Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[SirCakez]

Votecount 1.4

GuiltyLion (3) - davesaz, Elsa Jay, Albert B. Rampage
Battle Mage (3) - Gamma Emerald, Drixx, Morning Tweet
iDanyboy (3) - Battle Mage, GuiltyLion, momo
Almost50 (2) - Hectic, iDanyboy
farside (2) - xtoxm, GeorgeBailey
Gamma Emerald (1) - Blake Belladonna
davesaz (1) - farside
Drixx (1) - Vecna
Elsa Jay (1) - pisskop
Albert B. Rampage (1) - BBmolla

Not voting (3) - Pine, VaultDweller, Almost50

(expired on 2020-05-01 15:10:00) remain until day end

With 21 players alive, it takes 11 to reach a majority.

"Most people are so ungrateful to be alive, but not you, not any more..."

[farside]

EBWOP: Vecna gets scum points for helping BATTLE MAGE sell his bullshit. Momo was involved but not the direct purveyor of said stinky load. He also tried to sell it to you though. Unless you like carts full of bullshit, maybe you should wonder why those three are trying to sell you one.

What?

Someone posts a readslist.

Battle mage OBVIOUSLY ridicules said person by copying the player list in reaction

You come and try to paint it as scummy what battle mage does, and then attack the people that point out you just did a whoosh?

VOTE: Drixx

And Vecna pulls a KM and pretends to misunderstand and scum read for his failure to understand. I haven't exactly laid down any dissertations yet. Short easy to digest posts. Vecna already got called for helping reinforce the bullshit claim that I voted BM for the reads list, which I already pointed out was a BS misrep and what does Vecna do? He nitpicks a post that I did an EBWOP for because I typed "momo" instead of "Battlemage" and tries to pretend he actually believes I made a temporal order mistake and ... then proceeds to try to sell you all the bullshit claim, again, that my vote came as a result of one thing when it clearly happened in response to something else.

So ... who benefits from obfuscating really clear things in mafia games?

I'm like 99.9% of the way to swapping my vote to Vecna at this point. Either too lazy to actually read short posts or scum. There's literally no other possibility space now.

I'd be down for a Vecna wagon.

So, are you waiting for someone else to do it first?

Permission?

Bettlejuice!
BettleJuice!

This is the second time you responded to a post that clearly tells me you are not reading the thread and you seem to respond only to your name.

[Pine]

Cakez tells me I have to post in the main thread.

I’m not so sure about that.

[Pine]

*Pine has been replaced by JULIUS CAESAR*

please?

I need to be called a plebeian more often

I mean

I can make this happen

[davesaz]

Cakez tells me I have to post in the main thread.

I’m not so sure about that.

Why wouldn't you want to?

[davesaz]

Bettlejuice!
BettleJuice!

This is the second time you responded to a post that clearly tells me you are not reading the thread and you seem to respond only to your name.

Reminding myself to ask about this, but wait until Vecna has had a chance to respond.

[davesaz]

Context: comment about Guilty Lion:

His reads seem phoned in.

Is this about the quantity of posts or quality? I'm never quite sure what people mean when they use "phoned in".

[farside]

Bettlejuice!
BettleJuice!

This is the second time you responded to a post that clearly tells me you are not reading the thread and you seem to respond only to your name.

Reminding myself to ask about this, but wait until Vecna has had a chance to respond.

I know you are not a chatty player in general but you have any insights thus far?

[Xtoxm]

so farside do you tr me?
what changed between start of game where u sr me to influence that?
i dont feel the one post i made in the mean time was particularly ai

[Vecna]

a simple click on my iso would be enough to form an opinion on the statement davesaz. But clearly farsode feels the need to respond in weird ways when being called out on him being scared to vote me.

[davesaz]

Bettlejuice!
BettleJuice!

This is the second time you responded to a post that clearly tells me you are not reading the thread and you seem to respond only to your name.

Reminding myself to ask about this, but wait until Vecna has had a chance to respond.

I know you are not a chatty player in general but you have any insights thus far?

Voting me for being "unusual" is vaguely scummy, since it should be very well known that me being unusual is actually normal.
Asking about it makes you townier.
I have several gut townreads, for example ABR and Drixx. Momo is much improved over what I remember, though I'd have to check my past topics to find out how long it has been.
Battle Mage seems mostly town.
Hectic is Hectic. Pretty obviously town unless it's a huge deepwolf thing. I have more thoughts about him but it's bad for town to talk about those thoughts.
A50 is a little suspicious, mostly for a lack of playfulness that was also lacking in a game we were scum together. But he was also missing it in a game where he was town, so I don't know if it's maybe ups and downs in RL.
Elsa Jay making a comment about me overestimating his ability as scum is a little suspicious. Maybe I'm actually on track with that.
Pine implied he was posting somewhere else but not in the main thread. I want to hear why.
Guilty Lion and George seem a little empty. I've seen the same thing in their town game so it's not enough to go on for a read.

[davesaz]

a simple click on my iso would be enough to form an opinion on the statement davesaz.

Yes, I'm aware of that.

But clearly farsode feels the need to respond in weird ways when being called out on him being scared to vote me.

Noted, but unclear what it might mean about alignment.

[GuiltyLion]

His reads seem phoned in. Why is GeorgeBailey a solid D1 townread? It doesn't make sense.

if it doesn't make sense to you, why not ask me about it?

I've played with George a handful of times now, including a couple full games where he was both scum and town, and I've read him correctly in each. The fact that he was trying to meta off of my recent scumgame in order to townread me this early is a move I find less likely to come from scum, he would have no real incentive to lay the foundation for that read so early and especially in a way that would make it harder for him to walk back later if I become a viable mislynch.

I also liked his post 189 towards you, shows he was thinking critically about your set-up spec and willing to push back instead of sheeping you trying to play town leader.

[GuiltyLion]

Bettlejuice!
BettleJuice!

This is the second time you responded to a post that clearly tells me you are not reading the thread and you seem to respond only to your name.

I don't like this post, Vecna has been commenting and posting more than most players in the game so far and I don't feel at all like he's lurking and only Beetlejuicing in when needed. Bad push

so farside do you tr me?
what changed between start of game where u sr me to influence that?
i dont feel the one post i made in the mean time was particularly ai

also a good point

[GuiltyLion]

I also would like more direct engagement about DanyBoy's 223 and my thoughts about it. Momo/BM seem in agreement with that post being scummy, Morning Tweet feels the opposite. It stands out to me as one of the most indicative posts so far in the game (certainly more indicative than Drixx's pushes on BM/Vecna/momo lol) and I am wary that more people don't feel inclined to voice an opinion on it, especially from ABR/davesaz who are both currently voting me and shading me in one form or another.

[davesaz]

Explain how not having a read on you is shading.

[davesaz]

very little engagement from him and I agree 223 is a bizarre post, the assumption that scum fake claims are flavor linked to the PTs feels angle-shooty in a way that I don't think is likely to come from town. It feels more likely to be an excuse to push a mislynch later - 'they claimed [x] role and they're not in [y] hood' - and less like something DanyBoy genuinely believes is useful in finding scum.

I had previously commented on 223 and didn't feel it was necessary to comment again. But since you feel left out.

Anyone in a hood with flavor that fits with the hood could make that assumption, and it seems pretty valid to me.

Understandable if you're not in a hood that you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.

[Drixx]

I love all the shade on my day one pushes. Since I changed up how I'm doing day one, I've had a 100% success rate on finding scum on day one. Fite me scum!

[Morning Tweet]

His reads seem phoned in. Why is GeorgeBailey a solid D1 townread? It doesn't make sense.

I've played with George a handful of times now, including a couple full games where he was both scum and town, and I've read him correctly in each. The fact that he was trying to meta off of my recent scumgame in order to townread me this early is a move I find less likely to come from scum, he would have no real incentive to lay the foundation for that read so early and especially in a way that would make it harder for him to walk back later if I become a viable mislynch.

I also liked his post 189 towards you, shows he was thinking critically about your set-up spec and willing to push back instead of sheeping you trying to play town leader.

this is a good analysis of George!

@ABR My PT has 3 members including myself

[GuiltyLion]

Explain how not having a read on you is shading.

Guilty Lion and George seem a little empty

. I've seen the same thing in their town game so it's not enough to go on for a read.

why is your RVS vote still on me dave? do you believe I am the scummiest player in the game?

that's fair though I missed your comment in 231. I don't think it quite addresses the root of my issue with Dany's post though - why does he assume scum
a) have fakeclaims?
b) have fakeclaims that are flavor tied to a hood that they're not in? Especially if we believe there are likely to be scum in the hoods?

Scum share a PT and if they have fakeclaims, they've shared those too. So it feels odd to assume there's a scum with a fakeclaim that isn't aware of a hood with another fakeclaim - the only scenario where that would catch scum is if there's an all-town hood with flavor that scum don't know about.

It would also be kinda just bad game design from a mod perspective IMO. "Here's a fakeclaim, but town will catch you mechanically if you claim it".

so I really don't see danyBoy's thought process as valid here, and I feel it betrays an inside knowledge of fake claims and hood flavors.

[Albert B. Rampage]

GuiltyLion and davesaz could very well be bussing each other. In any case, we should concentrate our votes. Bring me a chair and rope.

[Gamma Emerald]

Massclaiming early game is never done for a good reason.

In this case I feel like there's obvious modfuckery going on.

I'd prefer we didnt talk about the hoods at all D1, and just hunted for scum.

I agree with this.

I appreciate why we are having this discussion and the paranoia that comes from having private information, but the simple fact is that there is simply no utility to a neighborhood if we are committing to outing everything that is being said within a neighborhood. There are legitimate reasons why a neighborhood is better than the public thread for saying certain things, and within them lies a potential tool for reducing the process of elimination for which neighborhoods currently have scum within them. The mafia team's greatest asset is that they have more information than the town does, but town can leverage that into forcing the scumteam to show that to the town. Removing that option, to me, is a strange one.

There is little to gain from this for right now. A better course of action is to let it be and if something interesting happens that somebody feels should be in the main thread, then they will post it here. There is no need for ambassadors or to analyze the hoods at this time.

---

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

He had the most awkward entrance to the game.

I don't know if I would call Gamma's entrance to the game awkward. In fact, in my (admittedly outdated) experience with Gamma, I can't see him playing as casually as he is right now as scum. I have him as a decent townlean right now.

The one suspicious factor I can see with Gamma is that he has kept is vote on BM from RVS even as a wagon begins to build on BM.

@Gamma, is this an oversight are do you have a reason?
@Blake, did that factor into your vote on Gamma at all? Your reasoning was vague.

I don't see any reason as of yet to remove my vote. Pretty sure he's not

that

close to lynch, and I'm not to impressed by what he's done so far, and Danyboy seems like a weak vote.

[Albert B. Rampage]

What about Guilty, Gamma?

[Gamma Emerald]

Cakez tells me I have to post in the main thread.

I’m not so sure about that.

Interesting post.

Any reads you've got rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

What about Guilty, Gamma?

It's not much but his scumread on me seems off, like he seems like he's not engaging enough for how he's treating me

I could be enticed to vote him but for now I'm good to stay where I am.