Newbie 1996: GAME OVER

[clidd]

that's literally the only reason I was passing on clidd so if he's claiming VT then he's definitely scum

VOTE: clidd

What is the logic of this ?

[LuckyLuciano]

I don't see that as a soft. I don't think Who softed TPR. I think he reacted as a TPR would to your D1 fishing. There's a difference. Also, Kirari, I'm pretty much putting you on hard-ignore for the rest of the game.

[Kirari Momobami]

The logic is that there's too much town in this game for you not to be the top hit in the PoE if you're not mech town

Convince me otherwise, please

[LuckyLuciano]

Like, if Kirari is town and we lose, I won't even be upset with how I've played this game. I've been mentally check out the entire game and he's still playing obvScum from my perspective.

[Kirari Momobami]

Wow you're shockingly toxic

[LuckyLuciano]

I mean, if I'm right then I'm not being toxic. If I'm wrong, maybe don't openwolf as town next time?

[Kirari Momobami]

If you don't think I've had clidd as a tpr basically ever since he made that post and you actually think I kill who, who was a reasonable player and not nearly as much of a threat, over clidd, then you... do not know how I play this game, which is fair

but clidd would be the top kill even if I didn't have a tpr read on him, and I did, so... yeah sorry, but no, if clidd is claiming vt then he's almost certainly scum because there's too much town everywhere else

[Kirari Momobami]

I mean, if I'm right then I'm not being toxic. If I'm wrong, maybe don't openwolf as town next time?

Way to showcase pro-social behavior for the newbies, LL. For the record I'm fine just blacklisting you for implying you would gamethrow

[HoldenGolden]

I dont doubt the claim really given its day 2 and I dont see it done in a gambit fashion for scum to close it.

Kirari you said it yourself why inwho was killed earlier regardless of pr discussion (being town read). Cli2ds up there for sure in terms of good kills for scum, but there is a reason why he wasnt killed.

I need to consider this new info.

[clidd]

I did not understand this conjecture. The NK depends on the reasoning of the scum alignment, and in the Scum!Clidd scenario there would be a prioritization of threats rather than hunting for PRs.

In that case, Luciano would be neutralized instead of Who22. Is that what you want to hear ?

[LuckyLuciano]

Not being upset with losing if a townie openwolfed = being okay with throwing the game? No, not the case. I'm simply saying that I don't blame myself if you are town and we lose.

[HoldenGolden]

Note¹: The way Yooh reacted during the discussion with Kirari is towny.

Can you explain this more cli2d when you get a chance btw?

[LuckyLuciano]

I did not understand this conjecture. The NK depends on the reasoning of the scum alignment, and in the Scum!Clidd scenario there would be a prioritization of threats rather than hunting for PRs.

In that case, Luciano would be neutralized instead of Who22. Is that what you want to hear ?

I do actually believe this statement to be true, given my prior experience with Clidd. Unfortunately, it doesn't clear him because if Kirari is scum, which he is, then scum is actively looking for TPRs, Who gave himself away as TPR, and scum has reason to kill TPR over me - especially because I deliberately and publicly chose to ignore reading the Clidd slot until LYLO, and because I said one of Kirari's actions was townie towards the end of D1, which he clearly took far too seriously.

[HoldenGolden]

Just to make sure,

Can roleblocker carry KP and rb in the same night in this set up?

I havent played with this new set up and cannot remember if rb can multitask

[LuckyLuciano]

It's probably worth some, however small, town-cred that Clidd answered truthfully rather than trying to push an ulterior motive.

pedit: Yes, roleblocker and multitask. https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=NewD3

[Yooh]

@Everyone, does anybody see flaws in my belief that Kirari is scum, or believe that town ever wins if he's town? If the answer to either question is yes, let's discuss it. If not, let's preflip Kirari red and find his partner.

Wait, how is this work? Mafia Goon killed InWho, Mafia Roleblocker block someone. Am I missing something here? That post confirms Kirari as town. The only way this post doesn't confirm Kirari as town if mafia allowed to do 2 actions in same time. Is this allowed?

Mafias also have day-talk? What the fuck?

[LuckyLuciano]

EBWOP: can multitask*

[HoldenGolden]

Ok, that is what I thought but wanted to make sure since floof had the same idea I had.

And yes, rb can kill and carry apparently. mafia having day talk is common on mafiascum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

what happens to LL's results if Kirari was jailkept by InWho22?

[LuckyLuciano]

I'm going to do a VCA pre-flipping Kirari red, and pre-flipping myself green. While I do that, I'll probably also do one pre-flipping Holden and Yooh green for my own benefit, because I see both of them as TvS with Kirari. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong to assume that, I haven't been reading the game that closely.

Pedit: When mafia has a roleblocker in this setup they are always roleblocking and killing the same target until they know there is no possibility of a living jailkeeper. They minimize their tracker exposure that way and RB precedes JK, so they can kill the JK if the JK tries to block the NK. Further, if the killer/RB is tracked they can still claim other visiting roles.

[Kirari Momobami]

Not being upset with losing if a townie openwolfed = being okay with throwing the game? No, not the case. I'm simply saying that I don't blame myself if you are town and we lose.

You're accusing me of "openwolfing"

I'm sorry, because why?

Because I:
-identified that if aloratom was town that he would be targeted by TPRs and thus the gamestate would still be uninformed
-identified that multiple townies had persistent day-long pushes on aloratom and that his lynch would advance the game
-hammered aloratom when he identified willingness to push the one slot I 100% know is town (myself) after I had declared intent and he had claimed
-joked about how strong my townreads are
-defended myself on day 2

What are you talking about, dude? What exactly am I supposed to feel bad about this game? What would I have done differently?

[Kirari Momobami]

what happens to LL's results if Kirari was jailkept by InWho22?

then there would still be the chance I was roleblocker

[Kirari Momobami]

I mean I never imagined you would be this toxic LL

You're right about that

[LuckyLuciano]

[gifv]

-hammered aloratom when he identified willingness to push the one slot I 100% know is town (myself) after I had declared intent and he had claimed

+

For gamestate, Alora was easily the next best thing after a redflip, and continuing to drag out the day would only risk *outing more town power*.

does not compute from a townie perspective.

[HoldenGolden]

There is a tinfoil reading of a Yooh/Kirari team too on the premise of outing the last PR I guess but I doubt Yooh's tone is faked there upon skimming through it again. Would be quite impressive if it is.