Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[Knightmare491]

MOD be like: here take 2 millers(best way to deal with this role is to claim day 1 immediately)

*PSYCHE*

there is no cop bwahaha

[mavsfan41]

New theory, with UnaBombaH trying to render Wake88 useless, scum doesn’t need to kill Wake88 at all. And maybe never depending on how much Wake88 decides to contribute. Him being unlynchable from a mafia perspective isn’t great as they need the widest range of potential mislynches, but Farside definitely contributed more so she was more of a threat to scum. I think Wake88 sticking around does throw some suspicion on UnaBombaH. (Or I guess they could’ve WIFOM’ed the nurse believing the nurse would target Wake88 making him unkillable.) thoughts?

[Knightmare491]

There's a lot to do with mafia not killing wake, killing PRs is a higher priority for them. Yes wake can't be lynched and they'll have to kill him at some point but killing him night 1 would be pointless.

[GeorgeBailey]

Town better be fucking stacked in this game if there are 2 millers

So then why was your first reaction to vote me? This was before Persivu's rolecop.

[Tanner]

George, where you at reads-wise?

[GeorgeBailey]

Well, I came into today ready to instant vote Mavs, but Persivul confirms him.

I mean, it COULD be possible Mavs and Persivul are a scum team, but it's a bit unlikely. Especially since if one falls, the other will too.

But it's still shitty that I got scumread for believing double miller was possible, and then it turns out to be possible. Mavs backpedaling yesterday was also really worrying.

I think in retrospect, Riabi's wolf looks the worst.

What if there are two millers?

Then I'm wrong?

All that said, I accept the possibility that there are two millers, but, it doesn't seem very likely to me. I think it's way more likely that one of them (Drew, probably) is lying. Either way, like I said above, I think they both need to die, and as quickly as possible

Like, why do they both need to die if you only think one of them is lying? I think he didn't even consider the possibility of double miller. And scum wanted to push the Drew lynch as hard as possible.

VOTE: Riabi

[GeorgeBailey]

farside WAS one of my townreads.

I think Tanner has been townie

Knightmare has been opportunistic.

Mavs and persivul are either super confirmed PR, or literally the scumteam.

[Riabi]

Like, why do they both need to die if you only think one of them is lying? I think he didn't even consider the possibility of double miller. And scum wanted to push the Drew lynch as hard as possible.

VOTE: Riabi

For the same reason that the miller needs to die if only one person claims miller? Because it's too easy/convenient of a claim otherwise. Now, that was with the information we had on D1; Persivul's claim does seem to confirm mavs, since scum miller isn't a normal role, and I can't think of a reason that a scum!persivul would lie about mavs' claim.

Mavs and persivul are either super confirmed PR, or literally the scumteam.

What I don't understand though is why that claim confirms Persivul? If he is a scum role-cop, mavs seems like a pretty easy/convenient target to gain town cred.

I also don't understand why so many people in this game seem to equate "considered and rejected" with "didn't consider". I did consider the possibility of double miller, and I didn't find the arguments for it compelling, so I acted on the information I had at the time that I found most compelling. Turns out I was wrong, ok, most people are wrong most of the time, but that doesn't mean I didn't even consider the thought.

Now, in light of the new info that I was apparently wrong about the set up of the game. I need to go back and reread D1.

[Tanner]

What I don't understand though is why that claim confirms Persivul? If he is a scum role-cop, mavs seems like a pretty easy/convenient target to gain town cred.

Because why? mavs otherwise would've been a free mislynch. why would scum!Persi stand up, claim Rolecop, throw away a mislynch option, and then screw himself further because he's gonna get under fire once a few Days pass and he doesn't get killed?

Not mentioning the fact that two Millers with Town not being able to confirm either (so with no role like Persi's) is borderline bastard. If there is a second Town Rolecop claim, sure, we can talk. But honestly. The fact someone would legit suspect Persi here is insane.

(unless of course Persi and mavs are scum

together

but that would be one of the most insane plays i have ever seen so kudos.)

[UnaBombaH]

New theory, with UnaBombaH trying to render Wake88 useless, scum doesn’t need to kill Wake88 at all.

Wait what?
How am I trying to render him useless????

On the contrary - I'm trying to get the most out of him.
It's up to him to be more active and vocal as the only conf.town in the game.
I'm just advocating for him to not vote on the wagons, and rather lead with his words over his votes.

[UnaBombaH]

Mavs and persivul are either super confirmed PR, or literally the scumteam.

This is correct.

[UnaBombaH]

Because why? mavs otherwise would've been a free mislynch. why would scum!Persi stand up, claim Rolecop, throw away a mislynch option, and then screw himself further because he's gonna get under fire once a few Days pass and he doesn't get killed?

Well this isn't exactly true tbh.
Throwing away a free mislynch vs basically townbinning themselves in the eyes of everyone...

[Tanner]

Because why? mavs otherwise would've been a free mislynch. why would scum!Persi stand up, claim Rolecop, throw away a mislynch option,

and then screw himself further because he's gonna get under fire once a few Days pass and he doesn't get killed?

read again. not only that, he has to produce plausible results if needed.

[UnaBombaH]

Scum reads: red panda, luca, knight/persivul.

Im more confident of my rd scum read. I may expect better from persivul so my scum read maybe bias.

This makes me think scum!Pers - no matter mavs' alignment.
Lucas tone also felt off when they were doing that out of the ordinary recap-focus on me D1.
I believe farside called at least one of them out correctly.

[mavsfan41]

@Luca: your 406, 406, 410, and 415 ALL throw shade on UnaBombaH but you don’t vote him. Why not? Your only vote came via RVS and that’s where you left it. I understand you were catching up but aside from UnaBombaH (who you don’t decide to vote) you really don’t offer much. This strikes me as scum trying to fence sit.

Your 366 post is strange too. You agree with a post that has been heavily criticized for being lazy and has lead players to vote Saladman27.

Outside of 367 you don’t even bother with acknowledging Drew. This seems scum allowing Drew to be lynched without being part of the lynch.

Vote: Luca Blight

[UnaBombaH]

I read that yeah.
But if NEITHER of them gets lynched today, and we make another mislynch...think of the amount of WIFOM we have to deal with.

Do we lynch the claimed Miller, OR the one who confirmed that role?
Well, obviously Pers flipping town!RoleCop would confirm mavs as well, but it doesn't work the other way around.
Also - Pers is the one who might be able to retrieve more results for us, unlike mavs.

So no, IMO for Pers to be "townbinned" it doesn't require for him to yield any more results to us.
He can claim "no result" tomorrow, and it's still just as likely that he is speaking the truth, as it is for scum to have a roleblocker.
WINE ALL AROUND.

[Tanner]

Mavs and persivul are either super confirmed PR, or literally the scumteam.

This is correct.

Scum reads: red panda, luca, knight/persivul.

Im more confident of my rd scum read. I may expect better from persivul so my scum read maybe bias.

This makes me think scum!Pers -

no matter mavs' alignment

.
Lucas tone also felt off when they were doing that out of the ordinary recap-focus on me D1.
I believe farside called at least one of them out correctly.

But you just said they have the same alignment?

Also can it not literally be Red Panda? Why is everyone ignoring Panda?

[UnaBombaH]

Lucas tone also felt off when they were doing that out of the ordinary recap-focus on me D1.

OH wow. Either you did that very quickly, or you really had the same thought as I did! O_O

@Luca: your 406, 406, 410, and 415 ALL throw shade on UnaBombaH but you don’t vote him. Why not? Your only vote came via RVS and that’s where you left it. I understand you were catching up but aside from UnaBombaH (who you don’t decide to vote) you really don’t offer much. This strikes me as scum trying to fence sit.

VOTE: Luca Blight

[UnaBombaH]

But you just said they have the same alignment?

Well, I said he was correct when he was making that completely 50/50 non-committal assessment of the situation. My point being that the situation is full of "either-or".

Also can it not literally be Red Panda? Why is everyone ignoring Panda?

Sure it can.

[mavsfan41]

@UnaBombaH: I was drafting that, posted it, then was like oh shit! Una’s thinking the same thing. Then was like fuck! People are gonna think I just piggybacked off Una.....

I was looking at the vote count and running through ISOs of players with votes other than Drew. Drew was the inevitable lynch, so scum wouldn’t necessarily be on that wagon for him to be lynched. So I want to know where other players were voting and why and then saw his vote and was “let’s see why he voted Prana” and the reason was very disappointing.

[UnaBombaH]

This just got spicy.
Gotta go to sleep now, it's over 1AM here.

[mavsfan41]

I meant “oh shit! Una’s thinking the same thing” as in Nice!

[UnaBombaH]

Oh, before I got sleep.
My solve as of right now, little bit of vodka and tiredness involved?

Luca Blight - Tanner - Persivul.

Goodnight everyone.

[Tanner]

Go to sleep.

VOTE: Luca

[PranaDevil]

@Prana Devil:

I actually hate that claim from Persivul.

It’s extremely easy to fake as scum. I claimed miller and if Persivul is scum he knows I’m not his scum buddy and that I’m likely not fake claiming so he can take a pretty low risk gamble and say I’m miller in an attempt to validate his claim.

As for the night kill, Farside’s death does link to Persivul. In addition to that, Farside did express how even if Drew flipped miller, she would fight against my lynch day 2. With her gone, there’s now less resistance to lynch me and if I’m lynched, when I flip miller, that will give Persivul’s claim more credit. I think the NK of farside might have been twofold as just described. I would vote Persivul but voting someone on V/LA seems in bad faith. So I’ll wait to do so.

I will say,

two types of cops with two millers does make sense right

?

Not a fan of this, it casts suspicion on Persivul, while also going "but actually, it would be right to have two types of cop".

And if we DO have two types of cop... why would Persivul fake claim right out of the gate like that?

Persivul is 100% a rolecop, I doubt he fake claimed immediately like that, it's just... is he town or scum?

There's a lot to do with mafia not killing wake, killing PRs is a higher priority for them. Yes wake can't be lynched and they'll have to kill him at some point but killing him night 1 would be pointless.

Plus, any doc role we may have would be on Wake, absolutely no point in risking shooting the only confirmed town role.

What I don't understand though is why that claim confirms Persivul? If he is a scum role-cop, mavs seems like a pretty easy/convenient target to gain town cred.

Because why? mavs otherwise would've been a free mislynch. why would scum!Persi stand up, claim Rolecop, throw away a mislynch option, and then screw himself further because he's gonna get under fire once a few Days pass and he doesn't get killed?

Not mentioning the fact that two Millers with Town not being able to confirm either (so with no role like Persi's) is borderline bastard. If there is a second Town Rolecop claim, sure, we can talk. But honestly. The fact someone would legit suspect Persi here is insane.

Actually... that's a fair point, plus Persivul 100% has to be giving us reads if he stays alive for more than one day, it's no good him going "I won't say who I checked" every night. Because the chance of him hitting a PR each night is ridiculous, so we would either have him pretending he investigated scum and calling them vanilla town, which would just backfire eventually. Such as when he doesn't die, or when actual power roles start falling instead.

So yes, on further reflection, I don't see the logic behind a Persivul scum rolecop gambit there this early, nor a pairing of him and mavs. If both are town, scum has to shoot one of them tonight anyway, going to the following day with 3 confirmed town (or at least two town who likely will back each other up, and Wake who is mod confirmed town) is way too dangerous for them, so scum would have to take them out tonight.

I read that yeah.
But if NEITHER of them gets lynched today, and we make another mislynch...think of the amount of WIFOM we have to deal with.

Do we lynch the claimed Miller, OR the one who confirmed that role?
Well, obviously Pers flipping town!RoleCop would confirm mavs as well, but it doesn't work the other way around.
Also - Pers is the one who might be able to retrieve more results for us, unlike mavs.

So no, IMO for Pers to be "townbinned" it doesn't require for him to yield any more results to us.
He can claim "no result" tomorrow, and it's still just as likely that he is speaking the truth, as it is for scum to have a roleblocker.
WINE ALL AROUND.

So... you suggest we lynch one of them no matter what? I want to be certain that's what you are saying.

Also, wagon on Lucas seems pretty good based solely on mavs post above, I want to hear Lucas' response to it.

UNVOTE:

I don't believe Persivul is scum based on the above and after a rethink (well... after Tanner's post)