Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[Drew-Sta]

You could not flail like a fish and actually try to have solved the game or at least looked at it from a different point of view. The WIFOM hasn't really sat well.

I didn’t flail. And I did try to solve it. Did you even read what I posted?

[mavsfan41]

@Drew: I’ll answer your 365 in a subsequent post.

With regards to George:
144, 156, & 158 ALL suggests the possibility of a double miller. This in combination with (144 again) and 150 provides an out for George to NOT vote Drew with the reasoning of allowing a vig to take him out. With the way he was suggesting this, he believes this is the scenario. This is enough for George to vote elsewhere. (Personally I don’t like the one-sided giving Drew an out and omitting how both millers would be hypothetically taken out by a vig. My omission here is weird.)

Now in 352 he’s suggesting that if Drew flips green, I’m lying. This doesn’t make sense with your double miller belief. The above mentioned posts suggest two millers is likely (why you refuse to vote Drew) but here you suggest that IF Drew flips green (aka miller) would farside (who does buy my claim) changer her view on me. This means George believes a double miller if it allows him to not vote Drew but if Drew flips miller, I’m fake claiming meaning there aren’t two millers. Why not allow me to be taken out by a vig like you suggested the same about Drew? Why would Drew flipping town destroy your double miller theory?

The most likely scenario here would be that George and Drew are scum buddies (George’s belief of a two miller setup as a reason to protect Drew) but possibly also George but NOT Drew setting the stage for when he knows Drew will flip town. Thoughts?

[Drew-Sta]

/cue Tanner throwing me insults.

Have I insulted you at any point? If so, I apologize, that was not my intention.

I haven’t an issue with what is said in game.

I make the statement because I believe you and Pers are playing the person and tunnelled completely on me.

Someone else accusing me of walls is amusing. You want analysis, but when I do, it is claimed I WIFOM or simply post confusing things.

[Wake1]

Do we have a tally on any claimed roles currently?

I can't really vote, so I can only really gather basic info and question people.

And I'm kind of leery of posting because as IC there's a very high likelihood Scum will try to buddy me to some extent, to get Town points.

[Tanner]

Drew, I'm not tunnelled. The reality is, in the vast vast majority of cases (and maybe all of them, but we don't know) there is either 1 Miller in game, or zero Millers in game. And what is more likely? That this is that exact one in a who-knows-how-many games where there are two Millers, with the reviewers knowing what shitfest it would cause, or that one of the Millers is lying? It has to get resolved.

pedit: Drew claimed Miller, mavs then also claimed Miller. That's all so far claims-wise.

[mavsfan41]

@mav: Do you think, given your future status as Shrodinger's town (BTW, I very much like that phrase), you should push for your own lynch to ensure town does not have such confusion moving forward?

Day 2, nah. Before lylo, sure I suppose. Let’s see what the numbers are and how many scum are left before deciding what day.

IF you flip miller, my lynch day 2 would put town 1 mislynch in day 3 from a lylo situation in day 4 as days 1-3 would result in mislynches

IF you flip scum, that would give town an extra day before lylo and therefore my day 2 lynch isn’t necessary at that point.

The biggest question I have about the possibility of two millers is: why would scum!Drew fake claim miller? My possible answers are:
1) what I said in 107. You believed that miller would claim first post and when everyone had posted and no one claimed, you thought it was safe to claim
2) you said “fuck it” and claimed hoping there wasn’t one in the game BUT if there was, suggest the possibility of a two miller setup

Number 2 is too risky cause even with you throwing the idea of a double miller setup, you must’ve known you’d be fucked if you got CC’ed. Even if you decided to do this thinking the reward outweighed this risk, you must’ve known what a miller claim would result in. Hell, everyone seems to believe mine (if you think I’m lying, vote now) but still some want me lynched day 2.
Number 1 is the more likely scenario but although I very much believed this to be the case, it seems weird for you to post that far into the game assuming a miller would’ve come forward with 4 players at one post. Too much risk.

I don’t have an ideal reason scum!Drew fake claims miller unless you believed it to be a premature last resort to throw off the pressure you were receiving but at page 5, it seems far too soon. But post 81 is just icky. It seems weird. And now that I think of it, you and George are the same aren’t you? Why does 81 say you’ll be the obv NK but I should push for my own lynch day 2? Wtf?

Both of you have this same theory that Drew should be taken out at night (George saying you should be vig’ed) and you’re saying you should targeted by scum BUT me, I should be lynched day 2.

Oh now I’m starting to definitely think you’re both scum.

[mavsfan41]

@ George and Drew: why are you guys playing with different miller rules for Drew (saying he should be vig’ed or the obv NK) and me (pushing for my own lynch day 2 seemingly regardless of the Drew flip)?

[farside22]

@farside22 - didn't realise I'd played a game with you over 6 years ago.

Mini1591. Reading through that steaming pile of shit that was D1 brings back some memories.

I'm afraid to look back and see that game, but I thought I remember playing with you.

Why does drews post bother you?
How do you get to that conclusion based on tanners comment.

Drew just seems to have accepted their fate. Its just almost sad that they are giving up as a caught scum though there is no real issue with it. Knowing this couldn't mav just be a backup as well for Mafia I believe I has saw it in the Normal list.
Sorry I'm not one for normals a lot of the time and its just something I look at.

Reading back Ill take the comment about tanner comes across as scum hunting with the exception of the push onto Drew but then again Drew is looking like a fish out of water at the moment. Well rather has been for a while in this game.

*Looks to see whom you replaced, feels very happy with scum read*

Mod: Please update player list and could we please have a vote count

@Wake: Do you know when the mod will let people know you are the IC? I thought that happened from the start or day 2. Can't remember because it's been awhile.

[Drew-Sta]

@ George and Drew: why are you guys playing with different miller rules for Drew (saying he should be vig’ed or the obv NK) and me (pushing for my own lynch day 2 seemingly regardless of the Drew flip)?

What? I’ve claimed I must die in this lynch. The delay is simply evidence gaining.

That’s a direct lie by you.

[mavsfan41]

Sorry, dead by day two. I'm the obvious mafia kill, and I honestly don't think it's wise for me to try and 'fake it' to simply be a hero. Better to do my duty and help town.

And yes, I am.

Why have you stated that I should push for my day 2 lynch? The above applies to miller!Drew, shouldn’t it apply to me?

[Drew-Sta]

@mav: Do you think, given your future status as Shrodinger's town (BTW, I very much like that phrase), you should push for your own lynch to ensure town does not have such confusion moving forward?

Day 2, nah. Before lylo, sure I suppose. Let’s see what the numbers are and how many scum are left before deciding what day.

IF you flip miller, my lynch day 2 would put town 1 mislynch in day 3 from a lylo situation in day 4 as days 1-3 would result in mislynches

IF you flip scum, that would give town an extra day before lylo and therefore my day 2 lynch isn’t necessary at that point.

The biggest question I have about the possibility of two millers is: why would scum!Drew fake claim miller? My possible answers are:
1) what I said in 107. You believed that miller would claim first post and when everyone had posted and no one claimed, you thought it was safe to claim
2) you said “fuck it” and claimed hoping there wasn’t one in the game BUT if there was, suggest the possibility of a two miller setup

Number 2 is too risky cause even with you throwing the idea of a double miller setup, you must’ve known you’d be fucked if you got CC’ed. Even if you decided to do this thinking the reward outweighed this risk, you must’ve known what a miller claim would result in. Hell, everyone seems to believe mine (if you think I’m lying, vote now) but still some want me lynched day 2.
Number 1 is the more likely scenario but although I very much believed this to be the case, it seems weird for you to post that far into the game assuming a miller would’ve come forward with 4 players at one post. Too much risk.

I don’t have an ideal reason scum!Drew fake claims miller unless you believed it to be a premature last resort to throw off the pressure you were receiving but at page 5, it seems far too soon. But post 81 is just icky. It seems weird. And now that I think of it, you and George are the same aren’t you? Why does 81 say you’ll be the obv NK but I should push for my own lynch day 2? Wtf?

Both of you have this same theory that Drew should be taken out at night (George saying you should be vig’ed) and you’re saying you should targeted by scum BUT me, I should be lynched day 2.

Oh now I’m starting to definitely think you’re both scum.

This is an utterly bizarre post.

[Drew-Sta]

Sorry, dead by day two. I'm the obvious mafia kill, and I honestly don't think it's wise for me to try and 'fake it' to simply be a hero. Better to do my duty and help town.

And yes, I am.

Why have you stated that I should push for my day 2 lynch? The above applies to miller!Drew, shouldn’t it apply to me?

I’m suggesting I die. It’s the only way to clear this situation. If I manage to survive D1, which I won’t (and shouldn’t) I’ll probably get NK’d as it puts pressure on you. WIFOM I know but a clear and sensible move by mafia.

[mavsfan41]

Sorry, dead by day two. I'm the obvious mafia kill, and I honestly don't think it's wise for me to try and 'fake it' to simply be a hero. Better to do my duty and help town.

And yes, I am.

Miller!Drew - as the miller, I’m the NK. Don’t worry about me guys

@mav: Do you think, given your future status as Shrodinger's town (BTW, I very much like that phrase), you should push for your own lynch to ensure town does not have such confusion moving forward?

Also miller!Drew - as the miller, mavs you should push for your own lynch come day 2

This is weird coming from an actual miller!Drew.

[Drew-Sta]

Drew, I'm not tunnelled. The reality is, in the vast vast majority of cases (and maybe all of them, but we don't know) there is either 1 Miller in game, or zero Millers in game. And what is more likely? That this is that exact one in a who-knows-how-many games where there are two Millers, with the reviewers knowing what shitfest it would cause, or that one of the Millers is lying? It has to get resolved.

pedit: Drew claimed Miller, mavs then also claimed Miller. That's all so far claims-wise.

So when I flip town, what are you going to do?

[Drew-Sta]

Sorry, dead by day two. I'm the obvious mafia kill, and I honestly don't think it's wise for me to try and 'fake it' to simply be a hero. Better to do my duty and help town.

And yes, I am.

Miller!Drew - as the miller, I’m the NK. Don’t worry about me guys

@mav: Do you think, given your future status as Shrodinger's town (BTW, I very much like that phrase), you should push for your own lynch to ensure town does not have such confusion moving forward?

Also miller!Drew - as the miller, mavs you should push for your own lynch come day 2

This is weird coming from an actual miller!Drew.

Yeah ok. Whatever. You’re gonna look really stupid after I’m lynched.

[Tanner]

Drew, I'm not tunnelled. The reality is, in the vast vast majority of cases (and maybe all of them, but we don't know) there is either 1 Miller in game, or zero Millers in game. And what is more likely? That this is that exact one in a who-knows-how-many games where there are two Millers, with the reviewers knowing what shitfest it would cause, or that one of the Millers is lying? It has to get resolved.

pedit: Drew claimed Miller, mavs then also claimed Miller. That's all so far claims-wise.

So when I flip town, what are you going to do?

Look at who died in the Night, reread Day 1, and I guess look to resolve mavs one way or another?

[mavsfan41]

@Drea: there’s two miller claims. The issue I have is that you and George seem to have different resolution ideas.
For you: NK’ed by mafia (your 81) or vig’ed (George’s 144 at the bottom). Either way, both are saying no worries about Drew’s miller, night actions will resolve that one
For me: I should be proactive and push for my own lynch day 2 (your 356 and has been mentioned in subsequent posts) and George’s 352 but his is a little more complicated. He pushes the very real possibility of two millers but seems to suggest if you flip miller that I should be lynched day 2. This would suggest I faked my CC and there are NOT two millers which is a clear contradiction from the handful of posts suggesting that exact scenario.

Shouldn’t both millers have a similar resolution? Why should I be proactive in securing my own lynch day 2 but your resolution will come via night actions. In fact, you suggest you’re the obvious kill but me, I won’t be the obvious kill? And the longer I stick around, the worse off town is. Shouldn’t that also apply to you? And shouldn’t you have stated that somewhere? This just strikes me as you made up town reaction to a miller claim then when presented with another miller claim, you seemed to have altered your course significantly.

[Persivul]

I make the statement because I believe you and Pers are playing the person and tunnelled completely on me.

I don't think tunneling is an appropriate term here. I have other scum reads. You're the vote today due to mechanics. When a lynch is pretty obvious, it's difficult to apply pressure to others. That, along with the wifom factor, is why I'm not pressing anyone else today.

[Persivul]

Do we have a tally on any claimed roles currently?

I can't really vote, so I can only really gather basic info and question people.

You could gather info by, you know, reading the fucking game.

[Persivul]

@Wake: Do you know when the mod will let people know you are the IC?

It's in big bold letters in post 2.

[Drew-Sta]

@Drea: there’s two miller claims. The issue I have is that you and George seem to have different resolution ideas.
For you: NK’ed by mafia (your 81) or vig’ed (George’s 144 at the bottom). Either way, both are saying no worries about Drew’s miller, night actions will resolve that one
For me: I should be proactive and push for my own lynch day 2 (your 356 and has been mentioned in subsequent posts) and George’s 352 but his is a little more complicated. He pushes the very real possibility of two millers but seems to suggest if you flip miller that I should be lynched day 2. This would suggest I faked my CC and there are NOT two millers which is a clear contradiction from the handful of posts suggesting that exact scenario.

Shouldn’t both millers have a similar resolution? Why should I be proactive in securing my own lynch day 2 but your resolution will come via night actions. In fact, you suggest you’re the obvious kill but me, I won’t be the obvious kill? And the longer I stick around, the worse off town is. Shouldn’t that also apply to you? And shouldn’t you have stated that somewhere? This just strikes me as you made up town reaction to a miller claim then when presented with another miller claim, you seemed to have altered your course significantly.

It’s almost like you read what I write, then twist and turn it to make it say something different.

153 was me overtly stating I was a clear town. I suggested vig if we have one can take you out NK1 as it resolves the issue of people wondering if you’re lying.

I’ve advocated for you to survive D2 in 294. I’m trying to suggest to you that you are gonna get slammed D2 and what are you going to do about it? You’re not reading or hearing what I’m saying at all.

[Drew-Sta]

Should read ‘ 153 was me overtly stating I was a clear lynch option.’

[PranaDevil]

You could not flail like a fish and actually try to have solved the game or at least looked at it from a different point of view. The WIFOM hasn't really sat well.

Suggesting Drew has "flail[ed] like a fish" is really bad. He's actually been pretty straight with what he's said. I'm not suggesting that makes him town, I AM suggesting that trying to paint what he's done as anything other than having a clear directive is at best stupidity, and at worst, scummy.

And I'm kind of leery of posting because as IC there's a very high likelihood Scum will try to buddy me to some extent, to get Town points.

Why is that a bad thing? I absolutely WANT to see scum buddying you. It gives us more information. You're the one person who should be posting a lot. You should be pushing every little thing anyone says because you need to make damned certain we get information from slots regarding how you push them, because there's no uncertainty that you are town as you're mod-confrmed. Not posting, and not reading the thread fully, is extremely anti-town.

Sorry, dead by day two. I'm the obvious mafia kill, and I honestly don't think it's wise for me to try and 'fake it' to simply be a hero. Better to do my duty and help town.

And yes, I am.

Miller!Drew - as the miller, I’m the NK. Don’t worry about me guys

@mav: Do you think, given your future status as Shrodinger's town (BTW, I very much like that phrase), you should push for your own lynch to ensure town does not have such confusion moving forward?

Also miller!Drew - as the miller, mavs you should push for your own lynch come day 2

This is weird coming from an actual miller!Drew.

No it's not.

Drew's post 81 was made when he was the ONLY miller claim. You made your CC after that point. Therefore Drew's viewpoint has changed.

Again, that doesn't say "Drew = town", as scum would definitely say "hey, I will die tonight" and if they survive go "WIFOM". But to suggest that Drew's post when he was the only miller claim should be the same as what he says AFTER a miller CC is very, very poor.

[farside22]

I make the statement because I believe you and Pers are playing the person and tunnelled completely on me.

I don't think tunneling is an appropriate term here. I have other scum reads. You're the vote today due to mechanics. When a lynch is pretty obvious, it's difficult to apply pressure to others. That, along with the wifom factor, is why I'm not pressing anyone else today.

Who are your other scum reads?

@Wake: Do you know when the mod will let people know you are the IC?

It's in big bold letters in post 2.

Wow the font the mod picked is terrible!!!!!

[Luca Blight]

As of now, my read for scumteam is una, george and drew. I'm sus of drew for obv reasons. I'm sus of george because of his spectacularly shitty defense for drew. Una is sus for defending george by pushing tanner. I think either Una or Drew were the bus target because of the quotes in 166.
Does anyone have the vote count on drew?

This aligns quite well with my thoughts at this stage of the game.

Luca, I would be interested in hearing what you think of George, and my take on his "spectacularly shitty defense".

I can see your PoV, but I don't agree.

I think a strong defence in such a situation could be indicative of not being partners, but a lukewarm defence like George's, almost testing the waters, is something I could see coming from scum, especially scum who aren't confident of carrying home the victory after their mate is lynched D1.

George is a new-ish player I believe, so it wouldn't surprise me if this reaction turned out to be S/S.