]

Time to look back on springlullaby and Farkran:
Springlullaby:

^ Dumb.

We are settling the quest thing now.
We do it, I'm the leader.
Profit.

Trying to push through things like this is never going to be frictionless. Why should town do it that way? It increases conflicts meaninglessly...

Pine, why are you voting me? I found two scums already.

Would town really act like this? Have you ever seen an argument like this coming from town - that you found two supposed scum when it`s early on day 1 and they don`t have said they agreed with you???

HURT: Springlullaby
Scummiest attempt to get townread I have seen in a while. I shouldn’t need to explain this vote and won’t because I’m about to sleep, but I’ll write up my thoughts tmmrw after I meta dive spring.

Should be noted that Hectic is taking a very distinct approach to this game...playing in a highly questioning manner. Haven’t played with him before, but I think his slot will prove to be readable by comparing the questioning tone with his recent games.

Also WHY ARE YOU STILL VOTING NEIGHBORIZER???!!!
Why scum WHYYYYY?

If they think that hectic is scum ... why are they acting like this?

^Day 1 is a no brainer for quest, it is totally protown:
- Low XP pool
- Low accuracy for sabotage

Risk/Reward is win for town.

ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU VOTE ME THE MOST AWESOME LEADER ON EARTH

Exaggerated BS yelling.

I have an upgrade in 1 XP that's why I want leadership btw.

I have an upgrade in 1 XP that's why I want leadership btw.

I don't believe this

-Farkran

Actually you are right. I misread.

FAKECLAIM!

If you are so focused on getting xp for your role you don`t misread.

<subliminal interlude>

FARK IS SCUM

</subliminal interlude>

^

Translate: I lie and am ad hominem and make bullshit cases but want immunity on flip because spring is gonna flip blue.

<chorus>

Farkscum bell, Farkscum bell
Farkscum all the way
Oh! what scum it is to ride
In a scummity scum open sleigh,
Hey!

</end chorus>

And then it begins. I will not quote the rest but there is much bullshit spam from this point naming farkran "farkscum" without really going much into specifics. But there is absolutely no scumhunt attempt behind it. It looks like they actually want to make this a 1v1 but for which ends? Let`s go to Farkran now...


Farkran:


The reason I switched to there are Ame`s posts:

No. This is what you forced upon me, the false dichotomy that you've been talking about but was never there in the first place. The true dichotomy is "people who behaved weirdly around springlullaby" VS "people who had reasons behind their behavior around springlullaby". And it's different than what you said there.

Nope. It's literally what you said:

1) distance themselves by

having the scumteam side with or against springlullaby

2) those who are

siding against her

(and the majority) are

pushing a very easy lhf

3) those who are

siding with her

will be

pocketing her

hard because she is the one with surface reads/reactions

There are people whiteknighting him for very little reason and people who instead sheep the attackers. Depending on her flip i think

we can identify if she was being TMIed town or chainsaw defended as scum.

Like you changed it two times. First it was scum going after LHF vs scum pocketing her (literally the whole point of your original post was this), then it was to scum TMIing town vs scum chainsaw defending scum. And now it's people who are weird vs people who are not. You changed as you went along.

Here are more examples of you playing politically/with optics in mind btw:

Spoiler:

(1) I don't think i ever towncased springlullaby though.

I think there is a fracture around her slot, which makes her flip significative, not more likely to be any of the two - if i had to talk about that post alone.

I think it's more likely to flip red though. My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction, a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering, and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

-Farkran

pedit: oh shit, i had started writing this like one hour ago, forgot the tab open, and now i'm like 20 posts behind. This was a response to Ame's 585

(2) Jemaine, what are your actual intentions? I might sometimes overlook detail but i am trying my best to exchange my views with others to figure out the best action by working with them. Is this your help?

Here you pull old farkran post to prove your point that he is unskilled...
You expect everyone to sheep you in Neighborizering and No capturing but you disappear instead of debating it. It is obvious that we don't follow you, when you never speak about perks of your plan. Do you hope that discrediting every other idea will make us pick yours out of elimination?
~Kerset

(3) Chloe, i scumlean you - i have no issues with you as a person. I feel the need to correct wrong opinions and providing my own, but i don't want you to stop talking.

As you can see, i'm not immune to mistakes though.

-Farkran

The dichotomy isn't described by that last sentence - i mean, those would be the scummy people who interacted poorly around spring. The true dichotomy is wk vs attack, and those can be sorted by spring flip.

Could you rephrase this? I don't know what it's saying. Who specifically would you scum read from Spring's flip based on the way she has been treated so far. Earlier you implied that you would scum read me and Lady upon a town flip. Is this the case? This is the third time I'm asking this btw.

As for the rpg, i want to see what hectic ends up concluding. And it's a fun read.

I'm referring to your 556. Did you mention Hectics cyoa thing somewhere?

(4)

Yes, sorry.

If springlullaby flips town, those who attacked her hard have higher scum equity and i'll be more incline to believe her most confident defenders have been TMIing her. If she flips scum, the strong attackers have less scum equity and i would look into those who attacked her attackers. Rarely scum do whiteknight their partners this early in the game - if they go about defending them, it's usually more subtle, such as a low-to-moderate chainsaw defense tactic.

That said, this does not guarantee a confident read on anyone, and currently my main reads are that springlullaby and conchorde are independently scummy for their dayplay. Lady Chloe, and

(5) to a lesser extent you

for wanting springlullaby as a leader, are dependent on her flip.

Also 556 is from Kerset, i think he's asking what RPG mechanics are you referring to, which would be xp and levelup.

-Farkran

@ame
The difference between you and chloe is that i scumlean chloe indipendently of springlullaby.

If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe,

(6)

but i would likely townlean you

. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?

I admit that i dislike springlul playstyle as either alignment, but i'm trying to analyze the slot impartially. I have no such distaste for chloe though, even if i still scumlean her.

Also raya, don't you think that scum would be able to fake being a mediator, wrt chloe 848? If you read that tonally, does it strike you as town as Pine's introductory plea? I think they ask for similar things but are immensely different tonewise.

Last but not least, i support hectic or raya for quest leader, as an alternative to myself.

-Farkran

Line 1

: "I don't think" is hedgey. You did or you didn't

Line 2

: LAMIST (this one by Ker)

Line 3

: Unprovoked damage control

Line 4

: Unecessarily apologetic.

Line 5

: Backtracking/Damage control.

Line 6

: Further Damage control.

The difference between post 553 and 656 is extreme

and points to scum forgetting their precise motivations.

Lastly, your progression on Spring is off. You're insistent that they are the scummiest person in the universe and that it's absurd for anyone to town read her, despite the fact that you were beginning to town read her in 436. What's even more jarring is the fact that you portrayed yourself as being "convinced" by Hectic in this post, when he was just using the same reasoning you used to convince

him

in the first place (291 + 384).

Additionally, these were your reasons for scumreading Spring at one point (604):

I think it's more likely to flip red though.

(1)

My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction,

(2)

a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering,

(3)

and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

1

This is weak as you had already determined it was null until you were "reconvinced" 291, 384.

2

This is based on the case you made in 454, which I find to be the scummiest post in the game, and one of the silliest things to scumread someone for, due to all the assumptions you're making and the fact that Spring's response to your question prior disproved your point.

3

As I've pointed out, Spring was saying "in 1 XP," meaning she already has XP as the rules say and the 1 XP from leader will allow her to upgrade. Additionally, the way she claimed off-the-cuff was townie.

So the fact that you have been so convinced that she is scum doesn't seem legitimate, as the reasoning presented is severely deficient, especially point 2 which was the justification you used to vote her.

So, what does this all mean?
This post will clear it all up:

I have an upgrade in 1 XP that's why I want leadership btw.

I don't believe this

-Farkran

This doesn`t sound hostile at all. Spring almost instantly retracted the claim "in 1 xp" even if the rules wouldn`t forbid it(1 xp from the beginning->you need 1 more xp...), though; extremely out of character for what spring is trying to emulate(would they really re-check based on that flimsy claim without any added reasoning, "that they don`t believe it"?
But if Farkran

told them to retract that in their scumchat

...
That`s right. No one of them has to hold back because there WILL be a scum flip at the end. This is staged.

Springlullaby vs Farkran is SCUM VS SCUM!

This is a pretty convincing case - even if it's not correct, I think this case never comes from scum. Welcome to the good guys, NK15.

[Pine]

Springlullaby vs Farkran is SCUM VS SCUM!

Oh-oh-oh, things just got interesting

Which is exactly why you moved your vote from SCUM to SCUM, right?

Explain why you switched your votes, now.

-Farkran

This is also a scummy response to a damning accusation. Classic "no u!"

[Pine]

Explain why you switched your votes, now.

Simple... because of what Ame found you looked - and look - very scummy. And because I initially thought that probably only one of you was scum, the impression that you probably wanted to give. To resolve that, I took my time to re-read what you both said and found out that it is very likely that you two are scum.

Bullshit.

You don't move your vote from scum to scum

You move your vote either from your partner to town who is going down, or from stalled town to another town wagon to give momentum to a terrible capture choice

HURT: NK15

This is not town.

To be honest i'm starting to reconsider springlullaby and warming up to the theory that she is being wked for the purpose of keeping her around because she had wrong reads up to now. Like, if you check springlullaby's accusation progression as i laid it out in my analysis of her slot, it goes like this: AME > HECTIC > FARKRAN who are very likely

all town

. I still strongly dislike springlullaby's claim, but i'm more confident on NK15 being scum right now.

If you look at my reads on the other hand, i have been on SPRINGLULLABY > FOC > CHLOE > NK15 which plausibly contain up to 2 scum. For the record, i no longer scumread chloe.

-Farkran

So is this.

[Pine]

Good guys (No particular order)

Pine
Ame
Ginny
Chloe
Raya
mastina's slot
NK15

Medium guys

Momo
Pink Ball

Bad guys

springlullaby
Farkset

[Pine]

Looks like Hectic and FotC are the only ones not on my lists. I'll take a closer look individually when I don't have a crying toddler who needs and nap but MOMMYDADDY NO TIRED

[springlullaby]

This is a pretty convincing case - even if it's not correct, I think this case never comes from scum. Welcome to the good guys, NK15.

Except it's not, just admit I'm a victim to burden of proficiency.

[Mikoto and Kuroko]

@pine

The case comes from Ame, not nk15. And their switch from springlullaby to me is nonsensical after that case.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

@pine

The case comes from Ame, not nk15. And their switch from springlullaby to me is nonsensical after that case.

-Farkran

Wrong hydra

[Ame]

Is anyone willing to settle on Pink Ball?

[Pine]

This is a pretty convincing case - even if it's not correct, I think this case never comes from scum. Welcome to the good guys, NK15.

Except it's not, just admit I'm a victim to burden of proficiency.

You would need proficiency first?

[springlullaby]

It is good for you to be joining us Pine.

Although a little bit disappointing that you would vote me for "spam" and "unnecessary hostility", then post cheap nonsensical comebacks.

As I suspected, your activity level had nothing to do with "gamestate". A little more effort there, people may fall for the color violet, but that's really insufficient.

[Pink Ball]

Is anyone willing to settle on Pink Ball?

Me tbh

[Ame]

I'm not a wallpost fan so I'm not really contributing a lot but I'm glad you guys are having fun!

I didn't answer on purpose.

Me tbh

[Hectic]

Hectic,

As you wish, Lady Chloe.

You are on the RMS Moriarty. The course is set for

XP Island

. However, a tragedy has occurred. Captain

the worst

was killed in a freak accident while

Vending Fruit

to a

Paranoid Gun Owner

. The PGO fled the scene before anyone got a good look at them.

A short time later: springlullaby was found singing poems about Farkset nearby, while Ame was practising her demonic faces. You have a [Hydra, and Portable Ram] at your disposal.

Hydra. They have more eyes for different ways of seeing, and lips to make it harder to speak any lies.

Nice. You carefully take out the hydra you had stored in your backpack. This one has 3 heads, and you hear several complaints behind you about how you're "ruining the game" and that "all hydras should be policy lynched". Your hydra snaps at them and scares the heathens away.

springlullaby has stopped singing Farkset's praises and is now staring at you inquisitively. Her eyes are sending a flurry of ^s your way. Ame seems to have fallen asleep; she must be entering her dreams to figure out the mastermind behind Captain

the worst's

murder.

Which players from [Flavor Leaf, Ginnie, Something_Smart, momo, Raya36, popsofctown] does your hydra contain? And who would you like to approach of [springlullaby, Ame]?

The hydra consists of:
Something_Smart. popsofctown. Ginngie.

Those three are ones I am most familiar with, are on good terms with, and would solve best with. Yes, this is an allusion to potential mains.

I would approach springlullaby to understand the shift in her attitude.

springlullaby points at you^ and then at Ame^. She proclaims she's being BoPed and that she is the only rightful leader.

popsofctown offers to play

Advance Wars: Dual Strike

with her. She refuses.
Something_Smart offers to calculate

EV

with her. She refuses.
Ginngie appears to be preoccupied watching

Jojo's Bizarre Adventure

. Fair enough.

This appears to be unproductive. Meanwhile, mastina jumps overboard, taking several walls with her! This is worrying; you're unsure if the ship will remain stable with the weakened infrastructure. Farkran and Ame do their best to put up some more, but it is a losing battle, and the ship is sinking.

Would you like to [Also Jump], [Ask Flight of the Conchords to give you a lift], or [Escape into Ame's dreamverse]?

[Hectic]

Is anyone willing to settle on Pink Ball?

He feels more like uninterested town recently. I think him noticing I was more serious than usual, and then metaing me to establish that as NAI was town-indicative.

[Flight of the Conchords]

Is anyone willing to settle on Pink Ball?

I'm kind of at the point where Farkscum is creating so much bullshit in the thread that I just want them gone before I think about anything else.

- Bret

[Farkset]

Springlullaby vs Farkran is SCUM VS SCUM!

Oh-oh-oh, things just got interesting

Which is exactly why you moved your vote from SCUM to SCUM, right?

Explain why you switched your votes, now.

-Farkran

This is also a scummy response to a damning accusation. Classic "no u!"

HURT: springlullaby
Enough of this BS.

@NK15 is this vote because springlullaby irritated you or do you have an AI read on her?

They are either overconfident and rude town or powerwolfing scum

. The second is a real possibility, and that one is higher than default, so yes,

I have a scumread on them

. A weak one. If we had access to lynch, which we sadly don`t, a lynch would be highly recommended because them being alive is heavily anti-town.
And about questing: Town should not want that sabotage being around at Night 2+ because losing all stored xp is... too bad at that point. I can get behind the reasoning for a day 1/night 1 quest but after that, the potential damage is just too big.

15. All private topics have daytalk. Any private topics are welcome to request a Discord server.

It doesn't indicate that scum has a daychat PT.

It says that all PT`s have daytalk.
Mafia have a scum PT in approximately 99% of all games.

^This is really bad.

No, it`s not. Don`t disable lurkers.

HURT: Farkset
The motivation does indeed seem to be hidden here.

Probably scum?

Also, the leader on the quest should be me, because I am town.

@Spring @FoC @NK could you address the discrepancies Farkran pointed out regarding your progression? Basically, can you walk us through your thought processes?

There are no discrepancies. About you: Train can be roleblocked. If mafia has a roleblocker they can prevent your role from being upgraded, forever.
About Farkset/springlullaby: Both exhibit questionable behaviour. BOTH.

It is extremely likely that they are not town together. There`s a good case against Farkran though, based on what they said not matching what they said later.... about their motivations...

For these reasons, I am obviously not ok with spring being leader.

Leader:Ame

This is a progression i'm most worried about tbh. NK15 goes from having a scumread on springlullaby (initially weak, in his words), to attacking her multiple times throughout the thread (indicating a continued dislike of the slot, genuine or not), up to ultimately perform a full 180° in post 959 by voting on the player who's most fiercely attacking springlullaby. He does not mention the roleclaim by springlullaby, instead uses "hidden motivations" and "wording inconsistency" as a case against me, while maintaining serious doubts on springlullaby. Why don't you understand the motivations behind my case against springlullaby, if your opinion of her was similar to mine? Why would you shift the wagon momentum away from springlullaby to block me instead? Have you noticed something you didn't like in my case against springlullaby? Where? What are your reasons to trust Ame defending your scumread, as opposed to trust me attacking your scumread?

My vote can be considered on NK15 as well

, if town can muster some will to play as opposed to read pages and pages of 1v1s between me and Ame which is very likely TvT.

-Farkran

Look at post numbers
~ker

[Ame]

Is anyone willing to settle on Pink Ball?

I'm kind of at the point where Farkscum is creating so much bullshit in the thread that I just want them gone before I think about anything else.

- Bret

I've decided I don't want to capture Farkset today. The reason being that if we get the lynch mechanic tomorrow we shouldn't lynch the person we captured today (since they wont be able to NK). And I think Farkset's flip is more important than capturing them.

[Ame]

So does anyone want to volunteer to be captured today for potential lynch immunity tomorrow!? Pink? Hectic?

[Hectic]

Sounds like a sweet deal to me. I'll be happy to sheep a wagon on myself.

[Farkset]

This game is officially the lols.

-Farkran

[Ame]

Awesome <3 Anyone else? Spring? Lady? Raya? I'd prefer one of you three honestly.

Free immunity

Raya?

[Ame]

Also thank you for the Pink read Hectic, I'll differ to you on that. btw what was your read/impression of me in the beginning of the game?