Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

Hectic · Post Post #1125 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:07 pm

In post 1111, Hectic wrote:
In post 1102, Morning Tweet wrote:ABR or hectic might be scum-- not sure there yet

i was promised something exciting, BM! unless i missed it
Do you see people's reasons for calling me an Acolyte? It sounds like cutting corners and poor storytelling to me!

Morning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Battle Mage · Post Post #1126 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:08 pm

Towniest at the top, scummiest at the bottom. ALL DONE for now

Almost50 is TOWN - meta
Drixx is TOWN - open post reveal of hood, and subsequent near-obsession with hood, as well as general inquisitive tone reads strongly town.
Blake Belladonna is PROBABLY TOWN - meta
ABR is MODERATE TOWN - My head says probably town given his personality, the way he has stepped up to lead things, and the way people have reacted to it - in real time definitely felt like a panic-moment for scum. In my heart, I'm less sure, but clearly not a lynch in the short term.
Vecna is MODERATE TOWN - just lots of good townie vibes from his posts so far.
Gamma Emerald is TOWN LEAN - marginal, but townie vibes from ISO so far.
BBMola is TOWN LEAN - Interesting ISO, overall vibe is town, although protesting his own townie-ness isn't a great look. If my other reads were right, I could be interested in BBmola as a potential low-key scumpartner, but not one for now.
Pine is TOWN LEAN - Only saving grace really is that I buy the claim, and think it probably feels more town than scum. Gameplay wise, he initially just wants to lurk through the game. Indicates factual knowledge that Vecna is town. Sets up Drixx vs Vecna as TvS - I have both as town, so this could be a cheap scum play. Collapsed under pressure to produce 6 suspects - scummy. Claims to be in 2 hoods, although per claim, obviously seems legit.
Davesaz is TOWN LEAN - minor town vibes from posting, relative to other players, nothing to trouble me here yet.
Farside22 is TOWN LEAN - genuine scum-hunting, some minor alarm bells, but not worrying me for now. Odd relationship with MorningTweet noted, and odd comment about having a mysterious reason for thinking I'm scum.

Elsa is NEUTRAL - Could go either way I guess. Should be a good one to meta later, probably not worth a tickle today.
Hectic is NEUTRAL - more interested in flavour than game early. However overall vibe is confident, bombastic townie. If scum, probably not buddies with Dany - defence of him reads as pretty odd. Interaction with ABR of late rings alarm bells. Could be buddies with Elsa.
GuiltyLion is NEUTRAL - sensible and believable thought processes, although continual "do you think I am scum though?" leaves a bad vibe, and early behaviour could be worth revisiting after some flips (not sure if he's just a vote-hopper by nature, or early-game jitters). Also not in a hood.
GeorgeBailey is NEUTRAL - some reasoning is a bit shaky, but quite liberal with the vote which I always like. One to watch, and nothing more for now.

Danyboy SCUM LEAN - early obsession with using flavour to break game is a minus. Scummy vibes from posting. Nervous about other's opinions, although picking out me and ABR as main targets would be ballsy play for scum.
Xtoxm is SCUM LEAN - slipped up early on and then struggled for a couple posts. Claimed not to be in any hoods, and this means she shouldn't be lynched. Wants to sheep - scummy. Claims farside is scum but won't lynch her to be nice. randomly claims to be town for no reason. Not scumbuddies with Pine.
MorningTweet is SCUM LEAN - Lots of elaborate reads lists with very few actual suspects - what was the point? Odd relationship with Farside. Makes a ludicrously weak case on me in post #567, and desperate for acknowledgement of it. Presenteeism? Nervous about questioning ABR - probably not buddies.
Pisskop is SCUM LEAN - generally town vibes, but I was really pinged by this "But I really do agree that we should be posting in our hoods" and "Why else would we not know our hoodmates?" followed by "I'd prefer we didnt talk about the hoods at all D1" and then "I dont have a hood". Hedging bets early on by implying he might be in a hood (when it was less clear who was in and who was out), referring to "our hoods" and "our hoodmates"? Or, less likely, a slip in reference to the scum PT? Probably not scum with ABR based on interaction.
Vaultdweller is MODERATE SCUM - claimed he didn't post in his hood for ages - what's he hiding? little contribution early, mostly cheap town reads, and trying to play probable town off against each other without getting too close to fire. Seems scared of ABR, so not scumbuddies. Pre-occupied with momo and Vecna.
Momo is MODERATE SCUM - Hard to really quantify, mostly a strong gut feeling. I just get super scummy vibes from his posting, including the wording used. Something to meta later. Could definitely see him as scum with Danyboy. And potentially with VaultDweller.

Battle Mage · Post Post #1127 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:11 pm

Farside happy with BM readslist. Votes for Xtoxm - not my top suspect. No explanation.
MorningTweet happy with BM readslist. Votes for Xtoxm - not my top suspect. No explanation.

Tickle me curious!

In post 1114, farside22 wrote:
In post 1113, Hectic wrote:
In post 1099, momo wrote:
In post 1087, Hectic wrote:You don't just go from townreading someone and advocating not lynching them today (all of the above), to being "99%" sure they're scum. This is exactly the sort of false bravado and confidence scum like to exhibit, and sometimes gets them townread:
I disagree with this. Scum will try and keep their reads as consistent as possible to avoid suspicion, especially a player as active as ABR. It's hard to read ABR this game, but the fact that he was willing to make a noted change to his reads as the game progressed has to be counted as townpoints, def not scummy.
This isn't true as a blanket statement at all, and varies from player to player. Are you aware of Albert's meta? Regardless, you need to look at each instance independently, and see if the switch is justified. Does his flip look justified based on that post I made? I really don't see it at all. I only surround myself with grey flags; you wouldn't find a red flag within touching distance of me.

VOTE: Albert

I want to hear the case, Albert.

This makes no sense.
If you think he is scum you should explain why.

In other news bm is warming my heart.
VOTE: xtoxm

In post 1122, Morning Tweet wrote:I love it BM! Interesting that your gutread on Momo overrides the other scumleans, which have reasoning behind them. But i dont find that suspicious, im actually viewing that as a towny thing. i do feel like momo is one of those players who just kinda emits a scummy baseline regardless of alignment, though.

VOTE: Xtom

Pedit: maaan, am i gonna have to reevaluate iDany?

Albert B. Rampage · Post Post #1128 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:11 pm

In post 1121, GuiltyLion wrote:and the more I think on it the more I think Hectic is town. I really don't think he'd be so sloppy as scum to take the angle he took with A50, disagreeing with his scumread over reasoning to scumread a mutual scumread. That feels too disorganized to me to be an artificial thought process.

This is what happens when you overanalyze and get scared off a real wagon.

MT, you finally have the numbers for a bandwagon on a player on your list and you run off and vote Xtoxm?

The players in this game are not ready for mafia.

We're playing at a high level here. If you read Hectic's posts over again and still don't see it, then after a few days, you will be taken by the hand, and explained to like a 5 year old. Sit tight. Until then, if you start to see what everyone else is seeing, you can join the lynch on scum.

Battle Mage · Post Post #1129 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:16 pm

In post 1123, farside22 wrote:
In post 1119, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 761, farside22 wrote:
In post 756, Pine wrote:On a similar note, can someone walk me through the BM wagon?
Gut/slimmy feeling when i see him buddy up to tweet.
I have a weird reason as well that I'd rather not explain.
Farside, I would really like to know this weird reason please. Thanks!
You are being way to nice and it is really making me think you are trying to please people. I remember you being more antagonistic in the past and this BM is someone I don't recognize. it gives me the hebbie jebbies.

Aww shucks...I think!

I was actually meaning to drop you a PM outside the game (obviously not about the game!), but I'd better not now if you'll consider that scummy!

And to be fair, that's a very valid and observant read, so maybe you should vote for me!

Battle Mage · Post Post #1130 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:17 pm

In post 1128, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1121, GuiltyLion wrote:and the more I think on it the more I think Hectic is town. I really don't think he'd be so sloppy as scum to take the angle he took with A50, disagreeing with his scumread over reasoning to scumread a mutual scumread. That feels too disorganized to me to be an artificial thought process.
This is what happens when you overanalyze and get scared off a real wagon.

MT, you finally have the numbers for a bandwagon on a player on your list and you run off and vote Xtoxm?

The players in this game are not ready for mafia.

We're playing at a high level here. If you read Hectic's posts over again and still don't see it, then after a few days, you will be taken by the hand, and explained to like a 5 year old. Sit tight. Until then, if you start to see what everyone else is seeing, you can join the lynch on scum.

Boss - Momo is scum. Trust BM.

farside22 · Post Post #1131 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:17 pm

In post 1127, Battle Mage wrote:Farside happy with BM readslist. Votes for Xtoxm - not my top suspect. No explanation.
MorningTweet happy with BM readslist. Votes for Xtoxm - not my top suspect. No explanation.

Tickle me curious!

In post 1114, farside22 wrote:
In post 1113, Hectic wrote:
In post 1099, momo wrote:
In post 1087, Hectic wrote:You don't just go from townreading someone and advocating not lynching them today (all of the above), to being "99%" sure they're scum. This is exactly the sort of false bravado and confidence scum like to exhibit, and sometimes gets them townread:
I disagree with this. Scum will try and keep their reads as consistent as possible to avoid suspicion, especially a player as active as ABR. It's hard to read ABR this game, but the fact that he was willing to make a noted change to his reads as the game progressed has to be counted as townpoints, def not scummy.
This isn't true as a blanket statement at all, and varies from player to player. Are you aware of Albert's meta? Regardless, you need to look at each instance independently, and see if the switch is justified. Does his flip look justified based on that post I made? I really don't see it at all. I only surround myself with grey flags; you wouldn't find a red flag within touching distance of me.

VOTE: Albert

I want to hear the case, Albert.

This makes no sense.
If you think he is scum you should explain why.

In other news bm is warming my heart.
VOTE: xtoxm

In post 1122, Morning Tweet wrote:I love it BM! Interesting that your gutread on Momo overrides the other scumleans, which have reasoning behind them. But i dont find that suspicious, im actually viewing that as a towny thing. i do feel like momo is one of those players who just kinda emits a scummy baseline regardless of alignment, though.

VOTE: Xtom

Pedit: maaan, am i gonna have to reevaluate iDany?

Well since Xtoxm has called me out, he has basically been floating through this game and doing nothing else game relevant. Seeing a lot of softball questions and I see no scum hunting or figuring players out. I haven't see him really push anyone as scum and looks like floating by scum.

Albert B. Rampage · Post Post #1132 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:18 pm

In post 1126, Battle Mage wrote:"Why else would we not know our hoodmates?"

This post of pisskop is entirely consistent with him not being in a hood. Pisskop is either lying consistently or is town.

You should look at Hectic AGAIN.

farside22 · Post Post #1133 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:18 pm

In post 1129, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1123, farside22 wrote:
In post 1119, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 761, farside22 wrote:
In post 756, Pine wrote:On a similar note, can someone walk me through the BM wagon?
Gut/slimmy feeling when i see him buddy up to tweet.
I have a weird reason as well that I'd rather not explain.
Farside, I would really like to know this weird reason please. Thanks!
You are being way to nice and it is really making me think you are trying to please people. I remember you being more antagonistic in the past and this BM is someone I don't recognize. it gives me the hebbie jebbies.
Aww shucks...I think! I was actually meaning to drop you a PM outside the game (obviously not about the game!), but I'd better not now if you'll consider that scummy!

And to be fair, that's a very valid and observant read, so maybe you should vote for me!

Outside the game I would find it very nice and sincere.
See no trust in mafia.

Battle Mage · Post Post #1134 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:19 pm

In post 1124, Hectic wrote: Sigh, I guess we'll find out. I'm actually gonna go back on Elsa for now. Want him to come back and wow us.

Battle Mage being really friendly is completely NAI nowadays btw. He just has that star quality about him now. Would be the protagonist if Gamma didn't exist.

VOTE: Elsa Jay

I have no idea what you mean above. Please explain, preferably with reference to any games of mine you have been in, or read? Otherwise I may vote you for outright making stuff up.

Albert B. Rampage · Post Post #1135 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:20 pm

In post 714, pisskop wrote:meh

VOTE: pine

Posts like this make pisskop look scummy. He needs to join the HECTIC WINWAGON.

Albert B. Rampage · Post Post #1136 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:21 pm

In post 1134, Battle Mage wrote:Otherwise I may vote you for outright making stuff up.

THE FIRE RISES

Battle Mage · Post Post #1137 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:22 pm

In post 1132, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1126, Battle Mage wrote:"Why else would we not know our hoodmates?"
This post of pisskop is entirely consistent with him not being in a hood. Pisskop is either lying consistently or is town.

You should look at Hectic AGAIN.

I disagree re: Pisskop, Boss. Taken at face value, it is

not

entirely consistent with him not being in a hood. It explicitly implies he

is

in a hood. Definitely scummy.

I don't necessarily think you're wrong on Hectic, but he doesn't scream scum to me like say....Momo.

Albert B. Rampage · Post Post #1138 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:23 pm

In post 1137, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1132, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1126, Battle Mage wrote:"Why else would we not know our hoodmates?"
This post of pisskop is entirely consistent with him not being in a hood. Pisskop is either lying consistently or is town.

You should look at Hectic AGAIN.
I disagree re: Pisskop, Boss. Taken at face value, it is
not
entirely consistent with him not being in a hood. It explicitly implies he
is
in a hood. Definitely scummy.

I don't necessarily think you're wrong on Hectic, but he doesn't scream scum to me like say....Momo.

Why do you think it implies hes in a hood?

BM, vote Hectic. When he answers your query he will have added pressure, and more players will see the bigger cracks in his game. Join the winwagon.

Battle Mage · Post Post #1139 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:24 pm

In post 1135, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 714, pisskop wrote:meh

VOTE: pine
Posts like this make pisskop look scummy. He needs to join the HECTIC WINWAGON.

In post 1136, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1134, Battle Mage wrote:Otherwise I may vote you for outright making stuff up.
THE FIRE RISES

Town or scum, you're the best dude.

GuiltyLion · Post Post #1140 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:26 pm

In post 1132, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1126, Battle Mage wrote:"Why else would we not know our hoodmates?"
This post of pisskop is entirely consistent with him not being in a hood. Pisskop is either lying consistently or is town.

You should look at Hectic AGAIN.

I feel you're implying there's some slip regarding Hectic giving away knowledge of hood info, and so I'm trying to reread with that in mind, but I'm not seeing it so will likely need this explained to me lol

I don't know if it's because I'm not in any hoods or not that makes it hard for me to follow you here

Hectic · Post Post #1141 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:26 pm

In post 1134, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1124, Hectic wrote: Sigh, I guess we'll find out. I'm actually gonna go back on Elsa for now. Want him to come back and wow us.

Battle Mage being really friendly is completely NAI nowadays btw. He just has that star quality about him now. Would be the protagonist if Gamma didn't exist.

VOTE: Elsa Jay

I have no idea what you mean above. Please explain, preferably with reference to any games of mine you have been in, or read? Otherwise I may vote you for outright making stuff up.

It's on an alt. Can't say more

Battle Mage · Post Post #1142 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:28 pm

In post 1138, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1137, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1132, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1126, Battle Mage wrote:"Why else would we not know our hoodmates?"
This post of pisskop is entirely consistent with him not being in a hood. Pisskop is either lying consistently or is town.

You should look at Hectic AGAIN.
I disagree re: Pisskop, Boss. Taken at face value, it is
not
entirely consistent with him not being in a hood. It explicitly implies he
is
in a hood. Definitely scummy.

I don't necessarily think you're wrong on Hectic, but he doesn't scream scum to me like say....Momo.
Why do you think it implies hes in a hood?

He's using the 2nd person - "we" and "our" implies he is part of the hood. Because he doesn't have a hood, one would expect him to use the 3rd person "you" and "your". It would have taken a conscious effort to use the wrong tense, and so it was clearly a deliberate decision to falsely imply he was part of a hood. It's dishonest, and dishonesty is scummy.

I want to hear your thoughts on momomo!

Albert B. Rampage · Post Post #1143 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:29 pm

In post 1141, Hectic wrote:
In post 1134, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1124, Hectic wrote: Sigh, I guess we'll find out. I'm actually gonna go back on Elsa for now. Want him to come back and wow us.

Battle Mage being really friendly is completely NAI nowadays btw. He just has that star quality about him now. Would be the protagonist if Gamma didn't exist.

VOTE: Elsa Jay

I have no idea what you mean above. Please explain, preferably with reference to any games of mine you have been in, or read? Otherwise I may vote you for outright making stuff up.
It's on an alt. Can't say more

Oh man. You guys are being fooled by

this guy

? Really?

Battle Mage · Post Post #1144 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:29 pm

In post 1141, Hectic wrote:
In post 1134, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1124, Hectic wrote: Sigh, I guess we'll find out. I'm actually gonna go back on Elsa for now. Want him to come back and wow us.

Battle Mage being really friendly is completely NAI nowadays btw. He just has that star quality about him now. Would be the protagonist if Gamma didn't exist.

VOTE: Elsa Jay

I have no idea what you mean above. Please explain, preferably with reference to any games of mine you have been in, or read? Otherwise I may vote you for outright making stuff up.
It's on an alt. Can't say more

You are allowed to say who your alts are...

Does anyone else know who Hectic's alts are?

GuiltyLion · Post Post #1145 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:30 pm

BM I was gonna wait for pisskop to address this but - I agree with you he was falsely implying he was in a hood, but I don't agree that's necessarily scummy. When you pointed out the contradiction I thought to myself he may have just been trying to maintain ambiguity about whether or not he was in a hood to hide that info from scum.

Battle Mage · Post Post #1146 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:30 pm

Hectic - if you're town, quit fooling around and vote Momo, or at least discuss his play to date, and my comments on Pisskop.

Albert B. Rampage · Post Post #1147 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:32 pm

In post 159, pisskop wrote:So far we know there are two hoods. If you also dont know who is in your hood than it sounds like scum could well be in them or watching them. Why else would we not know our hoodmates?

The full quote in context seems far more rhetorical to me. I don't see this as you say.

Battle Mage · Post Post #1148 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:36 pm

In post 1145, GuiltyLion wrote:BM I was gonna wait for pisskop to address this but - I agree with you he was falsely implying he was in a hood, but I don't agree that's necessarily scummy. When you pointed out the contradiction I thought to myself he may have just been trying to maintain ambiguity about whether or not he was in a hood to hide that info from scum.

I also had that thought, but if you wanted to maintain ambiguity you could either:

A. Not comment on it. This would make sense, given Pisskop claimed it wasn't productive to discuss anyway.
B. Use different language entirely, for example "Why else would neighbours/people in da hood not know their hoodmates?"

So I don't buy it - he deliberately used wording to imply he WAS in a hood, when he WASN'T. I can't work out the motivation really, as clearly he couldn't have carried the lie too far. But I guess I'd suggest he simply panicked and didn't want to draw attention to himself as being the odd one out, so lied to fit in.

Albert B. Rampage · Post Post #1149 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:37 pm

In post 1126, Battle Mage wrote:Momo is MODERATE SCUM - Hard to really quantify, mostly a strong gut feeling. I just get super scummy vibes from his posting, including the wording used. Something to meta later. Could definitely see him as scum with Danyboy. And potentially with VaultDweller

Tell me more