Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[Knightmare491]

caught up*

[popopopopopopo]

ok im caught up, some thoughts

I believe mavs is a miller, the rolecop claim is slightly more up in the air, but the argument someone made that it would be far easier for scum to sit back and mislynch the miller today then claim rolecop and clear them makes enough sense to me for now.

in a game with a confirmed town player, there has to be a reason farside was nightkilled.

Okay. I dont see much else needed.
Scum reads: red panda, luca, knight/persivul.

Im more confident of my rd scum read. I may expect better from persivul so my scum read maybe bias.

Vote: drew

I don't see people ending the wifom for drew.

look for scum in here

the other thing to look at is drew wagon

Persivul;mavsfan41;Knightmare491;Riabi;farside22;GeorgeBailey;UnaBombaH

were on the wagon

Drew-Sta;Luca Blight;Tanner;PranaDevil;Red Panda;Wake88;

were off the wagon (wake is obviously town, drew is dead)

as it looks like there are actually two millers, I'd think scums best move day 1 would be to let town eat itself, and gain town cred by being off the mislynch wagon.

people who farside scumread who were also off the mislynch wagon: Red Panda, Luca Blight

Luca blight is my slot, i know my alignment. panda also has some sus posts

Why does drews post bother you?
How do you get to that conclusion based on tanners comment.

Drew just seems to have accepted their fate. Its just almost sad that they are giving up as a caught scum though there is no real issue with it. Knowing this couldn't mav just be a backup as well for Mafia I believe I has saw it in the Normal list.
Sorry I'm not one for normals a lot of the time and its just something I look at.

Reading back Ill take the comment about tanner comes across as scum hunting with the exception of the push onto Drew but then again Drew is looking like a fish out of water at the moment. Well rather has been for a while in this game.

i dont know how you could read drews posts at the time and say that he is caught scum who accepted his fate. Also in #343 redpanda said he is "all for a drew wagon" and in this post calls him caught scum. where was the vote??? and then in #481, redpanda immediately parks his vote on mavs, which is just way too easy.

then in #546 redpanda votes una, saying he still feels he is scum. ONE PROBLEM, he had never voiced any suspicion of Una before this!

Question to everyone... do we know if the scum have day talk?

I don’t know if I’m tunneling too much onto Prana Devil but this is awkward. There’s no really reason to bring this up with the context of what he’s said in the rest of the post other than to slip this in there to play innocent “if I ask about day talk, it suggests I’m not scum or I’d know the answer.”

Actually.. if there's day talk, the "why would scum fake claim miller?" strategy is blown out of the water. If the scum have day talk, it's entirely possible that scum have a rolecop, and suggested someone fake claim miller, and roll with the rolecop "clearing" the miller.

Day talk would literally allow the scum to bypass stressing about how to off someone.

It's guarenteed the first miller claim would be lynched after a CC. When Drew flipped town, it's nigh on guaranteed that town would look at the other miller, it was as much as said so the day before. But what if the plan was always for the scum rolecop to claim right after?

I think a full read through is in order.

I'm very unhappy with how mavs immediately is trying to get me lynched by taking my stuff out of context, and he's doing it very deliberately, as even after explaining the facts to him, he's continuing to claim something else entirely. It's shifty as hell, and I'm wondering if scum made one hell of a ploy.

Now... if there's day talk, that's the only way I would see that working, I cannot see scum working that out independently, it would be too risky, but it would work really well if they were passing info back and forth.

Admittedly, if scum have daytalk, and a rolecop, I wonder where the town PRs are, because that would leave us with a miller and an IC. I'd expect at bare minimum a cop (due to the miller), but of course, that also means the cop would need to check Persivul tonight to make certain they're not screwing about town.

this useless setup spec is not helpful, but its a good way to avoid scumhunting and look like youre doing something productive. same with the doctor talk, honestly prana looks like hes hunting for PRs at points today.\

Knight's first post of the game looked like a manufactured reason to enter the thread to me, and his day 1 posting wasnt great, and he was in Farside's scumreads. But his posts today have been better, and I have bigger fish to fry.

scumreads - redpanda, prana, knight (in that order)

townreads - persi, mavs, GB, Una (im tired i will try and work out a few more townreads tomorrow)

vote: redpanda

[Red Panda]

So why did you vote UnaBombaH? The “gut feeling” might be you bread crumbing you’re a cop with a guilty on UnaBombaH but I know that’s NOT the case or you just would’ve got to him and not voted me first.

Ill get back to you on this I'm currently going to be away for a day well the rest of today and will have this for you later.

I love getting votes for no reason when I said I was coming back to this....the next day...

[Tanner]

The way Salad has singled out Una/George, Panda keeps pushing Una, and the way Luca's been acting around those two slots too. Make me think s/s is unlikely there.

Honestly, I think Salad and Luca were just low-activity posting. Salad was just responding to me cause I was the one of the main focus at the time, and Luca looked like he was struggling to stay in the game. I don't think either of these slots are readable, and I think their replacements should be given new slates.

What if I told you... low activity is a scumtell for some people? How was that Salad post a response to you? And "giving new slates" to obviously scummy slots is very, very dangerous.

Doesn't look like GB is a viable lynch for today,

so, VOTE: Riabi

This slot just looks like it's happy to sit back and let town destroy itself while claiming to have not caught.

I don't really have a problem with the RP wagon, just her entry post day 2 is not something I would expect scum to make.

So... Town is destroying itself right now? BUT you also don't have a problem with the RP wagon? lol. What is your actual read on RP/Lucaslot right now?

Knight's first post of the game looked like a manufactured reason to enter the thread to me, and his day 1 posting wasnt great, and he was in Farside's scumreads. But his posts today have been better, and I have bigger fish to fry.

Please elaborate how are Knightmare's posts better today than yesterday.

[Red Panda]

Of course low activity can be accounted for a scum read but that depends by person it's not valid across the board. Is that what you are using to justify my reads aside parroting farside?

[Knightmare491]

So... Town is destroying itself right now? BUT you also don't have a problem with the RP wagon? lol. What is your actual read on RP/Lucaslot right now?

Panda slot is null for me, which is why I'm okay with it being wagoned.

Luca didn't post much, don't really get much of a read off that, wouldn't mind it being wagoned too.

[Knightmare491]

page 1 down i already have a scumread (kngithmare)

This seems like a forced read. I just asked a question in the hope of getting a discussion going if anything. How is that AI. Seems like a made up read.

[Tanner]

Of course low activity can be accounted for a scum read but that depends by person it's not valid across the board. Is that what you are using to justify my reads aside parroting farside?

And funnily enough, I know such low activity + repping out is much much closer to Salad's scum meta than town meta.

Yeah, I'm taking into account farside's reads. Besides, you were the first one to say she was probably killed for her town reads.

Do you think I'm being unfair? What's your read on me?

[Tanner]

So... Town is destroying itself right now? BUT you also don't have a problem with the RP wagon? lol. What is your actual read on RP/Lucaslot right now?

Panda slot is null for me, which is why I'm okay with it being wagoned.

Luca didn't post much, don't really get much of a read off that, wouldn't mind it being wagoned too.

Okay, so where is Town destroying itself exactly then? If you're fine with both wagons that have picked up steam on Day 2?

[Knightmare491]

I meant it more in the sense of there is no real co ordination between the votes, there is no real town bloc. People who should be relatively clear for today are being suspected, ie, Persivul.

[Red Panda]

I don't know anything about the person I replaced. But that's not the point here. Right now leaning scummy the tunnel as well as the "farside reads says scum so that is where I'm going"

[Red Panda]

I sware I hate myself. I just read Wake's iso and I want to just smack them.

[Knightmare491]

I sware I hate myself. I just read Wake's iso and I want to just smack them.

same

[mavsfan41]

@Popopo: sweet avatar! Also, you talk about the votes on Drew-Sta as where to look for scum. I keep going back on how many I think are there. It’s an easy place to vote and scum didn’t need to be on that wagon for a lynch to go through.

Knightmare’s 630 is strange and reads like scum being forced to give opinions about their scum buddies and giving generic neutral reads vs appear to defend them. I would say both are unlikely to be scum mentioned. Knightmare’s vote on Riabi also makes me not think Riabi is scum. Riabi 577 & 578 made me suspicious of him for pushing Prana but ignoring Luca and Red Panda.

Vote: Knightmare491

[Tanner]

Knightmare’s 630 is strange and reads like scum being forced to give opinions about their scum buddies and giving generic neutral reads vs appear to defend them.

I would say both are unlikely to be scum mentioned.

Knightmare’s vote on Riabi also makes me not think Riabi is scum. Riabi 577 & 578 made me suspicious of him for pushing Prana but ignoring Luca and Red Panda.

What does the bolded mean?

[mavsfan41]

Knightmare’s 630 references two players, Luca and Panda. How the post was written in providing a neutral feeling on both does seem too much of a fence sitting read. That is because I could see one of them (more likely Panda) being their scum buddy and not wanting to add suspicion to Panda so the neutral read is how to play it. The other one (more likely Luca of the two) to be a more neutral take as they’re not scum hunting. And Luca’s lurkiness i feel is more likely to yield a neutral feel. So if Knightmare is scum, I think that 630 post features forced takes on one of their scummates they are unwilling to push and the other is a cop out cause they’re not actually scum hunting.

When I voted Luca, I thought scum team was Luca/Panda and one of Riabi/Prana but after Knightmare changed to Riabi, I think it’s now possibly Knightmare/Panda and someone else. Still maybe Luca but I doubt it or possibly Prana but Prana seems to be more independent of the two.
I will say that Popopo’s catch up I liked and can’t see them being partnered with Panda. Panda is perhaps my biggest scum read right now, but I want to look into this Knightmare thing more hence where my vote is.

[popopopopopopo]

Please elaborate how are Knightmare's posts better today than yesterday.

i like his 498 a lot. his willingness to get off the GB tunnel reads as town to me also. i still find his early posts to be sus.

@Popopo: sweet avatar! Also, you talk about the votes on Drew-Sta as where to look for scum. I keep going back on how many I think are there. It’s an easy place to vote and scum didn’t need to be on that wagon for a lynch to go through.

i said scum was more likely to be off the drew-sta wagon, for the reasons you stated.

[mavsfan41]

@Popopop: idk why I missed that in the reading of your post but I saw that wagon theory later, my bad

[Persivul]

Spoiler:

...Why do you people insist on making this game more complicated than it really is?

farside was shot. She suspected Panda/Luca/Persi. Both Panda's and Luca's slots are horrible (I'd argue Panda's more so than Luca, but ya know). We swing there. Persi and mavs are of the same alignment, they're de facto cleared Town, and if (and that's a really really big if) they're scum,

it will be obvious later once actual Town PRs start coming to light.

I'm hesitant on Luca/Panda and I don't think she was killed for her scum reads. She seemed like a really obvTown player that would have easily been taken to LyLo. I think Scum thought she was an easy target to take out. But NKA is tricky because you have to know the mind behind the kills too. Some people take out Strong Townies they don't want to compete with late game, some take out people shit tunneling them.

Persivul could be a scum going for the towncred when mavs flips.
Them "clearing" mavs isn't as heavy a commitment for scum as some might imply.

Yeah, but that's something to explore much later down the line. Like, we should be sorting sus people right now. So far I don't think Persivul has acted very scummy. Also, when more PRs are outed, then it'll be abundantly clear if there's too many. (i'm guessing the PR ratio is mostly the same in normals?)

The way Salad has singled out Una/George, Panda keeps pushing Una, and the way Luca's been acting around those two slots too. Make me think s/s is unlikely there.

Honestly, I think Salad and Luca were just low-activity posting. Salad was just responding to me cause I was the one of the main focus at the time, and Luca looked like he was struggling to stay in the game. I don't think either of these slots are readable, and I think their replacements should be given new slates.

I think you’ve got the right idea about Knightmare voting opportunistically, but how do you feel about Panda? The textbook opportunistic vote would be me day 2 after Drew-Sta flipped miller.

It does feel really off, ngl. I'd say it feels more LAMIST than opportunistic though. Everyone knew double miller would be questioned, it was the focal point of D1. It seems like there was no intent to start a wagon, but rather to show off.

Methinks their “gut” feeling was that UnaBombaH attracted attention with no real reason.

The UnaBombaH vote does seem like a weird one though, but Una hasn't been especially pushed this game. So I don't really see it as scum trying to grab LHF. I think I see this more as a vanity wagon?

Thank you for scum claiming with this OMGUS vote. I'm the only vote on you, how does that count as a "wagon gaining traction?"

Because the limelight was on me at the time, and you provided minimal comments on my slot, while voting me. It honestly seems like i'm your vanity wagon right now.

All the mechanical clears aside, and only considering reads or the lack of them....Luca Blight/Tanner/Panda/George?

Tanner is a gutread I cannot shake.
There's something off with the slot, despite all their valiant, good efforts.

Honestly, we shouldn't be basing our reads off gut feelings right now lmao. That feels like D1 trying-to-get-out-of-rvs talk.

Can you go more into detail what's off about him?

This could be a new record. I don't think I've ever seen this much fence sitting in a single post before. Bravo!

[Persivul]

Conftown

Wake88

- IC doing nothing

mavsfan41

- by my understanding of normal millers, he's IC to me. I considered the way far out there idea that a scum universal backup could have made a great play there, but reading up it seems that normal UBs only inherit roles from their own faction. So, I think it's mechanically impossible for him to be scum considering normal rules and my result.

Town

(No particular order within a group)

Riabi

- When I went to make this list, I knew this guy had posted somewhat but couldn't remember what he said. That's usually a bad sign, but I read his ISO, and it looks fine.

Tanner

Knightmare491

Null

UnaBombaH
PranaDevil
GeorgeBailey

These three have all managed to put up a lot of words without really saying much at all. Not the Una I'm used to.

Luca Blight

- Had him in scum initially due to farside's read, but read his ISO and I'm not so sure. If salad slot flips red, 366 might mean luca slot is green. Scum usually aren't so obviously together in reads that early.

Scum

Red Panda

Saladman27

[Red Panda]

Can I just get more votes on me at this point. Cause it sounds like I could say anything in this game and I'm still going to get lynched at this rate...Not that I have any issues with that.
I'd just let you all know you are no closer to lynching scum then you were day one.

[Tanner]

Maybe you could instead explain your Una read that you've said you will?

[UnaBombaH]

These three have all managed to put up a lot of words without really saying much at all. Not the Una I'm used to.

I'm biding my time.
I actually have a good feeling about this game.

[PranaDevil]

Apologies for the length of this, but what mavs said earlier was right, I've done not too much scum hunting, and too much discussion about game set up (which in itself isn't bad, but by itself, helps nobody).

So this is where I'm at on my re-read:

Una #26... Still not a fan of. Jumps in, after something he could mention has happened (Tanner taking Persivul to L-2), but ignores it to call me scum and vote for Luca. He never mentions this again.

Una #61 Suggests to not have Wake vote anywhere (I'll admit I considered the idea right after)

Tanner #67 No real comment towards why a Drew vote was good, just did so. Just piggybacked on with Persivul. Extremely unhappy looking back at that.

Persivul #68 Is very much against Wake not voting due to how tough it would be to lynch scum. I mention this as it could be argued he had to make sure he didn't come off shifty by simply ignoring it if people know he normally would do it (I'm not checking other games for that info either). But, right there, it feels more town to want all the town to be able to lynch as it's harder to lynch scum if one town we know won't be on the wagon. Scum are likely to want the least town pushing for them as possible.

Persivul #92 actually feels like town giving people a heads up about the time limit. Would have been easy to just ignore it as scum.

Tanner #101 is bad, very bad. Just randomly votes Knightmare for no reason I can see.

Una #125 suggesting "we are ready for the lynch now" still rubs me up the wrong way. Less talking is good for scum, and bad for town.

farside #126 Says she found a game where two people claimed Miller, and both were town. I'm afraid she was wrong, looking at it, TwoInAMillion and MortFeld both claimed Miller. The game ended in a town win with TIAM's lynch, so he could not have been town. So still no evidence of two millers in a normal.

GB #144 Bought the double miller thing very fast.

Una #165 states he had a "reason" for not voting Drew... despite in #125 saying we are ready for the lynch. My top read is currently Una at this point as it feels like he knows Drew will turn green, and wants to avoid it.

Una #167 votes Tanner seemingly at random.

Tanner #175 Buddies George, an he did so earlier in the game too. (As stated in Drew #177)

Tanner #181 talks only about if Drew were scum, it means George is likely to be town due to a poor defense of him, while Knightmare is likely to be scum due to the "turbobus". Drew however flipped town... ScumGeorge would buy the double miller thing faster than others if he knew both were town, while Knightmare could be town or scum with the fast voting.

Knightmare #195 pulled up my #143, well after doing other responses from before, and after, that post, and only did so because Riabi did so in #192

Persivul #241 is bad. Pushing for quick lynching of Drew, and suggesting the vig doesn't shoot if we have one, which... we have a perfect vig shot in the other miller after Drew flipped green. I'd rather we fixed the miller situation over not shooting. I see no town motivation for this.

farside #248 calls Persivul scum, I'm not entirely certain I see where she's coming from based on the post she shared. I do have a similar feeling from the above (which contradicts my earlier thought from #68 and #92)

This is up to the end of page 10. I'm going to have to call it quits there for the full page reading (I plan to pick it up tomorrow).

Biggest scum reads in no real order right now (as there's plenty still to read):
Una - #165, I feel he knew Drew would flip green.
Persivul - Pushing for a quick lynch, and suggesting the vig doesn't shoot the claimed miller? Erm...
Tanner - Buddying George, only talks about scum Drew, never considered Town Drew while discussing why he was ignoring George buying the two miller thing.
GB - Bought the two miller claim way too fast.

[Tanner]

Persivul #241 is bad. Pushing for quick lynching of Drew, and suggesting the vig doesn't shoot if we have one, which... we have a perfect vig shot in the other miller after Drew flipped green. I'd rather we fixed the miller situation over not shooting.

I see no town motivation for this.

I see no town motivation for this.

Are... Are you genuinely serious right now?