Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[Tanner]

Town having two Millers with no ways to confirm either one of them (i.e. - without something like a Rolecop) cannot be Normal as it basically gives scum 2 free mislynches.

Well this is already quite a controversial situation to consider, if consulting the wiki...

The foremost use of Millers is to weaken the power of a Cop.

+

Less commonly, a Miller may be put into a game without a Cop, as a red herring.

+

Self-aware Millers may also be considered Named Townies, as there is usually not more than one in a setup.

So, considering two Millers and no cop would sort of be a double-bummer for town anyway.

Yes, exactly. So going even further, two Millers with no Rolecop, is broken.

You still haven't answered my question about your read on Panda?

[mavsfan41]

@Prana: I figured out why I’m tunneling, it’s cause almost all of your posts have to do with discussing the game set up and responding to other players’ post without suspecting or voting anyone. The only players you’ve voted for outside of RVS was Perisivul and that happened twice. Other than that, you haven’t actually really pushed anyone or really suspected anyone. This seems like a very sneaky way to be a form of lurking with high volume of posts. It strikes me as scummy.

[Riabi]

What do your reads look like right now? Or just thoughts on the game?

Honestly, I'm very confused by this game right now. I haven't had time since D2 started to go back and read the whole thing, but, I need to do that. I was pretty certain that one of Drew or mavs was lying and now that Drew is dead and mavs is basically confirmed, I need to start from scratch.

My biggest scum read at the moment though is probably Prana. His insistence that Pers and mavs MUST be aligned is weird. Like, yeah, I understand that they probably are aligned (and probably town), but, to insist so strongly that they must be doesn't make sense to me.

[Riabi]

EBWOP: Mavs also brings out a good point about Prana. I'm reluctant to vote for anyone right now before I re-read the game, but FOS on Prana for sure.

[Luca Blight]

Will catch up in a few hours.

[mavsfan41]

@GB what are you trying to say by saying that I'm being opportunistic? You think I'm opportunistic scum? Then where's the vote?

I think your votes feel very opportunistic so far.

So far your two votes have been on me and Drew.

I think you’ve got the right idea about Knightmare voting opportunistically, but how do you feel about Panda? The textbook opportunistic vote would be me day 2 after Drew-Sta flipped miller.

So I have to ask the question. Do we think there are two millers
VOTE: mav

And when Percivul cleared me, he had to pick a new target....

I don't know maybe I'm going with my guy here. But I still feel this is scum
VOTE: UnabombaH

Something about them and their iso in day1 just didn't rub me the right way I can have more later.

Methinks their “gut” feeling was that UnaBombaH attracted attention with no real reason.

@UnaBombaH: if Luca/Panda are the scum team, thanks for being their idea of an easy mislynch!

I don’t disagree that Knightmare’s voting patterns are opportunistic, I just find Red Panda’s blatantly more opportunistic.

[mavsfan41]

EBWODP: when I say “with no real reason” in context to Panda’s vote of UnaBombaH, I mean Panda just threw it on. I didn’t mean that there was no real reason UnaBombaH drew attention.

[mavsfan41]

EBWOP: Mavs also brings out a good point about Prana. I'm reluctant to vote for anyone right now before I re-read the game, but FOS on Prana for sure.

Any thoughts on the Luca Blight wagon forming?

[Red Panda]

You make it seem like me putting a vote down is scummy. So thanks for that. And you think I'm that simple to push a lynch. The fact that I put a vote out there and you want to twist it for going off of a feeling reading back on day 1 I can build the case of you would love to see it and entertain it. But wouldn't you be an easier mislynch if I'm heading for this? Due to fact you are a second miller in this game?

Also where's Wake our Conftown? You know maybe this is why the scum team didn't take the shot at them thinking about this. They are barely here at the moment.

Simple question if I vote everyone in this game is that now scummy?

You even claim it yourself Mavs. "the opportunity vote is to vote me" so why wouldn't I take the easy target if I'm scum? And just push for your hanging?

[Luca Blight]

@Luca: your 406, 406, 410, and 415 ALL throw shade on UnaBombaH but you don’t vote him. Why not? Your only vote came via RVS and that’s where you left it. I understand you were catching up but aside from UnaBombaH (who you don’t decide to vote) you really don’t offer much. This strikes me as scum trying to fence sit.

Your 366 post is strange too. You agree with a post that has been heavily criticized for being lazy and has lead players to vote Saladman27.

Outside of 367 you don’t even bother with acknowledging Drew. This seems scum allowing Drew to be lynched without being part of the lynch.

Vote: Luca Blight

1) one of the Miller claims needed lynching D1 regardless, hence why I didn’t vote anyone else. I was planning to Iso more players in the same manner but ran out of time/motivation to do so.

2) what’s strange about that? Just because others disliked that post doesn’t mean I should necessarily agree.

3) I was under the assumption that Drew was scum following the cc. I didn’t feel the need to Iso him deeply when his lynch was inevitable.

[Tanner]

Luca, can you talk to me more about your thoughts of the game? You said I was your strongest TR yesterday, does that still hold true? What do you think about my suspicions of Panda and the Knightmare/Riabi/Prana trio?

[Luca Blight]

I’ll catch up in a few hours and get back to you.

[Not Known 15]

Vote Count 2.1

Riabi (0)

GeorgeBailey (1)Knightmare491;

mavsfan41 (0)

Luca Blight (3)mavsfan41;UnaBombaH;Tanner;

UnaBombaH (1)Red Panda;

PranaDevil (0)

Knightmare491 (1)GeorgeBailey;

Persivul (0)

Red Panda

Saladman27

(0)

Wake88

(0)

Tanner (0)

NoLynch(0)

Not Voting(5):Riabi;Luca Blight;Persivul;

Wake88

;PranaDevil;

With 11 alive it is 6 to lynch

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2020-05-01 10:50:00) or when a lynch has been achieved.

[PranaDevil]

I'll be busy most of today, so my checking in will more be to check the song contest page than this I'm afraid. If I have time later I'll try and do some checking over everything up to now, and if not, I'll make time tomorrow.

[Knightmare491]

WAIT, @Tanner your username is a ref from Driver SF?
It just clicked because of your title.

[Knightmare491]

Both on wagons gaining traction. It feels like you only want a safe place to park your vote. And both are very safe wagons.

VOTE: Knightmare491

Thank you for scum claiming with this OMGUS vote. I'm the only vote on you, how does that count as a "wagon gaining traction?"

[mavsfan41]

@Red Panda: Prana Devil mentioned this too in 544, but I’m not entirely sure I would've been lynched today had Persivul not claimed role cop and confirmed my miller role. Entering the day, two people had voted and neither on me (Knightmare vote George and Tanner voted you). Drew flipping miller would actually give more credit to my miller CC. Why would scum!mavs CC an actual miller knowing he’ll flip miller? Voting me is the opportunistic vote sure, but idk if it’s the greatest vote. You can’t push for my lynch for the fact that Persivul cleared me. No one would vote with you regardless of how hard you tried. So you must find another mislynch target which brings me to:

So why did you vote UnaBombaH? The “gut feeling” might be you bread crumbing you’re a cop with a guilty on UnaBombaH but I know that’s NOT the case or you just would’ve got to him and not voted me first.

[PranaDevil]

Drew flipping miller would actually give more credit to my miller CC.

No it wouldn't.

Why would scum!mavs CC an actual miller knowing he’ll flip miller?

You mean if scum have day talk an planned it?

You can’t push for my lynch for the fact that Persivul cleared me. No one would vote with you regardless of how hard you tried.

A great reason for scum to make a ploy that their rolecop investigated you. While investigating elsewhere, either for a proper target tonight, or to know who is "safe" to announce as vanilla when pushed.

There's only a few days of mislynching for scum to win, In a game with 13 players, let's say 3 are scum. That's 4 total mislynches for us to lose (even if the doc succeeds one night). We've got one out of the way. Scum rolecop "confirms" the "miller" as town, and investigates elsewhere. They hit a PR they kill it tonight, then wait to see what their next investigation brings.

If they hit a VT, then tomorrow they clear the VT, and that VT agrees they must be town, while they kill anyone who they've not already targeted. At this point they can bring the game to LYLO without really breaking a sweat, and if they get suspicion on them they try and turn it around on whoever is accusing them (see above). If they didn't hit a VT, they search that night, and either are forced to "announce" a PR they hit, or they hit a VT and can safely announce it still.

In LYLO, they end up being their group or "confirmed" town (which would be the fake miller, the scum rolecop, and the confirmed VT/PR) making it very easy to steer a mislynch.

I think whatever happens today, if we have a cop, they have to, without fail, investigate Persivul.

[Tanner]

WAIT, @Tanner your username is a ref from Driver SF?
It just clicked because of your title.

Yes! I played the original Driver as a kid, and played Driver SF back when it came out. Recently sat down to replay it, and thought the theme would nicely fit a mafia game.

Anyway, game stuff.
Prana, you almost seem hellbent on making Persi/mavs a viable mislynch. What's up?

First, a Rolecop cannot "clear" a VT. Rolecop gets a "Vanilla" result when investigating a VT, same as when investigating a Mafia Goon. Furthermore, if scum doesn't start dropping and we start to approach LyLo, there is going to be a massclaim at some point. And it's gonna become clear that they're lying.

I think I'mma go back to my pet scumread while we're waiting for Luca to come back. I don't want Luca to be scum.

VOTE: Knightmare

[Wake1]

Still here.

Still alive.

Still IC.

Where we at?

[Tanner]

We have had no new claims. I'm convinced that (1) both Persi and mavs are Town for their claims and (2) that all scum is in {Panda, Luca, Knight, Riabi, Prana}, somewhat in that order. Please do something game related.

[Red Panda]

So why did you vote UnaBombaH? The “gut feeling” might be you bread crumbing you’re a cop with a guilty on UnaBombaH but I know that’s NOT the case or you just would’ve got to him and not voted me first.

Ill get back to you on this I'm currently going to be away for a day well the rest of today and will have this for you later.

[Red Panda]

Otherwise I'm going to make a mess of the thread and go from there. later.

Thing is what makes you think we have a cop though given the setup with 2 millers. Rolecop makes sense in the big picture.

@Red Panda: Prana Devil mentioned this too in 544, but I’m not entirely sure I would've been lynched today had Persivul not claimed role cop and confirmed my miller role. Entering the day, two people had voted and neither on me (Knightmare vote George and Tanner voted you). Drew flipping miller would actually give more credit to my miller CC.

Why would scum!mavs CC an actual miller knowing he’ll flip miller?

Voting me is the opportunistic vote sure, but idk if it’s the greatest vote.

You can’t push for my lynch for the fact that Persivul cleared me.

No one would vote with you regardless of how hard you tried. So you must find another mislynch target which brings me to:

So why did you vote UnaBombaH? The “gut feeling” might be you bread crumbing you’re a cop with a guilty on UnaBombaH but I know that’s NOT the case or you just would’ve got to him and not voted me first.

But before I go. I don't see any reason on how you are cleared if anything though. If anything I'm more confused about it now then anything else. Even with the rolecop claim I don't see how you couldn't have faked the claim as well. I don't get how drew flipping miller would give you more credit. If anything it raised more doubt about you as two millers in the same game just seems a bit weird and obtuse but then again this is a normal.

The answer to the bold: Because you know its a safe claim if you are a goon you have nothing to fear if anything at all. How is it opportunistic? Its not at all its merely putting my vote where my SR is at the moment cause if Tanner is at the moment they are just leading the town around and no one seems to be interested in someone like that though there is still more time for the game to play out.

Once again you aren't cleared. I don't know you claimed this at all. The only clear is the IC who's done nothing at all.

[mavsfan41]

Both on wagons gaining traction. It feels like you only want a safe place to park your vote. And both are very safe wagons.

VOTE: Knightmare491

Thank you for scum claiming with this OMGUS vote. I'm the only vote on you, how does that count as a "wagon gaining traction?"

I’m not quite sure I buy this. Although I haven’t voted George, I was pushing that wagon for awhile and he never really OMGUS’ed me. Not sure I believe the reasoning for his vote here is an OMGUS.

Join UnaBombaH and I and vote Luca.

[UnaBombaH]

I think whatever happens today, if we have a cop, they have to, without fail, investigate Persivul.

Again, a heavy,

heavy NO to this

. Such an idiotic thing to suggets.

What would you assume the result would be, eh?
Maybe "guilty" to a Cop, eh?
THE EXACT SAME RESULT A COP WOULD GET FROM A MILLER AND SCUM ALIKE?