Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Drixx]

I don’t think I - nope, I didn’t stutter.

I was just surprised.

So fun fact I looked at the game Drixx referenced and he did fight with a player that was scum. He voted and kept his vote on that player and from what I saw he did say a player was scum helping there buddy (I didn't see if the player was that players buddy) but all that said there are differences.
Most important was the case on Venca was built on something that didn't occur and Drixx hasn't really followed up pushing the scum read with anything really valid.
So it didn't change my view on Drixx in this game.

*looks at time left in day for game*

I can wait.

It's

almost

as if Drixx were a real live human being who changes over time, and he realized that how he went about things in that instance wasn't ideal and so he adjusted.

I mean ... that's one hypothesis anyway.

So you bring up the same to show similarities about fighting but anything else is saying you changed.

Lovely.

I would suggest that I made far less of a fuss this game, and I have been way less aggressive.

But you know ... over generalizations are awesome too.

[GeorgeBailey]

VOTE: BBMolla

I like this a lot better than the dave wagon tbh, same with Pine.

I don't really like his ABR and Idany push. I think they both seem really opportunistic.

[BBmolla]

You’re wrong but okay

[BBmolla]

I would argue your vote on me is more opportunistic than both of mine

[Xtoxm]

Six scumreads is just BEGGING for scum to throw one or two buddies into the mix and then push four or five wagons. It's not rational or productive, and I refuse to indulge the question further.

PE: If you don't scumread someone but would be good lynching them, then you're a detriment to the game and should be a D1 policy lynch. This is not Russian Roulette, and we are not penguins shoving each other around on the ice floe until one of us falls in to confirm that there's a leopard seal down there.

lmao
pine is town

[Morning Tweet]

Six scumreads is just BEGGING for scum to throw one or two buddies into the mix and then push four or five wagons. It's not rational or productive, and I refuse to indulge the question further.

PE: If you don't scumread someone but would be good lynching them, then you're a detriment to the game and should be a D1 policy lynch. This is not Russian Roulette, and we are not penguins shoving each other around on the ice floe until one of us falls in to confirm that there's a leopard seal down there.

lmao
pine is town

he's certainly right about scumreading at least. i think opposing ABR's wagon logic is a protown move, but i can see scum doing it too pretty much for that reason

[Vecna]

What he's obviously trying to say is.....dave will act poorly under pressure, resulting in a wagon that gathers steam on the slot to nearly become a self-fullfilling prophecy with very high chances of resulting in dave's lynch.

tldr: poor response, even more "lol u mad" votes -> lynch

That makes sense, but my problem with it is like, what happens when we scumread dave-- how are we supposed to lynch him then?

am i hiding in the background?

I think so

(´-ω-`)

pedit: I can agree with u on that at least, idk how people came up with an alignment for him already

He just said to be careful and not misinterpret overreactions from the slot.

Proceed however you like

[Vecna]

I got a townread on Pine out of the last few pages

a few people are asking about BM case - I feel his engagement with a lot of early game content was super light and perhaps it's due to his V/LA but he seemed to stop being involved as soon as the actual game picked up - this is a patten I see from scum often. At the time of me voting him I believed two of the other main bandwagons (Vecna and myself) were bad wagons, and I had just re-evaluated on danyBoy (the other, other wagon, which I had been pushing), so the BM votes felt to me like the best chance to follow along and find scum.

Funny enough Drixx is one of those slots for me that he was referring to as "you don't like going down that road unless you're sure", I def agree he's been overdramatic and making things more about himself than they actually are or need to be, but that's my experience of how he plays regardless of alignment, and I don't know if anything I've seen has felt like it moved the needle on him being more likely to be scum. It does feel weird that he's avoiding the BM wagon especially after I reversed my read on him, but I almost feel scum!Drixx would see it as easy to hop onto a town!BM by this point and not take that route, so either they're scum together or Drixx is townie for that.

MT bleeding town for me by this point. I'd also join a davesaz wagon.
p-edit: let's do it

VOTE: davesaz

Lion, youre a champ at putting quite a few of my feelings into words.

Im really waffling on Drixx. On the one hand, his response to me was very surface level bad. But Drixx is not a surface level player, and I could also see town act frustrated when others only react to the part of your wagon that did have a hole in it and ignore the rest (the rest that was pretty small though). If he really felt we were torpedoing his questioning of BM, then why not just tell us to fuck off and continue it? Portraying me as scummy instead and going on that crusade is still a bit weird. Its also how I caught his hydra in civ Mafia, although there his reaction was a lot more aggressive and over the top still.

Dave for me feels different, like (dont get triggered momo), every game I play with him these days. So different from 1-2+ years ago. I really do not think I can read him at all.

Xtomx is also really going down-down-down on my readslist. I thought this was gonna be a game where I could townread him, but there really was zero followup with substance.

Just nit picking here but... didn't I play solo in Civ mafia, and only for like ... part of day one? My brain says that I went into that game coming off SU2, and I got put onto a scum team with Mastina, which I tried to make work but given how the end of SU2 went, I felt like it was bad for me to stay in the game. So I replaced out.

So umm... maybe link me what you're talking about?

It was the day1a discussion about what wonder to build for the game

I mean ... I replaced out super early and my slot never got lynched. I guess you hang your hat where you can but if you 'caught' me, why didn't you get me lynched?

You should ask that to abr

[Vecna]

Also, I like Pine here, but im definitely not townreading pine like some of you.

[Albert B. Rampage]

What is your thoughts on ABR's reason for town reading you?

I don't townread EJ.

[farside22]

What is your thoughts on ABR's reason for town reading you?

I don't townread EJ.

Sorry your right. You didn't want to for her for voting GL, even though it wasn't because of a scum read.
That make less sense logic to me.

@Drixx: I'm not going to have a quote war on the subject. Simply put you stopped once players called it scummy and since then you have been defending the reason because of that game.

[Drixx]

What is your thoughts on ABR's reason for town reading you?

I don't townread EJ.

Sorry your right. You didn't want to for her for voting GL, even though it wasn't because of a scum read.
That make less sense logic to me.

@Drixx: I'm not going to have a quote war on the subject. Simply put you stopped once players called it scummy and since then you have been defending the reason because of that game.

I mean ... think what you want. Your scum equity keeps rising as you continue to try and insist that !reality is reality though. I'm not nearly invested enough to think I'm going to endgame, so there's going to come a time when I flip.

Consider this my dying request, whenever I die:

Remember farside (who has a lengthy history with me and I think respects my ability to employ rationalism to solve mafia games) insisted on putting an irrational line of argument.

I don't see any reason to take it further than that. I'm incredibly unlikely to eat rope today, and you know that. So ... humor me and pretend you believe I'm town and talk to me about some things that caught your interest that you think I would benefit from taking a look at. Engage me with some convo about the actual game instead of whether or not it's plausible that town!Drixx (who recently came back to site) is experimenting with different day 1 things, because his day 1 play has always been awful.

Like ... you're not gonna get me roped today, so if you

really

think I'm scum, engage and see if you can get me to go on the record about lots of things.

Like ... that's how to play the game. Don't fall to the meme lords.

~D

P.S. - I genuinely love being in games with you, and I hope you know that my affection is genuine, even when I'm frustrating you.

[Drixx]

Like ... ask Cerb. You're one of our top-x favorite people.

[Drixx]

Vecna wasn’t in that game unless it was an alt, so I don’t know what he’s talking about. I usually regard neighborhoods with thinly-veiled contempt and largely ignore them - much as I’m doing with both of the hoods I’m in this game.

Both, eh? Have you posted in both?

[Vecna]

Yeah, I have no problems with the drixx wagon dying at this point

[farside22]

Spoiler:

What is your thoughts on ABR's reason for town reading you?

I don't townread EJ.

Sorry your right. You didn't want to for her for voting GL, even though it wasn't because of a scum read.
That make less sense logic to me.

@Drixx: I'm not going to have a quote war on the subject. Simply put you stopped once players called it scummy and since then you have been defending the reason because of that game.

I mean ... think what you want. Your scum equity keeps rising as you continue to try and insist that !reality is reality though. I'm not nearly invested enough to think I'm going to endgame, so there's going to come a time when I flip.

Consider this my dying request, whenever I die:

Remember farside (who has a lengthy history with me and I think respects my ability to employ rationalism to solve mafia games) insisted on putting an irrational line of argument.

I don't see any reason to take it further than that. I'm incredibly unlikely to eat rope today, and you know that. So ... humor me and pretend you believe I'm town and talk to me about some things that caught your interest that you think I would benefit from taking a look at. Engage me with some convo about the actual game instead of whether or not it's plausible that town!Drixx (who recently came back to site) is experimenting with different day 1 things, because his day 1 play has always been awful.

Like ... you're not gonna get me roped today, so if you

really

think I'm scum, engage and see if you can get me to go on the record about lots of things.

Like ... that's how to play the game. Don't fall to the meme lords.

~D

P.S. - I genuinely love being in games with you, and I hope you know that my affection is genuine, even when I'm frustrating you.

@drixx: i am a bit frustrated with you. You went on a tangent, dropped your read on bm to attack venca and at this point i have no clue whom your scum reads are.
I personally would love the bm wagon to get back on.

VOTE: bm

[Drixx]

Spoiler:

What is your thoughts on ABR's reason for town reading you?

I don't townread EJ.

Sorry your right. You didn't want to for her for voting GL, even though it wasn't because of a scum read.
That make less sense logic to me.

@Drixx: I'm not going to have a quote war on the subject. Simply put you stopped once players called it scummy and since then you have been defending the reason because of that game.

I mean ... think what you want. Your scum equity keeps rising as you continue to try and insist that !reality is reality though. I'm not nearly invested enough to think I'm going to endgame, so there's going to come a time when I flip.

Consider this my dying request, whenever I die:

Remember farside (who has a lengthy history with me and I think respects my ability to employ rationalism to solve mafia games) insisted on putting an irrational line of argument.

I don't see any reason to take it further than that. I'm incredibly unlikely to eat rope today, and you know that. So ... humor me and pretend you believe I'm town and talk to me about some things that caught your interest that you think I would benefit from taking a look at. Engage me with some convo about the actual game instead of whether or not it's plausible that town!Drixx (who recently came back to site) is experimenting with different day 1 things, because his day 1 play has always been awful.

Like ... you're not gonna get me roped today, so if you

really

think I'm scum, engage and see if you can get me to go on the record about lots of things.

Like ... that's how to play the game. Don't fall to the meme lords.

~D

P.S. - I genuinely love being in games with you, and I hope you know that my affection is genuine, even when I'm frustrating you.

@drixx: i am a bit frustrated with you. You went on a tangent, dropped your read on bm to attack venca and at this point i have no clue whom your scum reads are.
I personally would love the bm wagon to get back on.

VOTE: bm

I actually feel like my original reason for voting BM is still valid. It's just that a large enough group of active people showed up to express a town read. Too many to assume it's scum white knighting. And BM got a pass from responding to me apparently. (As did Hectic).

[Hectic]

Detective "Detectic" Detective here. Putting on a second monocle for this post.

302: Why hello there, Drixx. I don't use private PTs/notes. Everyone above the dashes were town in some capacity, everyone below was scum in some capacity.

310: Did you ever explain the gut scumread on Gamma, Guilty Lion? I thought he'd been pretty transparently town up till this point.

Yeah, Drixx not looking at the front page whether it was just a copy of the playerlist is kinda.....yikes

Yeah, Drixx not looking at the front page whether it was just a copy of the playerlist is kinda.....yikes

Ninja'd me here on my last post but this completely.

Why? Wouldn't scum!him have more reason to suspect it's a joke than town!him?

321, 322, and 323 are pretty bad world-building from Drixx though. You can't just go assuming everyone who disliked that is scum.

I'll split this up into watchtowers rather than posting one skyscraper.

[Drixx]

I'd like a bit more than that. You took the time to separate out specific people. Just the things that produced their spot as townie or scummie would be useful. Thx.

[Hectic]

If you're a townie, you see Drixx open up about not knowing the player list in his PT on page 1, and you're not in any hood yourself and not curious at all about his post to comment on it...I find that suspicious.

Scumreads: Guilty Lion, Vecna, Xtoxm, BBmolla

3 have claimed not to be in a hood: A50, BBmolla, Xtoxm,

Guilty Lion

.

For sure there's scum outside the PTs. Probably 1 scum in each PT and 2 outside of it if there are 3 PTs. Statistically, our best bet is to lynch inside [A50, BBmolla, Xtoxm, Guilty Lion] today.

This is bad. You're drawing these conclusions out of thin air, Albert. There's nothing to suggest there's going to be 1 scum in each hood and 2 outside. Also 335.

I'm like 99.9% of the way to swapping my vote to Vecna at this point.

You should. BM is town.

GuiltyLion and davesaz could very well be bussing each other. In any case, we should concentrate our votes. Bring me a chair and rope.

Dislike this overconfidence. Though I might be confusing playstyle with scuminess.

Pedit - You'll find most of the reasoning in the readslist after that. Some of those were gut and I don't remember all the reasoning. Inquire about one if you're particularly interested in it. Also, why is this of interest to you?

[Hectic]

I guess I missed GL's claim he was in no hoods. However, my point still stands. Scum do have a PT of the own, thus can communicate privately. A Traffic analyst would get the liar(s) is any. Nit lynching anyone who claims not to be in a PT today.

Setup-speccing that there might be a traffic analyst in a game where 80%+ of people are in hoods is really strange.

Not A50. I like how he commented on how he loves his role

Why town-indicative, Morning? Are you assuming he prefers playing as town?

This is taking years. I'll skim through the rest and ISO the scummy people.

[Hectic]

Hey, Blake, can you give me an example of Dave reacting very poorly and creating a toxic gamestate while he was pushed as scum?

Almo, are 457 and 776, and 891 your reasons for wanting to lynch Elsa? A traitor crumb, foreshadowing that he's scum WHILE there's a wagon on him, and the fact his scumgame is stronger than his towngame?

.3.

Now that's one I haven't seen before. Some nice foreshadowing.

The Mass Spec Analytical has changed their minds on Vecna. He's pointed out things they found towny on more than one occasion.

Almost I'm starting to think your going out of your way to try and make the vigilante(s) waste a shot on me. Usually you've just left me alone day 1 and such because I'm "entertaining". I think your just trying to detract from the other potential wagons today.

This post doesn't really fill me with confidence regarding Elsa though. I mean, I agree that Almo is scummy, but the reasoning here is iffy.

VOTE: Almost50

[Albert B. Rampage]

VOTE: Hectic

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm not buying the a50 suspicion for one second LOL

[Hectic]

Please enlighten me, Albert dear!