Newbie 1996: GAME OVER

[LuckyLuciano]

In about 5 minutes if you haven't declared who you want us to talk about I'm going to be leaving to do other things, and my vote on you is staying. Hurry up.

[Kirari Momobami]

I don't equate being wrong with deliberately navigating a newbie game as an experienced player in a way that you know will confuse newbies.

I mean I'm townreading you because I don't think you try to bury the thread in three pages of bloat as a scum tactic in a newbie game

"deliberately navigating a newbie game" = saying townreads are masons and scumreads are "cop guilties" when I make it *painfully* obvious that's what I'm doing is like... a pretty bad faith argument

I really don't get how anyone could take those posts seriously. For the record, the last time I got pushed in this manner, the person pushing me was scum (in Ali v. Titus)

It's a very lamist argument. In this case I think *you* are town but you should maybe appreciate this is an incredibly easy and lazy argument for scum to make?

[LuckyLuciano]

UNVOTE: Kirari

Eh, I wanted something more climatic. I am going to be away for a big, and want to give time for everyone to post, give implicating results, etc.

[Kirari Momobami]

And l-1ing under 12 hours into day 2 of an argument *this lazy* and *this bad* when you aren't even bothering to engage my reads -- again, if you can't keep track of my reads over 2 pages, what was the point of reading 30 and commenting on every single one?

[Kirari Momobami]

I already said my solve

Are you actually trying to get me to rage vote you right now through sheer denseness?

[Yooh]

What is scummy about hammering someone after I've declared intent and their response is to sheep a dumb end of day push on the person that declared intent?

My problem is not the reason of hammering, but the way you hammer whenever it suits you.

Spoiler: How your vote is scummy

For the record, if this was not newbie queue I would have already hammered :3

This is "intent to hammer" post already. So we get it that you wanted to hammer.

VOTE: Holden

Here's my end of day preference so that everyone can see how bad I look when Alora actually ends up flipping scum for some reason

Alright, voting your scumread, so we have more contents.... right? So you hold your hammer for more contents.

This is a dumb move as either alignment btw,

(1)as town your job is to not get lynched for bad reasons

and you just eliminated the top reason to not hammer you

If you're going to present the person with the hammer as a counter-wagon you just die,

(2)that's why monkey's posts here are slimy af. (3)You should have been able to recognize that.

VOTE: aloratom

Somehow you abandoned your scum-Holden read and ignored my request to not hammer for another 24 hours. (I am a little bit upset because my 2+ hour on-work post was gone because instant locked thread, but if you're mafias, it's impressive)
As the bolded part, this is should be an enough reason to hold your hammer if you're town.
First point, it is questionable for scum-Alo doesn't want to vote Bounty. It means Alo had reason why town-Bounty better than him.
Second point, if Monkey's posts are scummy, why didn't you straighten this up in day 1?
Third point, I don't get this, but I think you said town-Aloratom should recognize there was something wrong with scum-Monkey's post? This doesn't make sense at all.

I'm not buying that reason you're trying to save Monkey.

You're turning down town progress rather than trying to see Aloratom's flip here.

I'm almost entirely sure Panda is asleep at this hour so I doubt we'd get a flip before morning anyway

(This is basically an assumption but I think Panda is our mod, Elmo, and you wait for that instant-lock.)

Yooh can you explain how you feel right now about this game

Upset, because you deleted my 2+ hours on-work post. And somehow now everyone read you scummy? Wutface.

[Yooh]

secondly, about Kirari's behavior.

Please explain why town read on Kirari at day 1, please?

Also, is there any specific reason why your read on Lucky and Aloratom have walls, while the others not?
Why the order is Lucky -> Aloratom -> ?

[Kirari Momobami]

Upset, because you deleted my 2+ hours on-work post. And somehow now everyone read you scummy? Wutface.

Okay but like... first, I didn't 'delete' that post. Presumably if you're going to make a long post you'll hit p-edit or save it?

Secondly, what was in that post?

[Kirari Momobami]

As the bolded part, this is should be an enough reason to hold your hammer if you're town.
First point, it is questionable for scum-Alo doesn't want to vote Bounty. It means Alo had reason why town-Bounty better than him.
Second point, if Monkey's posts are scummy, why didn't you straighten this up in day 1?
Third point, I don't get this, but I think you said town-Aloratom should recognize there was something wrong with scum-Monkey's post? This doesn't make sense at all.

I'm not buying that reason you're trying to save Monkey.

You're turning down town progress rather than trying to see Aloratom's flip here.

OK. Consider it this way
-I don't actually know Alora's alignment
-I don't actually know Monkey's alignment

Monkey is starting *a whole new thing* post-claim. If Monkey wants to push me, fine, but expecting that whole dispute to get resolved in 24 hours is not likely to actually be productive for the game when I don't *know* Alora is town. Until I *know* Alora's alignment, I can't evaluate whether Monkey is white knighting, choking on a scum wagon, saving a buddy, farming towncred, or simply wrong town.

As it was, I still had 3B and LL as town, Who as likely town, and Who had also expressed intent to hammer. *none of that was going away* It had had the entire dayphase to go away. As it was I was also already trying to decide of I had given Alora a pass too easily; the tone of his posts was +townie but as many people pointed out, it wasn't helping him solve the game.

And then, post-intent, he sheeps his *scumread* to start pushing the person who had given intent who had been basically the only person who had any point in the dayphase had been willing to give him a townread. It made *no sense* and it would be very distracting day 2.

For gamestate, Alora was easily the next best thing after a redflip, and continuing to drag out the day would only risk *outing more town power*. This is why blaming me for FPSing is *super dumb* when allowing town to consolidate on a mislynch is *meant* to deny scum more info. I still think Who was killed for being townread and he simply happened to be a tpr. But allowing the day to end at that point was pro town since I was not *confident* Monkey was actually scum.

Finally, if my thought is right that Monkey is town with bad reads, then there's the chance he is nightkilled if he stops scumreading me before end of day. Allowing *a little* unfinished business at the end of day 1 can be very pro-town because it gives scum less information about where reads actually are.

This is also why I'm a little suspicious of your push here. If you actually spent two hours writing up a long post, you probably could just... summarize what you said, why you wanted the thread to wait, and where you were at. Was what you posted going to change the lynch? Or was it to garner towncred? Given that I don't know your alignment, why should I allow you to delay a hammer when there is ultimately a chance that Aloratom flips scum? I know there's an argument from 'niceness' perhaps but we'd already suffered through three pages of LL spamming stuff that produced almost no conversation or actual new content. The thread did not need more bloat, it needed a flip, and while I appreciate that you might have put some more thought into your post, my hammer is going to hammer when I no longer see any productive argument changing the day's lynch.

At this point you need to really convince me that you had two hours worth of thoughts because you attempting to guilt trip a player in the game for a mod locking the thread after a TWELVE HOUR overdue hammer is making me have very little desire to find you town at the moment. That was a long enough intent that somehow the people complaining about the wait are now obliged to complain about the hammer... because Alora omgus'd me? Please.

[Kirari Momobami]

VOTE: Yooh

I actually think this is actually by far the highest hit % today at right now

I don't think I'm ever wrong on bounty or LL, there's worlds where I'm wrong on clidd, monkey of the people seriously wrong today is still probably the most likely town, Yooh is probably naked scum and Holden is at the moment my top pick for partner

[Kirari Momobami]

Actually this game probably makes more sense to me overall if clidd is scum but I don't want to screw with that read right now.

I feel like thinking 'what if the person reading the game the same way as me is scum' is just about the least efficient way to play day 1

This is sound like "best practical play". Would you teach me more about this (For all SE) ? I get the point it might be not efficient, but following someone / being followed bring up a lot of paranoia. If this is not allowed to discussed, remind me when the game's end.

this is still the post that probably most bothers me for Yooh scum; this was a very townie post and so if I'm wrong here it's for not maintaining a townread off this post alone

Hello

VOTE: LuckyLuciano

VOTE: Kirari

The hammer is too scummy.

as town your job is to not get lynched for bad reasons and you just eliminated the top reason to not hammer you

This is sounds coming from mafias. I can't see the reason why holding for another 24 hours was a problem and sudden hammer to instant-lock. Even if your wagon is voted by 2 persons, I still believed it's hard to go anywhere

If you're going to present the person with the hammer as a counter-wagon you just die, that's why monkey's posts here are slimy af

If you believe scum-Monkey tried to mislynching you, I'm sure you have a reason to hold your hammer at this state.

Aloratom - (4) - 3bounty, LuckyLuciano, Holden golden, Clidd, Kirari Momobami - Lynch!

I'm pretty sure 2 mafias in here.

If we preflip LL town (which might not be popular but okay) then Yooh, like LL, has exclusively voted town this game.

Now if LL is scum then whoops, but still, this means if LL were able to find me town then VCA here is not good for Yooh. Moreover he's not re-evaluating mid-day or using his vote to solve for pressure.

I don't like Holden's posts at page 7 and 8, but maybe I'm just too serious for this.

EBWOP:
Softtown: Holden, Yooh, Kirari

How do you get me as town?

I don't understand what you're getting at here. If two people jump on and lynch Peaches, and she's Town, we get a lot of information out of that.

But I don't get how we get a lot of information if Peach flips as town.

I actually don't like any of these posts. I don't like the non-committal position on Holden, I don't like questioning the townread as his top concern with Monkey, I don't like him pre-flipping Peaches as town when Peaches was a dead null

VOTE: Kirari

The hammer is too scummy.

as town your job is to not get lynched for bad reasons and you just eliminated the top reason to not hammer you

This is sounds coming from mafias. I can't see the reason why holding for another 24 hours was a problem and sudden hammer to instant-lock. Even if your wagon is voted by 2 persons, I still believed it's hard to go anywhere

If you're going to present the person with the hammer as a counter-wagon you just die, that's why monkey's posts here are slimy af

If you believe scum-Monkey tried to mislynching you, I'm sure you have a reason to hold your hammer at this state.

Aloratom - (4) - 3bounty, LuckyLuciano, Holden golden, Clidd, Kirari Momobami - Lynch!

I'm pretty sure 2 mafias in here.

this is just a very scummy post

arguing 2 scum on day 1 wagon is scummy (I'd expect 1 tbh, maybe Holden; it'd only be 2 if clidd); he's like pre-flipping me scum by implication but he's not committing to the second scumread; arguing the hammer is "too scummy" is like apologizing for his scumread on me; the point about monkey feels like scum-plaining rather than the kinda frustrated legitimate push that monkey and LL have seemed to have.

I'm not like deadlocked on Yooh scum but there's a lot of equity here outside of 208. I think my biggest issue is complaining about a "2 hour post" he was writing that he didn't check the thread for to see it was locked while he was writing? Like it just sounds fake to me. It'd be a bad thing to be wrong on but among other things that would be lame to be wrong on (LL as scum spamming the thread for towncred, being wrong on clidd, being wrong on 3B, etc) this is the one I have the easiest time actually seeing about fake since if he actually was so worked up about his conclusions or observations *he would have just said them already*. Whatever he was saying before hammer, I think he would have actually just said at start of day rather than immediately going to push me.

[Kirari Momobami]

When Yooh is posting multiple times in the same day, there's basically never more than 20 minutes between posts. I honestly think that was a really scummy lie to generate some very lazy AtE

Anyway it's actually just easier for me to read Yooh as scum here over Holden, partly since Holden just hasn't checked in yet and I need to see his thoughts overnight but mostly because I had multiple doubts about Holden and Yooh looks pretty bad on reread

[Kirari Momobami]

I'm not hyper-tunneled anyway, if Yooh wants to hard townspew somehow I look forward to it

[humaneatingmonkey]

let's truce over this beautiful day, mmkay

[3bounty]

Yoooh is probably town. I think highest hit % is on the Alo wagon. The build up was too fast to be all town on there.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yoooh is probably town. I think highest hit % is on the Alo wagon. The build up was too fast to be all town on there.

so who are you voting for scummy boy?

[humaneatingmonkey]

> I think scum is in Alo's wagon.
> Does not FOS.

ISHYGDDT

[humaneatingmonkey]

It's 100% 3bounty and Kirari

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why do you have 3B as town, Kirari?

[humaneatingmonkey]

EBWOP:

So if I'm correct on clidd/LL/3B as a towncore, then the game is solved by lynching in those three. Do you want to argue that any of those three are scum at this point?

Why do you have 3b as town, Kirari?

[humaneatingmonkey]

maybe i shouldnt be posting because im super baked

[humaneatingmonkey]

ngl Kirari's recent posts seem towny tho..

[humaneatingmonkey]

or not. idk. will read tomorrow. good night.

[3bounty]

Yoooh is probably town. I think highest hit % is on the Alo wagon. The build up was too fast to be all town on there.

so who are you voting for scummy boy?

Waiting on Holden to post something.

[Yooh]

Okay but like... first, I didn't 'delete' that post. Presumably if you're going to make a long post you'll hit p-edit or save it?

Secondly, what was in that post?

Surely it means it never happens with you. If you click preview / post when the thread locked, it's gone. Just gone. You can't go back and see what you have written so far because it is locked. And I'm simply just still mad because every time I go back read here, it reminds me how stupid it was. I'm not saying it is alignment indicative because all of that could be a coincidence.

A post about how bad is Aloratom's cases. No, it is futile in day 2. I needed to reread back and forth everyone PoV so it needed a lot of time.
one of them was this post

Spoiler: Holden's case on Aloratom

Monkey, chill.

There's reasonably discussing someone reads and then there is you being a mock Adam sandler flipping out. I find Alo's case sketchy as well, but throwing counter arguments out like that in tone wont help nobody but scum (unless I'm wrong on you being town in which case good job I suppose?)

VOTE: Alo insert rest of name here

I'm fine with this at this point for the time being.

I have no idea what is the reason for voting Alo here.

Monkey is starting *a whole new thing* post-claim. If Monkey wants to push me, fine, but expecting that whole dispute to get resolved in 24 hours is not likely to actually be productive for the game when I don't *know* Alora is town. Until I *know* Alora's alignment, I can't evaluate whether Monkey is white knighting, choking on a scum wagon, saving a buddy, farming towncred, or simply wrong town.

I'm not saying we need to resolve everything in small space time, but if we had more time in those tight time, it would be good for town, especially in pressured time like that. I'm admit that I'm lack of experience here, I don't know if there is differences if we talked about that in D1 or right now, but I believed if we talked when it was fresh, it is better.

What? Why would you assume what Monkey do from another flip?
Scum-Monkey is trying to white knighting town-Aloratom, but wait, town-Monkey could be protecting his town-read town-Aloratom here.

And then, post-intent, he sheeps his *scumread* to start pushing the person who had given intent who had been basically the only person who had any point in the dayphase had been willing to give him a townread. It made *no sense* and it would be very distracting day 2.

No sorry, I don't get how it is "very distracting for day 2" when he was the leading wagon. Like, there was 4 of you voted Aloratom, 2 wanted to vote also, what I want is answer why people voted him with better reasoning. I agree that Aloratom was not answering all of people cases in him, that's why it is better when Aloratom around.

For gamestate, Alora was easily the next best thing after a redflip, and continuing to drag out the day would only risk *outing more town power*. This is why blaming me for FPSing is *super dumb* when allowing town to consolidate on a mislynch is *meant* to deny scum more info. I still think Who was killed for being townread and he simply happened to be a tpr. But allowing the day to end at that point was pro town since I was not *confident* Monkey was actually scum.

What? The other wagon is Bounty and it is going nowhere because Aloratom didn't want to vote Bounty. How is that risk "outing more town power"? I don't want to discuss night kill because it is stupid.

Finally, if my thought is right that Monkey is town with bad reads, then there's the chance he is nightkilled if he stops scumreading me before end of day. Allowing *a little* unfinished business at the end of day 1 can be very pro-town because it gives scum less information about where reads actually are.

No, completely disagree. I don't know why you assuming who mafias wanted to kill at day. That "unfinished business" is leaving town less information also.

This is also why I'm a little suspicious of your push here. If you actually spent two hours writing up a long post, you probably could just... summarize what you said, why you wanted the thread to wait, and where you were at. Was what you posted going to change the lynch? Or was it to garner towncred? Given that I don't know your alignment, why should I allow you to delay a hammer when there is ultimately a chance that Aloratom flips scum? I know there's an argument from 'niceness' perhaps but we'd already suffered through three pages of LL spamming stuff that produced almost no conversation or actual new content. The thread did not need more bloat, it needed a flip, and while I appreciate that you might have put some more thought into your post, my hammer is going to hammer when I no longer see any productive argument changing the day's lynch.

And here we are, weak Aloratom's case remain weaks because Aloratom can't explain why he did that. I need to agree about three page of LL spamming tho. To summarize, all of Aloratom's cases are weak and since hammer happened, it remained that way. Looks like a good mislynch? Yes, it is.

At this point you need to really convince me that you had two hours worth of thoughts because you attempting to guilt trip a player in the game for a mod locking the thread after a TWELVE HOUR overdue hammer is making me have very little desire to find you town at the moment. That was a long enough intent that somehow the people complaining about the wait are now obliged to complain about the hammer... because Alora omgus'd me? Please.

Hello? You can see when was my last post of day when I started to back to read again. I have 5 hours with the needs to do housing stuffs. Because you are having a lot of free time, it doesn't mean I have it also.

arguing 2 scum on day 1 wagon is scummy (I'd expect 1 tbh, maybe Holden; it'd only be 2 if clidd); he's like pre-flipping me scum by implication but he's not committing to the second scumread; arguing the hammer is "too scummy" is like apologizing for his scumread on me; the point about monkey feels like scum-plaining rather than the kinda frustrated legitimate push that monkey and LL have seemed to have.

Wait, I know myself town. The only one who is not voting Aloratom, not even want to vote Aloratom, is Monkey. After he tried to protect Aloratom, I should cast a lot of doubt in this slot because this slot

technically still can be

mafias slot. Doesn't sounds good to me? Why would I doubting this slot today? (I mean, you guys SE taught me this)

Yes, somehow I confident enough with you flip as mafias. I would rather see your interaction with others which one is your partner.

How the hell I apologizing in there?

Why should I frustrated in begin of day 2? Is this post doesn't push you enough now?

I don't like questioning the townread as his top concern with Monkey, I don't like him pre-flipping Peaches as town when Peaches was a dead null

Because I already read Monkey as town at the time, but I haven't did shit that I could gain townread from someone?
What? The context in here is Aloratom said town-Peaches flip is useful. It is questionable. How is that "scum-Yooh pre-flipping Peaches as town"?

Moreover he's not re-evaluating mid-day or using his vote to solve for pressure.

What pressure are you talking about here when all of you are so active while I'm so busy that you guys already pressured Who and Peaches? I did reread the whole thread once and I still see the same like I saw before?

I'm not like deadlocked on Yooh scum but there's a lot of equity here outside of 208. I think my biggest issue is complaining about a "2 hour post" he was writing that he didn't check the thread for to see it was locked while he was writing? Like it just sounds fake to me. It'd be a bad thing to be wrong on but among other things that would be lame to be wrong on (LL as scum spamming the thread for towncred, being wrong on clidd, being wrong on 3B, etc) this is the one I have the easiest time actually seeing about fake since if he actually was so worked up about his conclusions or observations *he would have just said them already*. Whatever he was saying before hammer, I think he would have actually just said at start of day rather than immediately going to push me.

Because I quoted so many like this? How should I realized the thread is locked when I wasn't in last pages of thread? I can see why it is like complaining because I'm still mad with how it's done, but as I said it is not alignment indicative because it is basically just my assumption. I'm not as expressive as you guys, so I don't mind if you said it's sounds fake to you. So basically, I would like wrote those up again in the night when I can't quote post, I have a chance to get nightkilled, and wrote it all again. Big no for me.

When Yooh is posting multiple times in the same day, there's basically never more than 20 minutes between posts. I honestly think that was a really scummy lie to generate some very lazy AtE

The only AtE I post is how mad I am that my post is gone. How is that "very lazy AtE"?

So basically you think I'm scum because
1. Lack of activity
Alright I can see that, but I didn't see anyone complain in D1. If someone used it as reason of me being mafias, I got a lot of questions for you.
2. Lack of AtE
Maybe, again I'm not as expressive as you guys, but do I really need to be really sounds "mad" or "happy" when I post?
3. My what-i-claimed-to-be-long-but-gone post is somehow "fake"
I even said that how it's gone is non alignment indicative, why would scum-Yooh blatantly "claimed his post is gone" then?