Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[PranaDevil]

Persivul #241 is bad. Pushing for quick lynching of Drew, and suggesting the vig doesn't shoot if we have one, which... we have a perfect vig shot in the other miller after Drew flipped green. I'd rather we fixed the miller situation over not shooting.

I see no town motivation for this.

I see no town motivation for this.

Are... Are you genuinely serious right now?

Yes, what benefit, if we have a big, is there to suggest the big keeps the Miller alive? No "Persivul is a rolecop" is not a defence.

[Tanner]

"hey, I am a Rolecop, and usually I am somewhat useful in that I can catch scum that is fakeclaiming but since I only see role and not alignment I am nowhere near close to a Cop. Hey look, a player that claims to have a role that only Town can have! I can investigate him, and confirm him! That way if I die, the Town has a second IC!"

"i see no town motivation for this"

[PranaDevil]

So you blindly believe the Rolecop thing?

You also think that there's no way that Miller claim is going to go ignored for the rest of the game?

A rolecop for town should go elsewhere. If it IS a town rolecop... it's been outedto save a miller, and will die tonight. So at best its dumb play, at worst its scummy.

[Tanner]

I don't know if you've noticed, but if the setup is 2 Millers + Rolecop, that is literally what it was designed to do. It was designed to save the second mislynch that otherwise would've been guaranteed. You're saying a Town Rolecop should've gone elsewhere to maybe (probably not) get a few other roles to maybe maybe catch scum once massclaim comes IF they decide to fakeclaim. while scum gets 2 ez ez mislynches. like. really.

[mavsfan41]

@Prana: your 492 rejected the Persivul claim immediately. Then Tanner makes post 508 and then you agree about Persivul in your 524. Why change now? I think Perisvul (being role cop) does provide adequate reasoning for calling a quick day 1 end knowing he was planning all along to check me during the night.

If scum!Persivul was scum role cop, why would he 1) confirm me such as Tanner has mentioned 2) would use his ability to check a miller claim? He would most likely NOT investigate me if he’s scum role cop and opt to gain a better use of his night action. Now that could possibly lead to either us BOTH being scum (I know for a fact that is not the case) OR he was scum claiming I’m what I say to get town cred but again, I find it hard to believe this is the case. It does seem like a high risk gamble for a low risk reward vs just letting what happens happened.

[PranaDevil]

I'm not getting drawn into setup discussion again. You'll try and twist that into "Prana isn't scum hunting".

Let's just say, I'm not believing everything just because the claimed miller and rolecop told me to believe it.

And Mavs... really? If Persivul was a scum rolecop, why did he check you?

Right... you are aware he could lie about targeting you, right? If you are town, claiming he targeted you, while targeting elsewhere, gives him info while "clearing" you. (Read, giving him a buddy).

Or, you could be scum as well.

Admittedly, my posts from the start of day 2, to my big re-read past up to page 10, were more reactions to stuff, rather than fully keeping track (my memory is shit at the best of times). So yes, sometimes my thoughts won't quite match up. Hence I go back and reread. I also know I'm much more useful late game than early game, as my ability to scum hunt is better when evaluating past info.

[PranaDevil]

Or short answer:

Persivul is not confirmed town.

[Tanner]

okay. prana, i think you and i have very conflicting ideas and playstyles in game. sorry if i was being unpleasant.

i think it's untrue to say i didn't have reasons for voting knightmare just because i didn't outline those reasons in the same post as my vote. (fairly certain i later on said why i was voting him at the time) or that i was only talking about scum drew. drew's alignment didn't truly matter yesterday - there was a cc, and that had to get resolved.

[Persivul]

Persivul - Pushing for a quick lynch, and suggesting the vig doesn't shoot the claimed miller? Erm...

Erm...because I knew I was going to rolecop him that night maybe?

[Not Known 15]

Eve replaces Wake88

Vote Count 2.2

Riabi (1)Knightmare491;

GeorgeBailey (0)

mavsfan41 (0)

popopopopopopo

Luca Blight

(1)UnaBombaH;

UnaBombaH (1)Red Panda;

PranaDevil (0)

Knightmare491 (2)GeorgeBailey;mavsfan41;

Persivul (0)

Red Panda

Saladman27

(3)Tanner;Persivul;popopopopopopo;

Eve

Wake88

(0)

Tanner (0)

NoLynch(0)

Not Voting(3):Riabi;

Eve

;PranaDevil;

With 11 alive it is 6 to lynch

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2020-05-01 10:50:00) or when a lynch has been achieved.

[UnaBombaH]

Una #125 suggesting "we are ready for the lynch now" still rubs me up the wrong way. Less talking is good for scum, and bad for town.

Despite me making that fumble earlier, I get legitimately mad when reading this again and again.
Check my actions around that post.
I. DID. NOT. VOTE. THERE. AT. THAT. TIME.
I did it on purpose. I tried to instigate and reaction-test.
I'm done saying this over and over, but I refuse to let people storytell things about my actions without at least trying to rectify these false narratives.
You can try to force a scummy agenda behind my actions there, but I'd argue that you can't say I was being inconsistent in any way.

And the same applies to me starting the discussion about Wake not voting anywhere.
You can try and paint me scum for it, but realize that there were others who either claim to have come up with the idea themselves as well, or more or less agreed with my sentiments.
Even our IC, and they are a confirmed townie ffs, thought he shouldn't vote.

Prana is spending too much energy on my posts. The same way that Luca was.
I'm either a designated mislynch for scummies at some point down the road, or they are lost with their analytics.

[GeorgeBailey]

Tanner - Buddying George, only talks about scum Drew, never considered Town Drew while discussing why he was ignoring George buying the two miller thing.

??? He pushed me right after, asking:

George, is your first reaction to a double Miller claim "oh that's not scum indicative" as opposed to "one of them is fucking lying"?

then in 181 kinda towncased me saying it's TSTBS

[UnaBombaH]

I don't know if you've noticed, but if the setup is 2 Millers + Rolecop, that is literally what it was designed to do. It was designed to save the second mislynch that otherwise would've been guaranteed.

Setups do not work like this btw, at least not always or by design.
There are mechanics that are supposed to synergize, sure, but automatically assuming that the RC-claim is true simply because we have two claimed Millers is a dangerous path.
You should then almost assume we have a Cop somewhere, because Millers are supposed to be there to weaken the Cop.
Or you COULD still keep an open mind about the fact that mavs could be fakeclaiming Miller as scum, and Persivul claiming RC is just there to "complete" the gambit.
I just finished a game (that I can finally rant about), where one scum one went rogue

DAY 2

and claimed a guilty on one of their buddies, leading to the lynch of the other D3.
They then surfed their way to a victory in 3man LyLo, because SURELY no one would be THAT stupid to fakeclaim D2 and out their buddies, right?

The game went silly in many other ways as well, but the main point is that silly and ballsy gambits happen.
And here we have a situation where we have 0-2 liars depending on almost nothing.
And no ways to solve it other than seeing a flip.
AND Persivuls actions D1 fit both - a rolecop wanting to get a result rather than seeing a Vig kill their target, but also a scumbuddy wanting to protect the gambit.

[UnaBombaH]

It just hit me btw.
Assume Persivul really checked mavs.
He risked the fact that there WAS indeed a Vig, and his result would've been for nothing.

[GeorgeBailey]

It just hit me btw.
Assume Persivul really checked mavs.
He risked the fact that there WAS indeed a Vig, and his result would've been for nothing.

Well, he did ask the possible vig not to shoot in 241

[UnaBombaH]

Well, he did ask the possible vig not to shoot in 241

..and I told people multiple times why I did what I did D1, and I still get called scummy for it, so if I were a Rolecop here, I wouldn't count on it.

Also, what I mean by this is that scum!Persivul would risk nothing by simply waiting to see whether mavs dies at night or not, and then choosing to do this part of the gambit if mavs lives.
Now, the still_assumed_Vig (gated by even nights / maybe starting N2 etc etc) would have no reason to shoot mavs N3 onwards.
And consider this: persivul is just postponing the mavs-flip, and actually making no difference to mavs' alignment if they ever flip scum themself.
So if we ever decided to lynch pers and he flips scum!Rolecop, mavs is still 50/50 based on the claims alone!

The only thing I'm pondering, is that would scum!Pers claim rolecop here without knowing whether he'd be counterclaimed or not?

[UnaBombaH]

If this setup only has one Miller, and mavs+pers are scum together, then it would make some sense.
But only if they wanted to do it like this all along.
Basically the biggest risk was that mavs would've been lynched D1/shot by a Vig N1, because persivul obv. didn't claim before he saw how D2 would start.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm getting caught up in theories here, sorry about that.

I still think the Luca-slot would be the most reasonable lynch unless they blow me away with their content today.
Panda and Tanner are next in line for me, but I'd rather want Panda today for being a silly goose.

[PranaDevil]

The only thing I'm pondering, is that would scum!Pers claim rolecop here without knowing whether he'd be counterclaimed or not?

If he's a scum rolecop, yes.

[Persivul]

It just hit me btw.
Assume Persivul really checked mavs.
He risked the fact that there WAS indeed a Vig, and his result would've been for nothing.

First, the vig is just idle speculation. The amount of mileage that speculation has received is ridiculous.
Second, even with a vig, N1 is the safest time. They tend to be novice or even night lately. I (as rabid schnauzer) was a vig in a mini normal very recently, and I was novice.

I was more concerned with a scum RB.

[mavsfan41]

I'm getting caught up in theories here, sorry about that.

I still think the Luca-slot would be the most reasonable lynch unless they blow me away with their content today.
Panda and Tanner are next in line for me, but I'd rather want Panda today for being a silly goose.

Could you please explain your thoughts on Tanner? I know you voted him day 1 (with no real explanation).

Also, the amount of people saying that you’re scum I think is just too large a pool and that would suggest you’re acting alone (aka town). I think scum sees you as low hanging fruit and with the amount of speculation that you might be scum, scum can vote here or throw suspicion at your slot at no real risk I feel cause you’re a popular target for suspicion. Eventually I’ll go through the game and see who haven’t thrown suspicion on you and see if I think those players are sorta scummy and they’re your partners if you are scum, but right now I just can’t see you being scum with almost the entire player roster suspecting you.

[Red Panda]

I think scum sees you as low hanging fruit and with the amount of speculation that you might be scum, scum can vote here or throw suspicion at your slot at no real risk I feel cause you’re a popular target for suspicion. Eventually I’ll go through the game and see who haven’t thrown suspicion on you and see if I think those players are sorta scummy and they’re your partners if you are scum, but right now I just can’t see you being scum with almost the entire player roster suspecting you.

Im in the middle of writing a post up and I'm reading this.

But you think they are low hanging fruit?

Can't the same be said about me and the luca slot as well since they are the ones currently being scum read though?

[mavsfan41]

@Una: 225 is the closest you come saying why you suspect Tanner but that strikes me based more off comments Tanner made during RVS. Surely your read has developed more than that. The only other thing I could think of is an OMGUS after his 67 and follow up in 132 asking for an explanation about a joke RVS post.

[mavsfan41]

@Panda: they’re not quite the same. UnaBombaH is attracting almost everyone. (Again, I’ll try to come up with an all inclusive list of players who have suspected him via throwing him at the top of their scum list or voted him in a serious way when I have some time.) Luca was getting scum read cause of his fence sitting with UnaBombaH and pushing but not quite voting. You’re getting vibes cause of what I see as exclusively voting opportunistically. UnaBombaH has sorta stuck to the same several people. And you have actually voted UnaBombaH which does read more like you targeting low hanging fruit as scum which I think would be why you would target him.

You also severely mischaracterized Drew-Sta’s late day 1 posts in 370. This strikes me more of what scum would do trying to rush a lynch of Drew vs what Persivul did (which attracted scummy vibes as advocating for a quick lynch). Persivul, if he’s the role cop, would want the day to end quicker so that night he can target me and sort it out that way via having everyone discuss it when he was all but certain to have a resolution at night. That would make sense from his POV as the role cop. Mischaracterizing Drew’s posts the way you did strikes me as more malicious behavior for town.

[Red Panda]

First off: The more I think about this the rolecop would make sense to be town aligned and I am enticed to believe the claim none the less. Just on the principal of how it seems the roles are in this game. A bit all over the place.

I keep thinking back to asking if scum have daytalk as a way to throw suspicion off of them in an effort to gain town cred which Im not genuinely a fan of. The more I think about this as well I'm inclined to believe in Mav's claim of miller with role cop. I'll take that chance and believe the rolecop claim as well to be town aligned. Which in turn gives us two semi-conf town. I refuse to adknowledge Wake because a bump on a log does so much more then the worthless IC we have.


Reading #577 From Riabi I acually like but for other reasons if anything. I just don't get why you wouldn't put a vote down. I guess it bothers me a bit since that is the greatest weapon and is good to look at later of all things.

I feel this is going to be more of a recap then anything but I need to get the thoughts out more then anything else due to the fact I know I am suspect number one.


My biggest reason for voting Una is #61 where they say "but what if we all agree that Wake doesn't vote for anyone today?" This bothers me looking back on it due to Wake did absoutely nothing and we gave them a free pass for Day 1 and its apparently scum can keep this bump on a log more then anything else.

The fact that you are calling them "an easy mislynch" I believe it Mav's who said this in 580. I disagree they are easy for any real reason let alone anything else. Theres where my gut came from since you asked and I never got back to it.

I've been a bit under the weather as of late as well so its why I've not really been around as well.

Just reading their iso and I see the vote on Tanner but it looks like nothing went there and everyones giving Tanner a pass and rather its just. "Oh People are lurking they must be scum" Or even better yet "I know X's meta and this is their scum meta" Can't meta just be played into for other reasons and sometimes there is a time in the game where someone's not interested in the game or something?

You’re getting vibes cause of what I see as exclusively voting opportunistically. UnaBombaH has sorta stuck to the same several people. And you have actually voted UnaBombaH which does read more like you targeting low hanging fruit as scum which I think would be why you would target him.

Weren't we also heading up toward a deadline as well? I'm quite content for my hanging and Ill gladly claim now if that's what your expecting me to do. And Of course due to I don't play normals and wouldn't have expected a miller claim of anything to throw people off the game.