Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[farside]

Let me be clear for a second time. Lynching drew would be best in this circumstance.
Im just reading bith slots as town so im continuing scum hunting till close to end of the day.
If anyone wishes to rush this day further without giving reads. Speak now.

[mavsfan41]

Tanner’s 273 & 274 are EXACTLY on point!

[Persivul]

Tanner’s 273 & 274 are EXACTLY on point!

Who's?

[mavsfan41]

Whoops...... sorry about that! You both have similar avatars. It was an honest mistake.

PERSIVUL’S 273 & 274 are on point. Thanks for the correction.

Lynching what is almost certainly scum day 1 is a blessing for town.

[Drew-Sta]

You are scum!!!!
You are lucky I wanted to play with you this game, but man there is no way I find anything on this page town coming from you.

This is really lazy.

Everyone learns

info is good don't rush the lynch

in their first newbie game. I was on Drew before the claims. I'm mostly town read at this point. There's no incentive for scum!pers to rush the lynch here. As said, in my experience, extending a clear wifom situation generally doesn't help town.

Well I can explain why everything read scummy that page.
The short version is that it reads fake. Each post come off with empty words and im feeling a lot of buddying coming from you.

@drew: this may sound mean but as unabomb continues to post im starting to see him as more of a vi type.

VI type? Sorry, it's been a while, so some acronyms lose me.

@Riabi: your 192 suggests lynching BOTH the claimed millers? Wtf? When Drew flips scum (aka he fake claimed miller) wouldn’t that basically pseudo confirm me as a miller? Lynching me next basically rids town of a mostly confirmed townie. By deciding to lynch me after Drew flips scum is implying it’s more likely that Drew and I are both scum fake claiming miller than the more likely scenario that there’s one miller in the game and I was assigned the role.

Actually, when I flip town you will look like scum. In good faith, and the belief that you aren't stupid enough to CC as scum, I'm trying to get people to consider the fact you also are town so you don't get fucking lynched D2. You can thank me when I flip, but for fucks sake use your head here and

consider

their reaction when I flip town and what it means for you. If you are miller, which I believe you are, that means the pool of options is 10 in D2 for lynching (or less, pending who is killed at night, if there are kills), and that works in towns favour since you and the IC become the only two voices of neutrality that town can trust.

Writing this off is both shocking analysis and a clear and identifying statement that you're unable to consider a possibility you haven't set your mind on.

I've considered it and dismissed it. Based on my experience with the normal queue, it's very unlikely that there would be two millers. Other people beat me to it, but I actually find a zero-miller scum gambit more likely than that. People do dumb shit to try to win scummies.

Why don't you stop trying to summarize what I'm saying and let me speak for myself?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking reading that exchange. Drew's the one doing the gaslighting.

Explain why.

Sure. He makes a judgment based on probabilities - two millers is low probability. That's fine, as most decisions by town in this game are judgments of probability. But, you rephrase it to imply that he's saying two millers is an impossibility, or that he refuses to consider the possibility. That's gaslighting.

Now

you're

mischaracterising my argument and twisting what is said.

I'm saying because he cannot conceive of two millers in the game, he considers it an impossibility (because he believes the probability is far too low to consider it).

You are doing a great job of aggressively trying to get me lynched in five minutes flat.

@farside, why are you viewing Drew as town? I assume as much as you viewed persivul as scum seemingly due to his vote on Drew.

(Also, I've spotted something rather interesting that I wish to bring up, but only after farside's response)

*puts on crazy/wifom hat*

I don't see scum claiming that early with little pressure. To be fair I was scum reading Drew from the start too. His post to Tanner about George was a bit much. His complaint about the votes was hypocritical and bias to say the least. But with manvs claim he believed in it and he even talked about it here with in regards to wifom: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11747814.
He could have stayed quiet after the CC or he could have OMGUS voted manvs as scum.
Scum is going to know they are up shit creek with a CC and get defensive. Instead he is still scum hunting. questing people and know he will be lynched.
if he flips scum I would give him a high five for the deceiving so well.

Just make sure after night, if you're still alive, that you consider all possibilities. It's clear we're not in a 'normal' game per se.

I am town. I know I'm dead man walking. I'm stalling as long as I can to help force scum to post so we can see what they say, and you guys have a chance on D2 to analyse more, rather than less.

This is really simple.

1. Two millers in a mini normal is extremely unlikely.
2. We had a miller claim.
3. We had a counter claim.
4. We lynch the first claim today.
5. If that lynch flips miller, we lynch the counter claim tomorrow.

Let's not overthink this.

Except thinking is exactly what town should do and the fact you're into turbo-lynches makes me consider you are suspicious. The above is literally anti-town. Why? You never get a chance to see what mafia is saying about a lynch.

This situation - a D1 counterclaim - is what you dream of as town. Then when you finally get it, people insist on screwing it up.

Screwing it up? Now you're berating people for screwing it up, Mr Turbo-Lynch?

Good gracious. I'm dead. I get it. But not scum hunting during a day phase is legit anti-town. There would surely be more than one scum, right? So why not take the time to try and find out who that is?

[Drew-Sta]

Whoops...... sorry about that! You both have similar avatars. It was an honest mistake.

PERSIVUL’S 273 & 274 are on point. Thanks for the correction.

Lynching what is

almost

certainly scum day 1 is a blessing for town.

And this is what I'm trying to tell you. The fact you're not certain is why I'm trying to get you to consider the possibility that you aren't the only miller in this game.

[mavsfan41]

@Drew-Sta: you’re right. If you do actually flip miller, I’m gonna be lynched tomorrow no doubt about it. I agree with that 100%. I think it’s waaay more likely that you’re scum who fake claimed miller than there being 2 millers in the game. We shall see (hopefully). If you do flip miller (I don’t think this is the case) day 2 I’m gonna be like “so there were two millers in the game, huh” right as EVERYONE votes for me. And then I flip miller as well. And town is like “well oh fuck.” But thankfully I’ll have been lynched and don’t hafta deal with town in day 3 being like wtf do we do now?! My first post in the dead thread when I’m lynched day 2 after you flip miller today will be “whoops, my bad.” Deal?

[farside]

You are scum!!!!
You are lucky I wanted to play with you this game, but man there is no way I find anything on this page town coming from you.

This is really lazy.

Everyone learns

info is good don't rush the lynch

in their first newbie game. I was on Drew before the claims. I'm mostly town read at this point. There's no incentive for scum!pers to rush the lynch here. As said, in my experience, extending a clear wifom situation generally doesn't help town.

Well I can explain why everything read scummy that page.
The short version is that it reads fake. Each post come off with empty words and im feeling a lot of buddying coming from you.

@drew: this may sound mean but as unabomb continues to post im starting to see him as more of a vi type.

VI type? Sorry, it's been a while, so some acronyms lose me.
?

Spoiler:

Village idiot

. The nice way to say it is he reads a little green behind the ears.

Mans: If there are 2 millers in the game, I don't want the lets lynch the shit out of it without a discussion and if I live to day 2 (which I should given the IC claim) I would fight off your lynch if Drew is town.
I would recommend lynching you before lylo or believe a vig may be out there to get any wifom out of this game.

[farside]

This is really simple.

1. Two millers in a mini normal is extremely unlikely.
2. We had a miller claim.
3. We had a counter claim.
4. We lynch the first claim today.
5. If that lynch flips miller, we lynch the counter claim tomorrow.

Let's not overthink this.

I really don't like this from Persivul he's basically not trying to figure anyone out and just lynch the miller claim and if drew is town and manvs is town then isn't that more of a scum benefit?

[Drew-Sta]

@Drew-Sta: you’re right. If you do actually flip miller, I’m gonna be lynched tomorrow no doubt about it. I agree with that 100%. I think it’s waaay more likely that you’re scum who fake claimed miller than there being 2 millers in the game. We shall see (hopefully). If you do flip miller (I don’t think this is the case) day 2 I’m gonna be like “so there were two millers in the game, huh” right as EVERYONE votes for me. And then I flip miller as well. And town is like “well oh fuck.” But thankfully I’ll have been lynched and don’t hafta deal with town in day 3 being like wtf do we do now?! My first post in the dead thread when I’m lynched day 2 after you flip miller today will be “whoops, my bad.” Deal?

Mate, deal. I'll make sure the beer and dorito's are ready and we can have a good ole lol. Cause our mod has had a chuckle at our expense.

[Drew-Sta]

You are scum!!!!
You are lucky I wanted to play with you this game, but man there is no way I find anything on this page town coming from you.

This is really lazy.

Everyone learns

info is good don't rush the lynch

in their first newbie game. I was on Drew before the claims. I'm mostly town read at this point. There's no incentive for scum!pers to rush the lynch here. As said, in my experience, extending a clear wifom situation generally doesn't help town.

Well I can explain why everything read scummy that page.
The short version is that it reads fake. Each post come off with empty words and im feeling a lot of buddying coming from you.

@drew: this may sound mean but as unabomb continues to post im starting to see him as more of a vi type.

VI type? Sorry, it's been a while, so some acronyms lose me.
?

Spoiler:

Village idiot

. The nice way to say it is he reads a little green behind the ears.

Mans: If there are 2 millers in the game, I don't want the lets lynch the shit out of it without a discussion and if I live to day 2 (which I should given the IC claim) I would fight off your lynch if Drew is town.
I would recommend lynching you before lylo or believe a vig may be out there to get any wifom out of this game.

Ahh... *taps nose*

That would explain things.

Re the second part with respect to what you've said, that's exactly what I've been advocating for (consideration that this possibility is actually happening) so we can utilise this period for future analysis and scum hunting.

This is really simple.

1. Two millers in a mini normal is extremely unlikely.
2. We had a miller claim.
3. We had a counter claim.
4. We lynch the first claim today.
5. If that lynch flips miller, we lynch the counter claim tomorrow.

Let's not overthink this.

I really don't like this from Persivul he's basically not trying to figure anyone out and just lynch the miller claim and if drew is town and manvs is town then isn't that more of a scum benefit?

I agree and said as much.

[Persivul]

You are doing a great job of aggressively trying to get me lynched in five minutes flat.

No, I'm doing a frustratingly poor job of that. I wish I were doing a great job, i.e. more people were voting you.

[Persivul]

I really don't like this from Persivul he's basically not trying to figure anyone out and just lynch the miller claim and if drew is town and manvs is town then isn't that more of a scum benefit?

As said, repeatedly, I see no value in the information derived from a clear wifom situation.

[Tanner]

Persi, I agree the Miller claims have to be resolved (and plan on voting Drew today), but do you think there's benefit to rushing it? Since we still have two practically contentless slots?

[Persivul]

Persi, I agree the Miller claims have to be resolved (and plan on voting Drew today), but do you think there's benefit to rushing it? Since we still have two practically contentless slots?

Yes, I do, as I've said. I think the wifom potential actually muddies the waters.

[Drew-Sta]

You are doing a great job of aggressively trying to get me lynched in five minutes flat.

No, I'm doing a frustratingly poor job of that. I wish I were doing a great job, i.e. more people were voting you.

Tunnel vision is really bad. You are not showing yourself to be an asset for town.

I really don't like this from Persivul he's basically not trying to figure anyone out and just lynch the miller claim and if drew is town and manvs is town then isn't that more of a scum benefit?

As said, repeatedly, I see no value in the information derived from a clear wifom situation.

It's clear you are adding nothing to the conversation at all.

Persi, I agree the Miller claims have to be resolved (and plan on voting Drew today), but do you think there's benefit to rushing it? Since we still have two practically contentless slots?

Yes, I do, as I've said. I think the wifom potential actually muddies the waters.

Actually, it gives the chance to see what people think.

Right now, I see what you, Tanner, farside and others are thinking, how you approach the situation and whether you're a thinker.

Frankly, you'd be the easiest person to manipulate if I was scum. All I'd need to do is get you trained on someone and you'd ignore everything else.

[Riabi]

Persi, I agree the Miller claims have to be resolved (and plan on voting Drew today), but do you think there's benefit to rushing it? Since we still have two practically contentless slots?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but, I want to comment on this idea. I'm normally all for discussion and getting as much info as possible out there. But, at this point, the thread seems to have devolved into the ravings of a lunatic madman, to the point where I don't even read Drew's posts anymore. I just don't care what he has to say. Are you finding any value in his posts at this point?

[Drew-Sta]

Persi, I agree the Miller claims have to be resolved (and plan on voting Drew today), but do you think there's benefit to rushing it? Since we still have two practically contentless slots?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but, I want to comment on this idea. I'm normally all for discussion and getting as much info as possible out there. But, at this point, the thread seems to have devolved into the ravings of a lunatic madman, to the point where I don't even read Drew's posts anymore. I just don't care what he has to say. Are you finding any value in his posts at this point?

/sigh

If this is your attitude, then can we all just get this over with?

[Tanner]

No, I'm not. I'll obviously go back and reread if he's green. I'm more thinking about Luca and Salad's slots. Though I am kinda debating with myself if there is a point in waiting for them. Not sure still.

[Drew-Sta]

Look into Una (to confirm if he's VI or not), Salad and Knightmare.

George trying to clear me looks like buddying. Work out if they're scum.

Pers tunnels. Be careful of that. Tanner I've not made my mind up on.

I trust farside right now.

Don't lynch mav when I turn up town. Try to keep IC and mav alive, as they'll provide you with a neutral view.

I'm off. Enjoy the game. I'll be back to have a beer later.

[Riabi]

No, I'm not. I'll obviously go back and reread if he's green. I'm more thinking about Luca and Salad's slots. Though I am kinda debating with myself if there is a point in waiting for them. Not sure still.

That's fair. Though, I'll point out that we only have like 4 days at this point. I think Luca will be back tomorrow, so no problems waiting for him. But, no clue when we'll hear from Salad's slot, so, don't wait too long for that.

[Wake1]

Now that I think of it, being IC, I SHOULD NOT be voting.

Because you all already know my alignment, having me vote is one vote less from an u confirmed player to analyze.

Rather, you should have the unconfirmeds be voting so that we can better suss out who's who.

IF there's a situation where we're hours away from deadline and need a hammer I can help with that.

[UnaBombaH]

2. We had a miller claim.
3. We had a counter claim.
4. We lynch the first claim today.

And I'd argue Miller is one of the few roles where we lynch the original claim first, always.

I can see why people are hesitant though, because it seems like a slippery slope where scum might get two easy mislynches on us just because the setup *could* be weird..

This situation - a D1 counterclaim - is what you dream of as town. Then when you finally get it, people insist on screwing it up.

Well, because the game has scum in it and they want to mess it up.
Simply the fact that I've been called scum for not rushing the lynch, and even Drew himself twisting my words into me "buddying him" makes me think he will likely flip scum.
I'm still glad we have been getting more content out of people though.

[UnaBombaH]

VI type? Sorry, it's been a while, so some acronyms lose me.

She feels like I'm a bad player. Or just stupid.
A Village Idiot, if you may. And those really do show up in Normal Games..
/s

[UnaBombaH]

Look into Una (to confirm if he's VI or not)

And I'm the one who feels like a newbie?

Nobody seems to understand what a reaction test is.
Nobody understands what it's about when we have basically a set lynch, and instead of us all just shutting right up and voting someone, I wanted to create conversation and slow the voting down (if possible).

Instead I get called scummy and noob-y while we have now started to see multiple posts with the same PoV and idea anyway.

We lynch Drew today, there's never going to be a better option D1 with a "CC'd" Miller on the board as well.
We absolutely NEED to resolve Mavsfan before a situation like LyLo as well, but assuming a scum flip from Drew we are not in a rush with him yet.
If we have a vig, that is always a good shot.
If we have a rolecop, that is a decent check to get a conftown too, etc etc.

The only noobie-thing I've done so far, has been assuming that people actually read my posts in a game.