Newbie 1996: GAME OVER

[clidd]

Kirari, I'm not townreading your question about his role. He is a logical player, this type of gambit is not his profile.

[Kirari Momobami]

He's real, I know how he plays. He doesn't have balls to fakeclaim like that as scum, lol.

I agree but he would have had to have suffered an aneurysm to be saying the nonsense he's saying this game to be town

I refuse to believe it at this point, he's jumped the shark

[Kirari Momobami]

I honestly don't care, someone other than me needs to tell him that it's okay to stop throwing the game

I'm pretty sure he's stopped bothering because he's actually internalized the fact that I'm town and he's thrown the game and now he just wants to play it out so he can start pretending this game never happened

[clidd]

Do you realize that he outed today because he wants to lynch you, right ?

[Kirari Momobami]

There's no reason for him to *constantly* go back to how he will feel about the game in post unless he actually is basically sure I'm town but wants to keep blaming me for the fact he hard-claimed with zero votes on him and then has the gall to insult my play

So many lines crossed it boggles the mind

[Kirari Momobami]

Do you realize that he outed today because he wants to lynch you, right ?

No, I think he outed today because he wanted to die, which is literally what he said was the reason he hard-claimed. He outed today to throw the game. That is his explanation.

[Kirari Momobami]

I've been mentally check out the entire game

By claiming I die tonight

This is what I'm seeing as far as why Lucky claimed

He claimed so he could die. He doesn't want to earn a nightkill, and his play is *so bad* he's practically guaranteed himself another day. Why would scum ever shoot Lucky at this point?

CONVERSELY

As scum, maybe this was all his "master plan" so he could go into lylo with a lot of wifom having EXCLUSIVELY tunneled town *the entire game*

Clearly a genius scum strategy! /kappa

[clidd]

Ok, I'll take a break from this game. I need to think.

[Kirari Momobami]

(Like, let's be real. Lucky never claims a track on someone he thinks was jailkept as part of a scum gambit. It's literally too dumb to be faked. He has to be real because no scum would ever come up with this intentionally as a gambit. But based on play, and level of insanity in his posts, he absolutely should be scum in any other game)

[Kirari Momobami]

Yeah at this point whenever Lucky posts I just see red I guess

He is throwing this game so hard it's getting increasingly difficult to play to town wincon. He frankly should just be policy lynched for the worst hard-claim I've seen, possibly ever

[Kirari Momobami]

Here, I'll go back to (expired on 2020-04-25 11:31:15) with no posts, and that includes no votes on 3b or anyone else!

Take your time Holden

[LuckyLuciano]

Votecount 2.09

Kirari Momobami (3)

- Yooh, 3bounty, LuckyLuciano

3bounty (3)

- humaneatingmonkey, Kirari Momobami, HoldenGolden

Not Voting (1)

- Clidd,

With 7 players alive it takes 4 votes to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-04-26 09:10:00)

Im thinking about the previous scenario. I had hammer, so both scums were voting. Where are they ?

I mean the logical conclusion is that either both scum are voting, or you are scum.

[clidd]

Votecount 2.09

Kirari Momobami (3)

- Yooh, 3bounty, LuckyLuciano

3bounty (3)

- humaneatingmonkey, Kirari Momobami, HoldenGolden

Not Voting (1)

- Clidd,

With 7 players alive it takes 4 votes to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-04-26 09:10:00)

Im thinking about the previous scenario. I had hammer, so both scums were voting. Where are they ?

I mean the logical conclusion is that either both scum are voting, or you are scum.

Where

[humaneatingmonkey]

a) you changed your avatar to get into the mood for this game, which is statistically townie and also townie specifically for this game given half the players have like given up

are you serious about this

[LuckyLuciano]

Votecount 2.09

Kirari Momobami (3)

- Yooh, 3bounty, LuckyLuciano

3bounty (3)

- humaneatingmonkey, Kirari Momobami, HoldenGolden

Not Voting (1)

- Clidd,

With 7 players alive it takes 4 votes to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-04-26 09:10:00)

Im thinking about the previous scenario. I had hammer, so both scums were voting. Where are they ?

I mean the logical conclusion is that either both scum are voting, or you are scum.

Where

You must understand how asking this doesn't help anyone but you, no?

[clidd]

Votecount 2.09

Kirari Momobami (3)

- Yooh, 3bounty, LuckyLuciano

3bounty (3)

- humaneatingmonkey, Kirari Momobami, HoldenGolden

Not Voting (1)

- Clidd,

With 7 players alive it takes 4 votes to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-04-26 09:10:00)

Im thinking about the previous scenario. I had hammer, so both scums were voting. Where are they ?

I mean the logical conclusion is that either both scum are voting, or you are scum.

Where

You must understand how asking this doesn't help anyone but you, no?

It was a rhetorical question, but yeah.

[humaneatingmonkey]

how can i stop playing dota so i can finally join this game in full spirit

[clidd]

Yeah at this point whenever Lucky posts I just see red I guess

He is throwing this game so hard it's getting increasingly difficult to play to town wincon. He frankly should just be policy lynched for the worst hard-claim I've seen, possibly ever

This act of demoralization does not help and only intensifies Luciano's desire to want to lynch you. In particular, I am getting uncomfortable with the way you two have interacted in this game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

clidd, what's stopping you from lynching 3bounty? do you seriously consider kirari as scum?

[clidd]

clidd, what's stopping you from lynching 3bounty? do you seriously consider kirari as scum?

I am one of the most adaptive players on this forum. I can change my perspective on someone in a matter of seconds if I notice something wrong, even if the player played perfectly the entire game. I am being impartial right now because there is a strange division of votes. I cannot distinguish whether both scums are in the same wagon or separated, so I'm waiting.

[HoldenGolden]

My thoughts of HEM

Intro: My overall thoughts on HEM are retrospectively has I haven't deeply reread his ISO as a combination of RL and other more interesting avenues up until this point. I have outline these thoughts earlier, but any case lets dive in. I will be coloring the sections by how they influence my read.

I: The LL interaction Day 1

While I can see equally a world where town or scum monkey pushes LL (as I did agree with the push since I found LL suspicious at the moment as well), I think the way he handled LL's response to waiting to play till day 2 townie:

Spoiler:

[SE Hat]
Lucky, I get why being under pressure is hard. Unfortunately, being suspect #1 is just part of the game. We all get our turns. A central wagon on D1 will give us all the information we need later on for interactions and reactions.

If you're town, you also get to jump at the people who feel scummiest for being at your wagon. During at this town, you might start town-telling, and you might convince the players to leave you alone for someone better. (or leave a legacy of texts for later days).
If you're town PR, you will be forced to claim at L-1 — and that's avoidable.
If you're scum, this is an opportunity to sniff out PRs and set-up future lynches by interacting with the town.

Inactivity is substandard play, no matter your alignment.
[/SEhat]

However, if you're going to handle this by prod-dodging and waiting for the next day, there won't be a next day. You

will

be flashlynched. I will personally lead your flashlynching. Why? Because you're still my number one suspect, and the game will still be in stand-still without you playing the game with us. It's not like I'll just throw my hands up in the air and say "well then".

Ah okay, I understand. Can you still respond regardless? I don't think I'm being as unreasonable as you imagine me to be.

I'd ask you about your reaction to #104, or why it took you so long to vote InWho22, but let's change the subject if you're not interested in changing my mind:

Why do you townlean Kirari? What's your reaction to 3bounty saying that we're SvS? What do you want to hear from InWho22 moving forward?

As it can be seen above, HEM's stance on LL's falking was innocent in the since he wasn't attempting to frame the flake as scum trying to lurk off the pressure. Scum!monkey could of easily have kept the pressure on LL to not only hide from scum hunting else where, but also attempt to secure a day 1 ML. HEM's attempts to defuse the situation and even allowing LL some breathing room by requesting his views on both his scum read (Inwho), town lean (Kirari), and other interactions in the thread (3b's svs comment) comes across as a townie trying both to simultaneity gain more info on their scum read while leaving room for enough curiosity to reread LL. In other words, I see HEM's comments here displaying a town motivation to solve the game. Although he does go back to the scum read in post 181, I still feel the prospect of relieving pressure, even if it was temporarily, is most likely townie.

Slight counter-argument:

Spoiler:

Votecount 1.05

humaneatingmonkey - (1)

- Holdengolden

LuckyLuciano - (2)

- Yooh, humaneatingmonkey

Aloratom - (2)

- Peaches, Luckyluciano

Inwho22 - (1)

- 3bounty,

Peaches - (2)

- Kirari Momobami, Inwho22

Not Voting (1) -

Aloratom

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-04-19 06:15:00)

With a VC like this, it's safe to say that we hit scum early. I feel good about my LL read. Plus, with the unlimited chances he had, I'm still not convinced LL is town.
I'll spend the rest of the day pulling reads from people. At the end of the day, I hope people will sheep me or I will throw a

h i s s y f i t

.

Locktown: InWho22
Softtown: Holden, InWho22, Yooh, Kirari
Scum: LL
I need more: Peaches, 3bounty, Aloratom

I'm not gonna lynch Peaches just for inactivity. We have other ways to learn their alignment.
If anyone not LL wants to convince me they're not scum, I'm happy to engage.
If anyone wants to convince me that InWho22 is scum, I'm also happy to engage.

I will admit however that this post does have some glaring issues, namely the precedence of using AtE (throwing a hissyfit) over LL's wagon. Normally I would feel some town vibes from not agreeing to the lurker lynch (peach), the fact i'm not sure of Cli2d's alignment complicates it (however, it is not on equal pairing to 3b's treatment to the peaches slot). Ultimately, I think this post does have some points for both scum and town monkey. The town points being his locking of town in inwho (which consequently locks scum of the lynch especially since little countermeasure to it was offered in general). I would say his tunneling while sorting people into only town read positions is towny, but his 3b read shortly after comes and the tunnel is extended to cast 3b and LL as partners. In other words, he pivots too quickly out and utilizes the tunnel in capacity to strengthen his read on 3b (intentionally or unintentionally) nullifies the tunneling up to this point coming from town and leaves it NAI.

II: Initial Tunnel Pivot:

Spoiler: It messed up somewhat but here it is

Spoiler:

3bounty

From what you say, I can see from your style that you're thinking out loud. What you don't do is follow through — only taking the safest vote on Peach, the inactive player. You said you're struggling to find decent scumreads, but you've really thrown at least 3 scumreads throughout the game: Me, LL, and InWho22.

You went from Alo being town (#225, #263) to scum (#345), for the same thing — ignoring people's question. Either I'm not understanding your process, or you don't have one. I'm betting you don't have one. If you do, I want to be enlightened.

What's good, 3bounty?

UNVOTE: InWho22
VOTE: Aloratom

I decided to do some research as to whether he always speaks in a manner that is intentionally obfuscating. After all, he did say that he is communicating the way he is this game deliberately (195). The first thing that popped out when viewing his topics was a mafia PT: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=82227. I decided to look there first, because if there is ever a time you would communicate clearly, it's with your known teammates. He speaks very clearly there. He also speaks very clearly in the game itself: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go. Of note, is post 12 of the mafia PT,

That's fine with me.

The only Intel I have is on geraintm. He's back after a long break. He's from Wales, so his posts are GMT. He doesn't post during weekends. He was scum in a newbie game I just finished. When he talked it was in a confusing manner.

I don't think it was wholly by design. There was a lot hemming and hawing. Talking but not saying anything. I'll be interested to see if he does that as Town. If so, he's a good lynch candidate.

I looked up that newbie game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81784. Mafia won a flawless game. While I think geraintm's communication was clearer in that game than Aloratom's is here, he both found it memorable enough to point out in a later mafia PT, and this game he said his confusing language is deliberate, which is backed up by looking at other games he's played. It looks to me like he is trying to imitate a characteristic of a player who perfect gamed him as scum. I don't know why he would imitate this as town, especially when he said in the mafia PT that if geraintm spoke confusingly he would use it to try and mislynch geraintm. There appears to be plenty of motive to imitate this as scum.

The fact that he is both capable of intelligibly interpreting what people say, and communicating eloquently both reinforce my earlier belief that his readings of my statements were deliberately off-base and made in bad faith. More damning that making his own speech more difficult to decipher is choosing to misrepresent what other players say.

Actually that unvote should be on Peaches. You know a player has been flying under the radar when you forget they are in the game even after you vote them for activity.

I looked at 1994 first, and the way you speak there aligns with the other games of yours I have seen, and does not match the way you speak here. Before I waste my time looking at the other games, why don't we cut to the chase. You are deliberately structuring your sentences differently this game than in your other games.

Why?

For the reference of the other players in the game: Posts 108, 112, 113, 149, and 204 all represent areas of the game where I feel that Aloratom's interpretation of what is said is far enough off-base to be beyond any sort of standard deviation that could be derived from any of his games I have looked at up to this point. That is to say, I believe his capacity to correctly interpret statements is proven in his past games. It is very possible for him to misunderstand something here or there, but his misunderstandings have been frequent enough, and egregious enough for me to consider them intentional.

Further, since Aloratom wanted me to look at some of his other games, and I did assuming he would come off as deliberately obfuscating in those as well, yet be town (spoiler: this is still the only game of his I have seen where he acts this way), I have come to realize that 175 is a lie.

Reference:

Newbie 1994

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11693906
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11693960

Of note: 3b played with Aloratom in that game yet neither called out Aloratom for 175, nor for his strikingly different approach to the game than what was displayed in 1994.

pedit: Aloratom, I'm not going to start arguing with you that you are behaving differently in this game than in your others, when you know that it is true. I asked you why. You chose not to answer, and instead to deny it. Either I'm crazy, or every other player in the game is going to be able to look at any of your other games and see what I see. You can either explain your deliberate change in approach to the game, or you can be lynched. I have reason to believe that the change is scum-motivated, based on the fact that you were perfect gamed as town, and your takeaway from that game, as indicated by the mafia PT of yours I posted, was that one of the scum spoke in a confusing way.

I humored you and looked at 1986. You still speak eloquently there, unlike here. You were lynched despite breadcrumbing. Breadcrumbing is not the same as acting in a disorienting manner. It's 2:20am here, I'm going to bed. Hopefully you are lynched before I wake up.

I dislike day one associative analysis, but for the sake of vanity I'm going to say that 3b and HEM make the most sense as partners for Aloratom.

Peaches wagon has always been, and still is, a push for activity. 3b randomly coming in and presuming Peaches is today's lynch and publicly abstaining is scummy. Alo trying to pivot the wagon from an activity push (284) to a lynch indirectly by arguing there is value in the lynch (316, 325, 326) is scummy. If you really want people to pressure Peaches for activity, then you don't start justifying the lynch before she meaningfully contributes. If Alo flips red, which he will, then Peaches is green and the other scum is not currently on Peaches wagon. This is true because of Alo's desire to lynch within the wagon when Peaches flips green. Inevitably he would be lynched at some point for being on the wagon as well, but if he gets a second mislynch by pushing people for being on the wagon after he justified it, then it will be 2 town for 1 scum and mafia will only need 1 more mislynch to win.

3b on Alo

Spoiler:

Alo town - scum would be less likely to ignore questions from other players. He just outright ignored peaches question.

Alo town - scum would be less likely to ignore questions from other players. He just outright ignored peaches question.

Why would they? Isn't denying town information straight up anti-town, or am I missing some philosophy here?

I am sure there are players out there who can play scum and be anti town, but majority of scum would avoid being anti town.

Alo town - scum would be less likely to ignore questions from other players. He just outright ignored peaches question.

Can you explain your rationale here more?

I get the notion that scum tends to read the thread more closely, but peaches has been such a non entity it's not like Alo has exactly been punished for skipping a question.

I honestly forgot about peaches until last page

Would scum miss the question? He legit posted 10 mins after the post without answering it. I am not saying it's imossible for scum to do such a thing but less likely.

Alo town - scum would be less likely to ignore questions from other players. He just outright ignored peaches question.

Why would they? Isn't denying town information straight up anti-town, or am I missing some philosophy here?

I am sure there are players out there who can play scum and be anti town, but majority of scum would avoid being anti town.

So it is pretty much just NAI?

No. It is giving me town alignment. I give up on this point. Make of it what you will.

3b seems pretty insistent on defending Alo simply because he missed a question. Is it really that easy to get a townread from 3b? What about all of the questions I didn't answer? Why does this apply only to Alo? Further, his reasoning for townreading Alo is essentially that scum wouldn't play anti-town. The scum wincon is literally anti-town. 3b's reasoning here can be used to townread open-wolfing. It can be used to townread any scum-motivated action. It's incredibly weak, and doesn't support the strength of the read that I'm gathering from his desire to defend Alo.

Hmmmm. Nah sorry can't see it. Alo is probably town. You're correct I played 1994 with him, but I subbed in halfway through day 1, and the game had no day 2 so. Not much content there at all, dont expect me to be an Alo expert, I am just as confused as the rest by some of his posts in here.

Rereading some of InWho22's recent posts, starting to get lamist vibes.

3b admits to being confused by some of Alo's posts. This both should degrade his town read, because he does not understand where Alo is coming from, but also lead him to support my case against Alo, in that I provide reason to believe that the confusion that Alo is causing - which 3b admits he sees as well - is both intentional and scum-motivated. For some reason he blindly holds a townread on Alo. Not only that, but he begins to redirect focus on InWho22 without explaining what he saw that is giving him lamist vibes. It looks more that he's trying to deflect pressure off a scumbuddy than go after InWho22.

Need more content from peaches but I'm slight scum lean. Her RVS vote seems a bit non random with the question to Alo.

At other points in the game he literally says that there's nothing to be read from the Peaches slot, yet here he scumleans her. Why? Because she targeted Alo in her first post.

Spoiler: Yep still screwy

3b on Peaches

Spoiler:

Need more content from peaches but I'm slight scum lean. Her RVS vote seems a bit non random with the question to Alo.

As seen before, 3b believes Peaches may be scum.

InWho22 neutral.

Are you still satisfied with your rvs vote then?

Those aren't meant to be satisfying in the first place. Who is your top scum read and why?

I meant more you haven't changed votes, so the question is do you still think your vote is where it's most effective?

Struggling to find a decent scum read I will change when I do find one. Do you have any scum reads?

4 posts later and he is keeping his vote where it was in RVS because he doesn't have a good alternative. Not only is he scumlean on Peaches, but he believes we need more activity from her. Both of these are consistent with switching his vote to Peaches, and inconsistent with his actual course of action. Afterwards, he deflects back to Kirari, in the same way he deflects from Alo to InWho22 in a later post.

A peaches lynch unfortunately doesn't give me anything moving forward, but there is a chance that she herself is scum so there's that.

A peaches lynch unfortunately doesn't give me anything moving forward, but there is a chance that she herself is scum so there's that.

I don't understand what you're getting at here. If two people jump on and lynch Peaches, and she's Town, we get a lot of information out of that.

I get nothing, she has made two posts to you, that is what I'd label as not enough information.

These are posts I've already gone over in my prior analysis. The entire wagon on Peaches is for activity. 3b himself said we need more activity from Peaches. Why is her operating under the assumption that we are planning to lynch her? Why is he distancing himself from a wagon that isn't even supposed to be pushing for a lynch, and why is he distancing himself from a wagon that he himself is scumlean on? The scum motive would be to distance himself from ALO, WRT my analysis in a prior post that if Alo is red, his partner is not on the wagon and Alo's play indicates as much.

I mean, LL has more reason to vote for 3b here at this point but he votes for Alo for... get this... confusing language.

I'm 100% sure that this guy is scum

Holden, let's double-team this guy

I do not care much for the pivot of the tunneling on LL here. I call it a pivot because it is showing Monkey scumreading someone else allowing him to move from the LL read as either AI, and thus, pivot. I think the 3b read was fine, but the tone is off and is quite geared to the assurance that 3b is scum (the eariler post too where he goes from I see 3b as town, wait something is scummy, to the above it sounds sudden and somewhat smuggy). This is mostly reflected in the "enlighten me" and "whats good 3b?" comments plus the ......... with the LL reasoning post. Moreover, inviting me to double team him when I was reading 3b in a scummy light seems made in an attempt to push the read unnaturally. Rather than get an answer for his question, he wants to pressure hard on 3b. I am hard pressed to really see this in a townie manner.

In a side note, Monkey this game has made multiple attempts come to think about it to "work" with me with one for sure during the LL claim pages. Perhaps later I will expand this thought to see if it warrants more investigative insight. Another side note, I do not think 3b and Monkey is a team for this reason. Scum!monkey did not need to reflect any further and come to his own conclusion why his partner is scum given just having inquired about the scum reads on his partner.

The following posts with Yooh and Kirari are much more tamer and more align to solving the game again, asking questions and wanting his town reads (Kirari and me) to explain our townreads on Yooh. This is ultimately NAI as I can see town and scum monkey doing this. The distinctive difference through between how he does handle these versus the 3b. Ultimately, I think the initial pivot is scummy due to the 3b interaction. I do think town moves away from the LL tunnel no matter how much conviction they have in the read, but the tonal aspects of the 3b flip and follow up with the team pairing doesn't reflect how I expect town to do that. Especially when there is already pressure on the person in question.

III End of Day

1 Play [/u][/b]

Spoiler: Voice of wagon target

Gamestate is: Both Alo and 3b is on L-1. 4 people are willing to vote on Alo (Holden, LL, Clidd, 3b), 4 people are willing to vote on 3b (Monkey, Holden, Alo, Who22). Kirari, Yooh, and Holden are the swing votes. Holden prefers either a 3b or an Alo lynch. Yooh would not prefer to lynch both 3b and Alo. Kirari has kept vague about her desired lynches.

Yooh, Holden, and Kirari should weigh in so we can get a final candidate to get a claim and a lynch from.

If I have enough time, I would start a wagon on Kirari. I don't think I currently have enough willpower to sustain that.

To be clear Alo, you're not willing to vote 3b anymore? This is important because I'm trying to move the game to a state where we can get a claim going and still have time to think about it.

clidd's ISO on you gave me a good perspective on town!Lucky and you have given context on why you were off in the first half of the game (being in a simultaneous frustrating game). I also think it's most probable that you're town from the backwards logic that you're putting a lot of crosshairs on your back. I could be underestimating you here, but I'm just gonna go with what I felt after the re-read.

This is the real first taste since HEM stated he would reread the thread to get a better since after an LL wagon stop becoming realistic. I can understand the progression up to this point since it is keeping in measure for his earlier reads. His reasoning for focusing on the two wagons is to provide town enough time to get a claim and inquires about Alo's stance on 3b because of it. I don't find his LL reevaluation either as forced as I had somewhat similar experiences reading cli2d's post as well. I find his handling of Alo's confusion over Monkey's read on him somewhat townie though the following makes me pause.

Spoiler:

Although it's interesting how

HIS

read of 3b progressed from scum to confused town.

That's a stark lack of progression for me...

I was wrong in that he was willing to vote for 3b, so we can put him on the swing vote pile. He wasn't really scum reading 3b — he was just "starting" to doubt it.

I don't like this as it keeps up the trend from the 3b pivot. Although I understand why Monkey was reading Alo's posts (to gather his stance on a 3b wagon) I feel the way he went about raising concerns about it feels more like a shade attempt. It makes Alo's stances seem much more worse than they are, and even after correcting himself, monkey still uses ""'s around starting to cast suspensions into Alo's thought process. Yes, I am reading into adjectival choices and the aspect of tone. This is what scum does subconsciously, and what I have to write lengthy essays about anyways. Though this handling at first seems townie, his before mention display of Alo's actions undermines it.

That's actually a fair point, Yooh. I've been thinking about it now. Alo has no reason to just put weight on Bounty's wagon, since Bounty and Alo can't be SvS. I believe Bounty is more likely to be scum than Alo, but I really want to get a claim going since it's clear the majority wants to lynch Alo thus it would happen anyway.

After Alo claims, I'll do an ISO on both Bounty and Kirari. I think if Alo is town (and if he claims PR here, I'll believe him), Bounty or Kirari is most probably scum.

Yes, I said I'd do one earlier. Yes, it's been a lot of hours. Yes, I'm super lazy.

I feel the reevaluation can go either way. Scum loses ammo after realizing they were incorrect so meh. NAI. Alo does present another round of confusion about Monkey's read on him which Monkey handles like before. A switch to Kirari comes in:

Spoiler: NOT IN ORDER FYI, QUOTING IS HARD OK

what the fuck are we doing? we think this guy is town and we want to hammer?
we have enough time for a kirari wagon. that's {holden, me, yooh, inwho22} and someone else we can convince.

Guys, Kirari is scum. VOTE: Kirari
We don't have to choose between 3b or Alo, we can consolidate fast for a Kirari wagon.

Town!Kirari made sense in as much as she's willing to be transparent with her reads. That opinion is diminished every time she's asked to define her scumreads, and her takes are lackluster — despite the numerous content made here that people can raise their eyebrows to. I'm talking about Holden and Clidd. And now Alo, who she was willing to vote over 3B despite being in her mason block.

Lucky alora and who for hard town I think

I thought I found town in monkey but not as hard, let me double check

early hard town reads, but not enough scum reads, only a vote parked in the inactive player. i'm seeing a lack of town motivation here.

ngl for 5 pages of all the people I said were scum talking to each other those 5 pages did not help my reads nearly as much as I would have liked them to

VOTE: peaches anyway it is time for content pushes so I'll join this

instead of "helping his PoE" by asking questions and indulging on her suspicions, she votes for the inactive player that's obviously not gonna fight back.

I think he's town tbh but I don't have a better wagon to sell

Get to the green flip so we get on with the game or what?

Do kinda feel like hit % would be higher in like... Holden maybe?

But ehh I'm probably not getting my 'slight preference' lynch when I basically have no idea who scum is

Alora's probably a fine lynch for gamestate even as a miss, idk

VOTE: Holden

Here's my end of day preference so that everyone can see how bad I look when Alora actually ends up flipping scum for some reason

Ehh we do have 2 days.

I can sleep on it (for real this time ) make sure no one says anything spicy, hammer in the morning

this is scummy as hell.[/quote]

I do wonder at this point how much of the tonal aspects are just playstyle, but the hyperbole like tone comes back. First, I want to address the switch in the wagon from a motivational standpoint. Monkey had already expressed that he thought both lynches was good for town for the info they provided. Even if this does not change his read feelings on Alo (it shouldn't), he suddenly is now concerned that Alo is getting lynched. There was admittedly some change in the thread's tone, but I do argue that his push on kirari does conflict with his previous feelings while the hasty fragmentation of his reasoning to why kirari is scum and should be voted for are quite lacking in both analysis and ability to convince town to switch if he genuinely wanted that wagon.

With that said, does scum!Monkey push this when town is likely to vote on the mislynch wagon (alo)? He dives hard onto the logic and keeps it pushing, so its not an attempt to just look townie. If scum was setting up a day 2 mislynch via Kirari, then I do feel monkey would build more of a slander case than outright prosecuting and attempting to lynch kirari day 1. Therefore, despite the issues I have with how rushed he was, that impulsive nature feels like it is coming from a townie mindset and has more motivation in my eyes as such. It is a grey area especially along side tone, but I lean towards town.

This is where day 1 ends with him still on the Kirari wagon at the end.

My thoughts at the end of day 1:

I do feel more uncertain in my read in HEM than before mainly for the aggressive tone that he took day 1 which in places feels more like shading of slots rather than other town play-styles that I have seen use it as a method of applying pressure. There are moments however that still reflect town motivations, or seem more likely to come from town play. I find the LL interaction's strongly from the mind of town, and the impulsive nature of the kirari wagon leads to town!monkey. There is no shut cases in his day 1 play to lock him as town or scum. Figuring out his tonal range as town will prove key in pushing him in one way or other. Right now, if I had to classify my read, it would be a town lean. I may break my rules of meta research to try and secure this better, but I shall keep going into his day 2 play soon. Needed to take break and move around.

[HoldenGolden]

I Hate BBcode fyi

Also

VLA NOTICE TILL AT LEAST MAY 1st: I have finals until then, and an outside event occurred early this morning which will perhaps affect my ability to be on. I will provide my need for an extension of VLA status, if be, when it is required.

[HoldenGolden]

Also it is ironic that Cil2d meta pull describes scum!monkey as emotionally driven when my interactions with him in the mini has lead me to the opposite conclusion since he posted in a relatively calm manner and I only suspected him d1 due certain posts.

Anyways, let me show you kirari what I was talking about with town monkey. Gimme a second

The emotional instance I saw most strongly in his scum game before the one both of you played together. But that does not reduce the argument that you are able to detect Scum!Monkey traits.

Now to properly answer this:

I do not make the claim to it affecting my abilities to read, but I do typically try to move away from meta as the game goes on and focus on the context of what has actually transpire. This is mainly because of 1) lack of actual first hand play experience across multiple games (of both agliniments) to establish a clear baseline and 2) second hand meta reports are more subjective since the reader does not know the full context of each game usually. I try to as well mainly for refinement in my abilities to catch scum in general and learn from mistakes (as meta cases then to be limited in scope of how you can learn). From my analysis so far, it seems I have to break this trend however and read some town games of Monkey to see how he acts namely what tone he presents ideas with.

[clidd]

Also it is ironic that Cil2d meta pull describes scum!monkey as emotionally driven when my interactions with him in the mini has lead me to the opposite conclusion since he posted in a relatively calm manner and I only suspected him d1 due certain posts.

Anyways, let me show you kirari what I was talking about with town monkey. Gimme a second

The emotional instance I saw most strongly in his scum game before the one both of you played together. But that does not reduce the argument that you are able to detect Scum!Monkey traits.

Now to properly answer this:

I do not make the claim to it affecting my abilities to read, but I do typically try to move away from meta as the game goes on and focus on the context of what has actually transpire. This is mainly because of 1) lack of actual first hand play experience across multiple games (of both agliniments) to establish a clear baseline and 2) second hand meta reports are more subjective since the reader does not know the full context of each game usually. I try to as well mainly for refinement in my abilities to catch scum in general and learn from mistakes (as meta cases then to be limited in scope of how you can learn). From my analysis so far, it seems I have to break this trend however and read some town games of Monkey to see how he acts namely what tone he presents ideas with.

Yes, don't worry: I understand your point of view and I was able to sympathize with your analysis as well. I believe that each player has a unique way of dealing with interpretive information processing, and that is what makes the game competitive.

[HoldenGolden]

Also we get it LL and kirari. Both of you are fine with the other losing etc. Etc.

We are either grown adults or maturing adults, let's accept it and move on rather than testing to provoke eachother mkay?

Pedit if 3b flips scum I'll happily get lynched as long as I get time to find his partner and it isnt lylo. He's been on my suspect pool for awhile.

Moreover, Kirari, I have thought about LL's claim being faked on account of a faked tracker claim costing me the game once and my deep rage at ethOs for it. However, I did not want to voice it till now because I wanted to see how LL handles the new wagons. The fact LL is still hardcore after your lynch is much different than how eth0s handled his fakeclaim. I would expect scum!LL to be more open about lynching others since his gameplay as scum requires someone to go after post your flip as town and also explain why he is still alive day 3. In short, his die hard stance on you...well dying, feels more authentic to me.