Newbie 1996: GAME OVER

[Kirari Momobami]

Masonry: lucky, alora, 3b, kirari, holdengolden, who
N0 cop guilty: clidd

Ez game

I think Yoon is mason too actually

either it's clidd/monkey or I mason'd LL too easily

either way I don't really see how clidd isn't scum just through PoE

Ok actually let me collect myself

Almost certainly masons with me: Yooh 526, Alora as I noted in 287, 3B I read stuff like 519 as pretty town

Probably should be good mason contender? Who 226 -- strongly spews Who town if Peaches slot flips scum
LL 520 -- just tonally think this is town, less sure on this slot overall
Holden thought 438 was town enough to joke mason but 533 is a little scummy and now he's kinda low again

Maybe Monkey isn't actually lower than Holden or far below LL, I liked the read on who in response to 226 but it's a little hard to find hard town here for some reason, maybe he's town if he's actually right on LL just not sure yet

Clidd I think is just scum through PoE

When I say someone is masons with me, it means one of two things:
a) they're masons with me :3
b) I townread them strongly

I'm sorry but exactly 0 of these posts can be honestly characterized as a fakeclaim

The AtE and whining about my play is a mixture of scummy and bad-faith over-reaction

You can dislike my playstyle if you want but at the end of the day scum have almost certainly been pushing a smear to guide town overreactions

None of it looks even remotely close to an actual claim

[humaneatingmonkey]

bruh

[HoldenGolden]

I'll stop talking about it, and suggest we all do since I opened up a can of worms. Since it is different playstyle choices, we can debate it end game if need be. I think at least for me, you and I kirari value different rewards for playing (you seem to enjoying staying alive and solving the game correctly while I feel honored to be nk d1 as a VT for example)

I need to read 3b posts lately more closely

[Kirari Momobami]

See how 3/4 people

the thing is that there's like... 1-2 town among them

I would believe both scum have been pushing "waah kirari too fancy for newbie queue" narrative

[humaneatingmonkey]

but this is not an "out of a game" conversation. i want to understand why someone would do what kirari did as town, because if she is VT, it IS kinda part of your job to be NK D1 as a VT. I recall that she was doing it so that "she would stay alive" — a PR move. But as a PR, you want yourself to be LEAST killed. So why try to "protect" me? You feel me?

[Kirari Momobami]

I guess you're like "man why is she not apologizing over this"

and what you have to understand is that I HAVE played it the other way

I've replaced out of 4+ games because of people whining about my play

and EVERY time more than 50% of the people whining about my play are scum

There has NEVER been a case where everyone complaining about my play has been town

That doesn't always mean the loudest voice is scum, but scum are always pushing the narrative when it gets going

And the simple fact of the matter is that when people start complaining about playstyle and arguing that their push is due to playstyle and not alignment-indicative thoughts, *that is scummy*

VERY often

And if you think town FPSing is annoying, you should also consider that town letting scum bully strong players out of the game through AtE is *also* really bad for games.

Anyway I'm gonna peace out of this game for the night because I'm probably repeating points in ways that are making people bored at this point

[Kirari Momobami]

but this is not an "out of a game" conversation. i want to understand why someone would do what kirari did as town, because if she is VT, it IS kinda part of your job to be NK D1 as a VT. I recall that she was doing it so that "she would stay alive" — a PR move. But as a PR, you want yourself to be LEAST killed. So why try to "protect" me? You feel me?

I mean you can flip the argument any way you want

"Kirari is a safe kill because she won't be protected because of that hammer"

"Why would Kirari keep softing TPR as VT? We should kill her"

The bottom line is that I'm going to get nightkilled no matter what I do very often and so there's no reason to not to enjoy the ride

Now actually this time I'll be out

[humaneatingmonkey]

and EVERY time more than 50% of the people whining about my play are scum

There has NEVER been a case where everyone complaining about my play has been town

So 50% of the people whining about your play are scum? So 50% MUST be town?
Is it 50% town or is it never?
Again, choose.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think that's the point man, if your playstyle attracts scum because they can effectively use that against you for a mislynch (and benefit them), you should be doing some changes as town.

Anyway, I'm now thinking I'm happy you also did it in a newbie game, because you would have also learned something.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Jesus fucking christ Day 2 and it's already 45 pages.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Clidd, can you be a good boy and help us confirm Kirari's meta defense?

[HoldenGolden]

@Holden, like I said, I do not agree with your points in your first post. I just answered a question based on what was posted. Do you have an answer for your question then? Besides 3B and apparently besides you. So there is probably no answer besides "Kirari is town". Is that what you were going for with your question?

The problem is the 3 points are subjective and assumes too much about what the scum team and town team should and shouldnt and would and wouldnt do

.

Almost everything in this game is either subjective or is presented in a subjective way (you still have to believe the cop claim to take in the objective information a cop check brings it.). You are right that I am speculating what mafia would do, but I can say the same and say you are speculating that I as scum would out myself by that post.

The besides 3b doesnt really work anymore since I cleared up the confusion as you did scum read kirari. So everyone before my post was pushing kirari. My question is about is kirari town. It's me trying to understand your analysis of what I've posted beyond "I disagree with it. You did what you said scum would do aghhhhh kill Holden blelelele" (this is a reference to sc2 not me mocking you)

What about that post makes you feel the speculation is scum, and more importantly since you seem to briefly think it, scum saving their partner? That's what I want to know. I'm fine with you saying my logic is wrong. I want to understand what you see explicitly scummy behind it In an actual analysis.

[3bounty]

1071 comes from a scum POV unless he 100% knows Kirari is scum. Read it multiple times and in no way does it benefit town if he is VT with uncertainty. So either he is some sort of PR with info on Kirari or he is scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

HoldenGolden, let's talk buddy.

I agree that Kirari could be town, if only that she's easily the best choice for scum to be a mislynch set-up. 3bounty just makes sense as scum. However, the tricky part is his whiteknighting of Kirari here doesn't lead me to believe that Kirari is "the mislynch" of the day. He's been saying "within Alo's wagon" but he doesn't consider Kirari at all. See why it's difficult? We can lynch 3bounty today, find out he's scum, and then we'll just go back to lynching Kirari. Does these thoughts makes sense?

[humaneatingmonkey]

1071 comes from a scum POV unless he 100% knows Kirari is scum. Read it multiple times and in no way does it benefit town if he is VT with uncertainty. So either he is some sort of PR with info on Kirari or he is scum.

So why are you not voting? Are you really scumhunting or are you PR hunting?

[HoldenGolden]

HEM is extremely scummy but I'd rather go with higher odds wagon. We have the D1 info I think we should use it.

Your Yoooh vote is useless imo, he was not on the wagon and not even scummy. There is little reason to lynch Yoooh at all.

Why is HEM extremely scummy?

You are scum reading 3/4s of the alo wagon. There can only be two scum, and you admited earlier that you arent sure if all of the scum is on that wagon.

This is why I want to see more your analysis. You seem hellbent on lynching that wagon because alo flipped town, yet you are questioning/pressuing people who you deem scummy (HEM apperently) to figure them out better. This is what I was raising with floof when he said something similar about the reasons everyone voted alo.

[humaneatingmonkey]

but this is not an "out of a game" conversation. i want to understand why someone would do what kirari did as town, because if she is VT, it IS kinda part of your job to be NK D1 as a VT. I recall that she was doing it so that "she would stay alive" — a PR move. But as a PR, you want yourself to be LEAST killed. So why try to "protect" me? You feel me?

I mean you can flip the argument any way you want

"Kirari is a safe kill because she won't be protected because of that hammer"

"Why would Kirari keep softing TPR as VT? We should kill her"

The bottom line is that I'm going to get nightkilled no matter what I do very often and so there's no reason to not to enjoy the ride

Now actually this time I'll be out

HOLD ON.

So why do you think you're not NKed here?

[3bounty]

@Holden, like I said, I do not agree with your points in your first post. I just answered a question based on what was posted. Do you have an answer for your question then? Besides 3B and apparently besides you. So there is probably no answer besides "Kirari is town". Is that what you were going for with your question?

The problem is the 3 points are subjective and assumes too much about what the scum team and town team should and shouldnt and would and wouldnt do

.

Almost everything in this game is either subjective or is presented in a subjective way (you still have to believe the cop claim to take in the objective information a cop check brings it.). You are right that I am speculating what mafia would do, but I can say the same and say you are speculating that I as scum would out myself by that post.

The besides 3b doesnt really work anymore since I cleared up the confusion as you did scum read kirari. So everyone before my post was pushing kirari. My question is about is kirari town. It's me trying to understand your analysis of what I've posted beyond "I disagree with it. You did what you said scum would do aghhhhh kill Holden blelelele" (this is a reference to sc2 not me mocking you)

What about that post makes you feel the speculation is scum, and more importantly since you seem to briefly think it, scum saving their partner? That's what I want to know. I'm fine with you saying my logic is wrong. I want to understand what you see explicitly scummy behind it In an actual analysis.

Like I said, I do not agree with your post. So by pairing you with Kirari as the answer, does not mean I am saying you're scum.

[HoldenGolden]

HoldenGolden, let's talk buddy.

I agree that Kirari could be town, if only that she's easily the best choice for scum to be a mislynch set-up. 3bounty just makes sense as scum. However, the tricky part is his whiteknighting of Kirari here doesn't lead me to believe that Kirari is "the mislynch" of the day. He's been saying "within Alo's wagon" but he doesn't consider Kirari at all. See why it's difficult? We can lynch 3bounty today, find out he's scum, and then we'll just go back to lynching Kirari. Does these thoughts makes sense?

I'm fine lynch 3b depending on his responses (the fact he is now scum reading off the wagon he is so sure has scum is raising more eyebrows)

My one issue with 3b/kirari tem is the fact that he denied stacking on kiraris proposed yoohs wagon earlier before the kirari v floof interactions. i feel like if you are leaving your partner to be the main focal point of town you dont narrow down your ability to support them if the plan goes wrong.

[3bounty]

HoldenGolden, let's talk buddy.

I agree that Kirari could be town, if only that she's easily the best choice for scum to be a mislynch set-up. 3bounty just makes sense as scum. However, the tricky part is his whiteknighting of Kirari here doesn't lead me to believe that Kirari is "the mislynch" of the day. He's been saying "within Alo's wagon" but he doesn't consider Kirari at all. See why it's difficult? We can lynch 3bounty today, find out he's scum, and then we'll just go back to lynching Kirari. Does these thoughts makes sense?

I did not white knight Kirari, all I did was not vote at the time. I said the hammer was town. How does that make me break up the wagon? I am still gathering alignment info.

[3bounty]

1071 comes from a scum POV unless he 100% knows Kirari is scum. Read it multiple times and in no way does it benefit town if he is VT with uncertainty. So either he is some sort of PR with info on Kirari or he is scum.

So why are you not voting? Are you really scumhunting or are you PR hunting?

Again, still gathering info.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Let's assume 3b is scum.

What is the probability that he would defend town!Kirari here? Kirari was also at L-1 earlier, without 3bounty on the wagon, yet he didn't hammer her.

[3bounty]

HEM is extremely scummy but I'd rather go with higher odds wagon. We have the D1 info I think we should use it.

Your Yoooh vote is useless imo, he was not on the wagon and not even scummy. There is little reason to lynch Yoooh at all.

Why is HEM extremely scummy?

You are scum reading 3/4s of the alo wagon. There can only be two scum, and you admited earlier that you arent sure if all of the scum is on that wagon.

This is why I want to see more your analysis. You seem hellbent on lynching that wagon because alo flipped town, yet you are questioning/pressuing people who you deem scummy (HEM apperently) to figure them out better. This is what I was raising with floof when he said something similar about the reasons everyone voted alo.

HEM is scummy because almost every post about me is I am scum and we should lynch me. Does not seem town from my POV at all. Lazy reasons attached never help his case.

[HoldenGolden]

Yeah I'm not seeing the white knight you re talking about (I thought he did but i misread something he said) . Can you show me where the Whiteknighting in question is?

[3bounty]

HoldenGolden, let's talk buddy.

I agree that Kirari could be town, if only that she's easily the best choice for scum to be a mislynch set-up. 3bounty just makes sense as scum. However, the tricky part is his whiteknighting of Kirari here doesn't lead me to believe that Kirari is "the mislynch" of the day. He's been saying "within Alo's wagon" but he doesn't consider Kirari at all. See why it's difficult? We can lynch 3bounty today, find out he's scum, and then we'll just go back to lynching Kirari. Does these thoughts makes sense?

I'm fine lynch 3b depending on his responses (the fact he is now scum reading off the wagon he is so sure has scum is raising more eyebrows)

My one issue with 3b/kirari tem is the fact that he denied stacking on kiraris proposed yoohs wagon earlier before the kirari v floof interactions. i feel like if you are leaving your partner to be the main focal point of town you dont narrow down your ability to support them if the plan goes wrong.

I said highest scum % would be on the wagon, but I am in no way certain of anyone's alignment. Are you saying that I am scum if I manage to find scum off wagon? Just because I said highest hit % would be on wagon? What?