Mini Normal 2132 [Game Over]

[Hectic]

Oh, 614 came after 557 lul. I think he does believe his reasoning in that post though.

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[Hectic]

I realized something about the tictac wagon-- I think regardless of tictac's alignment, there's probably scum on it. Okay maybe that's not a super hard deduction to make but bear with me here

I agree with this

VOTE: aaron actually
I'm less certain Chemist is scum here and Aaron is not making me feel good about this wagon

I could go for this.

VOTE: AaronFrost

There were 3 others on 1 vote at the time of these posts, and Cakez' was the first on AFF, so this isn't as opportunistic as I remember.

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[bob3141]

tictac (4): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, SirCakez, Wake88
Aloratom (2): tictac, davesaz

-----

Chemist1422 (4): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii
Aloratom (4): Chemist1422, davesaz, AaronFrost, Wake88

---------
Chemist1422 (5): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii, HoldenGolden
Aloratom (4): Chemist1422, davesaz, AaronFrost, Wake88

--------

Chemist1422 (7): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii, HoldenGolden, Aloratom, SirCakez
Aloratom (4): Chemist1422, davesaz, AaronFrost, Wake88


progression of teh alort v chemist wagons

[AaronFrost]

Why did you choose alort over chemist?

You were pushing players to consolidate onto your lynch.

Because I had a read on alort and I didn't have a read on chemist, and I still think Aloratom is scum.

I was asking for players (mostly you) to consolidate on one of the two wagons. I may have preferred one over the other, but at the end of the day we lynched scum.

Besides do you serously think scum spends all their time trying to shut down the counter wagon to chemist and not bus.

Maybe not, and I've already said I think scum bussed, but I'm not sure if both scum bussed. Your end of day play was weird either way.

[bob3141]

now i doubt wake is scum. Who as scum outs that they are a pr after just finding 2 pr. Rather than simply taking them out one by one at night in secret. now based off that

tictac (4): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, t, t
Aloratom (2): s, davesaz

-----

Chemist1422 (4): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii
Aloratom (4): Chemist1422, davesaz, AaronFrost, Wake88

---------
Chemist1422 (5): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii, HoldenGolden
Aloratom (4): s, davesaz, AaronFrost, t

--------

Chemist1422 (7): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii, HoldenGolden, Aloratom, t
Aloratom (4): s, davesaz, AaronFrost, t

[AaronFrost]

Oh, 614 came after 557 lul. I think he does believe his reasoning in that post though.

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I'm not so sure he believes it and it felt opportunistic, but I also might be biased a bit.

[bob3141]

Why did you choose alort over chemist?

You were pushing players to consolidate onto your lynch.

Because I had a read on alort and I didn't have a read on chemist, and I still think Aloratom is scum.

I was asking for players (mostly you) to consolidate on one of the two wagons. I may have preferred one over the other, but at the end of the day we lynched scum.

Besides do you serously think scum spends all their time trying to shut down the counter wagon to chemist and not bus.

Maybe not, and I've already said I think scum bussed, but I'm not sure if both scum bussed. Your end of day play was weird either way.

i had been up since 6am and my last posts was at 2am.

I wanted to see who would follow up on scum read on dave. Voting chemist overall does not give town any more info.

Sicne no takers it makes it highly unlikely that alort is scum. Do you not think that if it was alort and chemist that scum doesnt try and jump on the dave wagon. All we had was you expressing that you felt dave came of worse

[bob3141]

now takign account that i just dont think alort is scum

tictac (4): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, t, t
Aloratom (2): s, davesaz

-----

Chemist1422 (4): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii
Aloratom (4): Chemist1422, davesaz, AaronFrost, Wake88

---------
Chemist1422 (5): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii, HoldenGolden
Aloratom (4): s, davesaz, AaronFrost, t

--------

Chemist1422 (7): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii, HoldenGolden, t, t
Aloratom (4): s, davesaz, AaronFrost, t

[davesaz]

Aloratom voted you and was evasive on why.
Being evasive on why you voted someone, especially during RVS, is suspicious.
You seemed to be trying to ignore that this was happening.
When I asked you about it, you said "he votes people for no reason as scum" but conveniently ignored the fact he had voted you for no reason.
Only after I asked a followup, you realized that it had been a logical inconsistency. So you now tried to brush off the initial vote as RVS -- but if you realized that was the case then why try to explain it away differently in the previous question.

Neither of you are giving what I would call straightforward answers, when asked what you're thinking.
You're attacking me, when the logic of what I'm pushing is very straightforward. It's perfectly fine if you don't agree with it, even better if you can give a cohesive answer on why it's wrong, not so much that you try to dismiss it as being nothing.

@Aloratom, the above was an answer to Bob on why I thought he is scum, who you tried to signal to as traitor. It's exactly the same reasoning that led me to think you're traitor in the first place. I'll rephrase it in those terms.

Alo votes Bob in RVS timeframe and says it's serious in the post.
When asked about why it's serious, he tries to push the question off on Bob.
When asked again, he again tries to push the question off.
Then later finally admits it was RVS.

RVS timeframe voting for someone who is "definite scum" is a traitor tell.
Failing to immediately say "yo dude RVS joke, why don't you get this?" when asked about it <twice!!> is evasive and reinforces the tell.
Not doing it to all the scum is a <relatively smart> traitor tell.

Furthermore your behavior toward the tictac/Chemist wagon reeks of knowing it's scum, trying to divert the lynch to literally anyone else, and then finally giving in to the bus at the end. Especially calling the slot scummy but refusing to vote it when you were the leading wagon. Town!you should immediately vote the highest scum wagon, over letting yourself be the top wagon.

[bob3141]

now does scum holden vote chemist at that point breaking the tie.

Also does scum put all their eggs in one counter basket. Waka town implies taht for all 3 scum to be pushing a counter wagon it would have to be chemist, aaron and dave. Which i feel is unlikely

Maybe one at most of dave and aaron might be scum. Cant see them both being scum

[Aloratom]

@Aloratom, the above was an answer to Bob on why I thought he is scum, who you tried to signal to as traitor. It's exactly the same reasoning that led me to think you're traitor in the first place. I'll rephrase it in those terms.

Alo votes Bob in RVS timeframe and says it's serious in the post.
When asked about why it's serious, he tries to push the question off on Bob.
When asked again, he again tries to push the question off.
Then later finally admits it was RVS.

RVS timeframe voting for someone who is "definite scum" is a traitor tell.
Failing to immediately say "yo dude RVS joke, why don't you get this?" when asked about it is evasive and reinforces the tell.
Not doing it to all the scum is a <relatively smart> traitor tell.

I'm guessing that actually is a pretty good traitor play. Thank you for the compliment.

Furthermore your behavior toward the tictac/Chemist wagon reeks of knowing it's scum, trying to divert the lynch to literally anyone else, and then finally giving in to the bus at the end. Especially calling the slot scummy but refusing to vote it when you were the leading wagon. Town!you should immediately vote the highest scum wagon, over letting yourself be the top wagon.

I thought I had cleared that up. I didn't want to vote tictac as a lurker policy lynch. I didn't know how many votes they had at the time, but it was quite a few -- at least three of the last handful of posts preceding mine had voted there. I didn't oppose pressuring the slot for activity, and it seemed there were enough votes there to do that. I didn't have scum read until near end of day. You can call it a bus all you want, but that doesn't make it true. I asked Chemist twice if they were going to leave the RVS vote on me, and I didn't get a response. Then, when Chemist said they weren't moving the vote, that sealed it, and I moved my vote to them. Again. Not a bus. You can talk about what Town!Dave would have done all you want, but I'm telling you what Town!Aloratom did.

[Aloratom]

Oh, 614 came after 557 lul. I think he does believe his reasoning in that post though.

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even if it was posted after the fact

[HoldenGolden]

That's kinda why I feel chem intentionally didnt say anything to avoid draw associations one way or another, faking the reading on Alo entirely. The main question now is rather or not it was done to shade alo upon flipping red, or to prevent more analysis linking to two together today.

I

'm kinda feeling like if Chem is scum and Alo is town, he tries to push Alo a little bit more in order to save himself.

Chem didn't really try too hard to save himself so either he thought there was just no point bc he thought he'd get lynched or he felt disassociated enough from his partners that he was fine with going down.

That's my issue. Chem as scum should of at least tried to push something on town!alo rather than laying down and taking the lynch without voicing any concrete reads. Now that I know he can produce content as scum when replacing into an suspicious slot, I am back pondering if the wagons were SvS.

In any case, I feel I am going to ponder this particular point too much and end up circling around in what is speculation of what scum! chem would do. Do you think trying to crack this idea is worthwhile? I've been thinking inbetween writing a paper outline about it and keep coming to some different conclusions.

[HoldenGolden]

Also keep in mind that sircake was a enabler @posts like profi.

What does this mean?

Profli made a post outlining a potential set up and did not included sircake as an pr enabler which I would debate affects set-up speculation (as if sircake can claim it and make it function as a discount named VT given the role's nature) .

I don't think set up speculation itself is quite useful now, but if people are going to attempt it, it should factor in stuff like that.

[bob3141]

look at his wagon in 2119. It was t v s in that one.

And he ended up getting lynched. He pushed harder but much more. Never said why he agreed looker was scum in that game. With him just giving a serous of catchup scum read lists

[Adorable]

Chemist claimed and then he disappears for 3 days. Why did he not interact with other players and figure out who the scum are rather than giving up? Town should fight for their lynch figuring out who is scum and Chemist disappearing like that this is the kind of play I always find suspicious.

Chemist already flipped tho so

Who specifically do you think he was avoiding interactions with?

Holden pretty much said this and I think this is what Chemist wanted to do. It looked like Chemist didn't want to provide any associative information during day 1 when he gets lynched. If Chemist did started giving out reads and interacting with anyone, then there would have been some hints for us to work with figuring out who his scum buddies could be.

[HoldenGolden]

Why did you choose alort over chemist?

You were pushing players to consolidate onto your lynch.

Because I had a read on alort and I didn't have a read on chemist, and I still think Aloratom is scum.

I was asking for players (mostly you) to consolidate on one of the two wagons. I may have preferred one over the other, but at the end of the day we lynched scum.

Besides do you serously think scum spends all their time trying to shut down the counter wagon to chemist and not bus.

Maybe not, and I've already said I think scum bussed, but I'm not sure if both scum bussed. Your end of day play was weird either way.

i had been up since 6am and my last posts was at 2am.

I wanted to see who would follow up on scum read on dave. Voting chemist overall does not give town any more info.

Sicne no takers it makes it highly unlikely that alort is scum. Do you not think that if it was alort and chemist that scum doesnt try and jump on the dave wagon. All we had was you expressing that you felt dave came of worse

The thing was though that I made it very clear that atleast I was going to stop any none alo/chem lynch

Oh, you're saying you don't want to lynch Misty because even as scum he doesn't give much info. Interesting approach but I still think it has a higher likelihood than anything so best lynch.

Wait, I need to check if Gamma's posted since last time.

If chemist is scum then its one scum although might want to avoid losing are goign to be happy bus. What they are not goign to be ahhpy with is the prospect of having to bus another partner. Losing their partner and still be sadled with lurker partner.

See who other players refuse to scum read. See who they dont want day two.

Even if you still lynch the lurker slot

You learn more if its flips scum or town

i would say the odds are 50:50 on chemist. still better than 75:25.

(I'm combining the this post and the one above into my response)

But they seemingly have already said what they wanted on Alo which is the null read. Scum!chem has no reason to really strive off the wagon and town!chem is apperently not motivated to dive into the game regardless. I highly doubt they will move their vote at all given how short of a time we have left.

I'm not sure what you are aguring with the lynch? You are saying dont lynch chem yet chem is 50/50 in your eyes. Alo should be town read by you in some degree given the fact you feel dave is scum here. That means you dont want either of the top lynches, yet are proposing that one is still good?

We arent lynching dave today. It's not because of the fact that I find him highly townie (my own read over time has fallen down), but because we have little time to move an entire wagon over frankly. You need 6 people to favor their lynch over the question mark which is chem and alo. We get more info out of lynching chem then dave by far, let alone not lynching them to "sandbag the mafia team"?

Seriously? You want to leave town a huge source of uncertainty to "potentially" sandbag mafia when you only are 50/50% sure? So 50% of the time your plan fails and now town has to spend another day cycle clearing one of alo/chem?

You also didnt answer my question about Wake it seems.

Are you factoring in the fact that people were actively shutting down your dave lynch when applying your logic of scum trying to drive that wagon to save chem?

Im sorta of confused with your overall read atm

[HoldenGolden]

Chemist claimed and then he disappears for 3 days. Why did he not interact with other players and figure out who the scum are rather than giving up? Town should fight for their lynch figuring out who is scum and Chemist disappearing like that this is the kind of play I always find suspicious.

Chemist already flipped tho so

Who specifically do you think he was avoiding interactions with?

Holden pretty much said this and I think this is what Chemist wanted to do. It looked like Chemist didn't want to provide any associative information during day 1 when he gets lynched. If Chemist did started giving out reads and interacting with anyone, then there would have been some hints for us to work with figuring out who his scum buddies could be.

What do you make of bob here and on day 1? Do you think his logic makes sense and you agree with it, it doesn't make sense, or somewhere inbetween?
What are your stances towards people not name chem?
Would you eat a cooked llama burger?

[Hectic]

Fair point, Adorable. Do you have any suspicions on players at the moment? How do you feel about joining Morning and I on pressuring Gamma?

[HoldenGolden, Gamma Emerald, profii, Adorable, davesaz, Morning, bob3141]

Primes.

[Hectic]

Would you eat a cooked llama burger?

[HoldenGolden]

Would you eat a cooked llama burger?

What?! She may enjoy the good taste of a thick juicy slab of cooked llama goodness, smothered between a freshly pick sheet of lettuce, hand peeled onions, melted cheese, and two big wholesome wheat buns?

I'm going to propose modding a mini flavored around 101 ways to cook a llama. My gift to you and MT

[Hectic]

I would join that game, but only to raise awareness of your horrific actions against humanity and to form a save-the-llamas-coalition. I think lynching naysayers would be more important than lynching scum in that game. Back me up here, Morning.

[Morning Tweet]

Would you eat a cooked llama burger?

What?! She may enjoy the good taste of a thick juicy slab of cooked llama goodness, smothered between a freshly pick sheet of lettuce, hand peeled onions, melted cheese, and two big wholesome wheat buns?

I'm going to propose modding a mini flavored around 101 ways to cook a llama. My gift to you and MT

I would join that game, but only to raise awareness of your horrific actions against humanity and to form a save-the-llamas-coalition. I think lynching naysayers would be more important than lynching scum in that game. Back me up here, Morning.

i will join it if it comes to be, but know that I'm appalled by your imagery and you should feel bad ノ;﹏;ノ

@bob

, what's the conclusion you have from the analysis you're doing?

and adorable, are you saying this points to town!Alo or scum!Alo? I'm sorry if im missing the bottom line of what you're saying. So Chem left to avoid forming any associatives because she thought that her lynch was inevitable. I think this is likely, yes. but are you deducing anything other than just that observation?

[profii]

Oh, Aaron

VOTE: AaronFrost

Sorry you rolled scum. I caught you though

[profii]

Out of interest - @Bob - who in this player list has the most respect for your scum hunting skills?