Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Blake Belladonna]

I'm undecided on Drixx, I see where you guys are coming from and those posts pinged me too, but I liked his early stuff so idk :/

Why?

[Blake Belladonna]

Something is fundamentally off with this game. The Drixx and Elsa Jay wagons were both wagons that I could reasonably see in a standard game based on how it was progressed so far. However, the Battle Mage and Vecna wagons were both unnatural, especially the Vecna one.

My townread on Hectic is dwindling, and I distinctly do not have a townread on Morning Tweet whereas I feel like I should by now. However, my read on Davesaz as a player makes it unlikely that he is scum if Morning Tweet is scum.

Beyond this, I have mostly townreads.

[Vecna]

Hey guys, fuck off of me. I don't really play D1, and it's a shitty reason to suspect them. This isn't 2012 where LAL is all the rage. I have a consistent track record of being godawful shit when I tryhard D1, and a much better track record when I skip it and wait for the initial dumbfuckery to die down. I can provide numerous examples of this meta if need be.

Because Cakez is insisting that I provide content instead of just proddodging through D1, I will skim the last 5-10 pages and find a decent vote to put down.

This is a complete and utter fabrication btw.

Last time I saw Pine try he had the game nearly solved day1 in his hood

[Vecna]

Besides GuiltyLion, I don't find anyone SUPER SCUMMY right now. I have some townreads...and that's it. If we have to compromise and lynch a player we all feel neutral towards, like Pine, it's better than no lynch or dragging a day to the point everyone is bored and annoyed and wants to quit. So I'm voting GuiltyLion, if that doesn't work, I'm OK to vote out Pine if he doesn't do anything, because I legit don't know who has a high possibility of flipping scum here. Maybe Vecna?

@Vecna

Keep in mind I haven't played in 3+ years. I don't remember much about previous games.

I don't agree with gl or venca reads. Id go danny, his response does not give me warm fuzzies, drixx, bm, george, davez or xtoxm.
I have a few null reads but its too early for this kind of attitude

IDanny had those two posts that barely ever come from scum.

Imo, scum dont think along the lines of talking about hood flavour matching their future fakeclaims and already start preparing town to play to oppose that. Like a true mastermind might have made a plan to abuse that and flip the logic, but iDanny doesnt really strike me as the RC type of player.

This just appeared to me as genuine town logic and everyone interpreted it completely wrong.

[Vecna]

A50 and MT also posting elsewhere on site.

Good for you to notice. Did you also notice I posted in here less than two hours before your post??

Regardless of him missing that, I think actually going to look up players and venting about it is usually town indicative

[farside22]

Besides GuiltyLion, I don't find anyone SUPER SCUMMY right now. I have some townreads...and that's it. If we have to compromise and lynch a player we all feel neutral towards, like Pine, it's better than no lynch or dragging a day to the point everyone is bored and annoyed and wants to quit. So I'm voting GuiltyLion, if that doesn't work, I'm OK to vote out Pine if he doesn't do anything, because I legit don't know who has a high possibility of flipping scum here. Maybe Vecna?

@Vecna

Keep in mind I haven't played in 3+ years. I don't remember much about previous games.

I don't agree with gl or venca reads. Id go danny, his response does not give me warm fuzzies, drixx, bm, george, davez or xtoxm.
I have a few null reads but its too early for this kind of attitude

IDanny had those two posts that barely ever come from scum.

Imo, scum dont think along the lines of talking about hood flavour matching their future fakeclaims and already start preparing town to play to oppose that. Like a true mastermind might have made a plan to abuse that and flip the logic, but iDanny doesnt really strike me as the RC type of player.

This just appeared to me as genuine town logic and everyone interpreted it completely wrong.

You maybe right. I had a town read on Danny early on. I thought his reasoning for changing his read on EJ is just weak.
I think with Pine it isn't really alignment inductive. It's bee awhile since I played with him but I recall he lurked once upon a time. Don't hold me on that. I don't really want to research everyone's meta unless I'm suspicious of them. Which is why my vote hasn't moved off of BM.
He's a bit less nice of a player and all the ass kissery is really not something he does. (yes that is my weird reason)

[Drixx]

I am caught up.

BBMolla is town.
Hectic is town.
GeorgeBailey is town.
farside is town.
Battle Mage is town.
Almost50 is town.

Xtoxm is likely town, although I will need more to lock this in like the above.
GuiltyLion can be town for right now. I place a low confidence on this read and believe I will have better luck refining this read over time.
Vecna is likely town.
momo is likely town.
VaultDweller is likely town.

Pine, Morning Tweet, Albert B. Rampage, davesaz, pisskop, and iDanyboy are slots I feel unsure about in one direction or another.

Elsa Jay is a scumread, albeit one I place no confidence in. I would likely only wagon this as a compromise.
Gamma Emerald is a scumread, albeit this is a gut read.

Drixx is scum.

VOTE: Drixx

You decided to point out that your GE read is a "gut" read, which implies the ones you didn't label that way have reasoning. Please provide said reasoning. For me especially.

This should be good.

Your push onto Battle Mage initially was fine, but the way you stretched it into a multi-page monstrosity over something that draws the eye as something that isn't particularly noteworthy isn't genuine. Based on this combined with Albert B. Rampage's reads and the way you've been treating him this game, I do not see this as a town approach to the game.

Go look at Wake's 50 player that was called off recently. You can find it by looking in my profile. Look at my interaction with KM. Then decide whether that's genuine or not.

[Blake Belladonna]

I am caught up.

BBMolla is town.
Hectic is town.
GeorgeBailey is town.
farside is town.
Battle Mage is town.
Almost50 is town.

Xtoxm is likely town, although I will need more to lock this in like the above.
GuiltyLion can be town for right now. I place a low confidence on this read and believe I will have better luck refining this read over time.
Vecna is likely town.
momo is likely town.
VaultDweller is likely town.

Pine, Morning Tweet, Albert B. Rampage, davesaz, pisskop, and iDanyboy are slots I feel unsure about in one direction or another.

Elsa Jay is a scumread, albeit one I place no confidence in. I would likely only wagon this as a compromise.
Gamma Emerald is a scumread, albeit this is a gut read.

Drixx is scum.

VOTE: Drixx

You decided to point out that your GE read is a "gut" read, which implies the ones you didn't label that way have reasoning. Please provide said reasoning. For me especially.

This should be good.

Your push onto Battle Mage initially was fine, but the way you stretched it into a multi-page monstrosity over something that draws the eye as something that isn't particularly noteworthy isn't genuine. Based on this combined with Albert B. Rampage's reads and the way you've been treating him this game, I do not see this as a town approach to the game.

Go look at Wake's 50 player that was called off recently. You can find it by looking in my profile. Look at my interaction with KM. Then decide whether that's genuine or not.

What is your precise conclusion with this post?

[Drixx]

ABR mostly gets a pass from me for the first couple days in a game. This is from bitter experience of what happens if we're both town and I pick up a false positive on him. He gets re-evaluated every couple days real time, more often if something prompts it, and if and when I have a case that I think is strong enough to be worth the inevitable clash in the game that will come of it, then I'll post it.

We all have the people we just would rather not go down those roads with unless we're certain. If you say you don't, you either have very little experience with this or you're lying.

[Drixx]

I am caught up.

BBMolla is town.
Hectic is town.
GeorgeBailey is town.
farside is town.
Battle Mage is town.
Almost50 is town.

Xtoxm is likely town, although I will need more to lock this in like the above.
GuiltyLion can be town for right now. I place a low confidence on this read and believe I will have better luck refining this read over time.
Vecna is likely town.
momo is likely town.
VaultDweller is likely town.

Pine, Morning Tweet, Albert B. Rampage, davesaz, pisskop, and iDanyboy are slots I feel unsure about in one direction or another.

Elsa Jay is a scumread, albeit one I place no confidence in. I would likely only wagon this as a compromise.
Gamma Emerald is a scumread, albeit this is a gut read.

Drixx is scum.

VOTE: Drixx

You decided to point out that your GE read is a "gut" read, which implies the ones you didn't label that way have reasoning. Please provide said reasoning. For me especially.

This should be good.

Your push onto Battle Mage initially was fine, but the way you stretched it into a multi-page monstrosity over something that draws the eye as something that isn't particularly noteworthy isn't genuine. Based on this combined with Albert B. Rampage's reads and the way you've been treating him this game, I do not see this as a town approach to the game.

Go look at Wake's 50 player that was called off recently. You can find it by looking in my profile. Look at my interaction with KM. Then decide whether that's genuine or not.

What is your precise conclusion with this post?

Your premise is that I wouldn't genuinely have gone back and forth with Vecna the way I did. I'm pointing you to literally the most recent game where I did precisely the same thing with a similar starting point ... and caught scum (although they got killed at night because they waged a relentless campaign of shitting on me the rest of day one).

So your premise fails, at least when applied to me in particular.

Update your priors.

[Blake Belladonna]

That is not the type of answer I was looking for, though I understand the confusion.

What is the precise conclusion you are expecting me to reach?

-Blake

[Drixx]

That is not the type of answer I was looking for, though I understand the confusion.

What is the precise conclusion you are expecting me to reach?

-Blake

Just reassess. If you have some other reason to think I'm scum, then rock on with your bad self. If it was solely feeling that I was making a show and wasn't actually genuinely pushing ... then you have strong evidence to contradict your thinking.

I'll evaluate the rest of the answers you gave after I sleep. Was a draining shift tonight.

[Pine]

Hey guys, fuck off of me. I don't really play D1, and it's a shitty reason to suspect them. This isn't 2012 where LAL is all the rage. I have a consistent track record of being godawful shit when I tryhard D1, and a much better track record when I skip it and wait for the initial dumbfuckery to die down. I can provide numerous examples of this meta if need be.

Because Cakez is insisting that I provide content instead of just proddodging through D1, I will skim the last 5-10 pages and find a decent vote to put down.

This is a complete and utter fabrication btw.

Last time I saw Pine try he had the game nearly solved day1 in his hood

What the hell are you talking about? The Search? That was a bizarre and off-meta game, where I was a Lyncher who suspected my target was scum, and one of the other scumteam literally outed himself to us in our neighborhood. Finding the third was trivial at that point.

Holy shit, that cherry-picking is disingenuous as fuck.

[Blake Belladonna]

That is not the type of answer I was looking for, though I understand the confusion.

What is the precise conclusion you are expecting me to reach?

-Blake

Just reassess. If you have some other reason to think I'm scum, then rock on with your bad self. If it was solely feeling that I was making a show and wasn't actually genuinely pushing ... then you have strong evidence to contradict your thinking.

I'll evaluate the rest of the answers you gave after I sleep. Was a draining shift tonight.

This answers what I was looking for.

Last question from me. Do you know my identity?

[momo]

Hey guys, fuck off of me. I don't really play D1, and it's a shitty reason to suspect them. This isn't 2012 where LAL is all the rage. I have a consistent track record of being godawful shit when I tryhard D1, and a much better track record when I skip it and wait for the initial dumbfuckery to die down. I can provide numerous examples of this meta if need be.

Because Cakez is insisting that I provide content instead of just proddodging through D1, I will skim the last 5-10 pages and find a decent vote to put down.

This is a complete and utter fabrication btw.

Last time I saw Pine try he had the game nearly solved day1 in his hood

What the hell are you talking about? The Search? That was a bizarre and off-meta game, where I was a Lyncher who suspected my target was scum, and one of the other scumteam literally outed himself to us in our neighborhood. Finding the third was trivial at that point.

Holy shit, that cherry-picking is disingenuous as fuck.

This is big if true. Can someone link that game?

Also, I apologize for my relative lack of content the last couple days. It's a lot harder to post during the week than on weekends.

[Pine]

the search and the Bandit neighborhood

Penguin and I Townread one another, guessed (correctly) that one of our number was scum, then offered the scum a Faustian deal of helping him fulfill his secondary wincon if he would roll on his buddies. It worked, and we broke the game.

[Pine]

Vecna wasn’t in that game unless it was an alt, so I don’t know what he’s talking about. I usually regard neighborhoods with thinly-veiled contempt and largely ignore them - much as I’m doing with both of the hoods I’m in this game.

[farside22]

Vecna wasn’t in that game unless it was an alt, so I don’t know what he’s talking about. I usually regard neighborhoods with thinly-veiled contempt and largely ignore them - much as I’m doing with both of the hoods I’m in this game.

Your in more the one hood?

[Pine]

I don’t think I - nope, I didn’t stutter.

[Vecna]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=80685

this was the game I was talking about Pine. You should probably just take it as a compliment if youre town buddy. You had some pretty good reads d1 already and got nkd n2

[Pine]

I got one scum and was wrong about the others, and kuribo did the heavy lifting on that. That's a pretty far cry from what you're talking about. Further, I lurked the shit out of that game because I despise D1. It actually kind of proves my point.

Okay, this settles my anxiety about you - you're not distorting the truth to make a false point, you're just misinterpreting the facts.

[Pine]

And I was killed N2 because I was essentially confirmed Town due to leading a lynch on scum D2 after spotting a scumslip.

[Blake Belladonna]

I got one scum and was wrong about the others, and kuribo did the heavy lifting on that. That's a pretty far cry from what you're talking about. Further, I lurked the shit out of that game because I despise D1. It actually kind of proves my point.

Okay, this settles my anxiety about you - you're not distorting the truth to make a false point, you're just misinterpreting the facts.

If there's one thing that had been made abundantly clear to me over the years, it's that you can't ever expect interpretations of any one player's play to match across different players.

[Blake Belladonna]

I feel sympathy towards Vecna this game, the way people have been reading his slot looks eerily similar to the games where I get heavily scumread as town.

[Pine]

I've seen Vecna as scum, and been scum trying to frame him. I think this might be our first T+T game I can remember, and I'm kind of excited for it.