schadd_'s large normal review, April 2020

[implosion]

Primary: mastina

[schadd_]

town tracker
town comined rolestopper rolecop
town vigilante
town ascetic 2-shot alien
town universal backup
7 vanilla townie
4 mafia multitasking voyeur

[schadd_]

this is probably a very small factor but i have decided to only confirm "there will either be 3 or 4 mafia"

[schadd_]

(and no sk)

[mastina]

Balance-wise and Normalacy-wise, setup runs into the same issue; the four mafia all being the same role, which bumps the rolecop up from being a rolecop to a fully full functioning cop because any result on a scum player is instantly a guilty (because of the sheer improbability of a town multitasking voyeur), and the mafia all having the same exact role is something I am a little worried about. (It's probably fine, a setup did get run with three strongmans and a town rolecop with this being similar.)

Give the scum a different fourth role of comparable power though, and I'd give it a /pass--something not an instant guilty to the rolecop (no multitasking) but which is about the same strength as those roles.

Basically, right now, if the rolecop didn't get four hard-guilties, I'd call it balanced; with the rolecop getting four guilties, I'd call it townsided. Give the scum some sort of role not an instant guilty to the rolecop while keeping some of them the same, then it's probably fine.

[schadd_]

lol totally didnt see the interaction between rolecop and voyeur. you're right. i'll just take the rolecop part off of that role then

town tracker
town rolestopper
town vigilante
town ascetic 2-shot alien
town universal backup
7 vanilla townie
4 mafia multitasking voyeur

[mastina]

I actually think that the town needed some form of second investigative beyond the tracker to not have the game be scumsided--with the setup in 5, the tracker is incredibly unlikely to get a guilty until there's only one scum in the game, and that's if the two town roles preventing actions don't interfere. Basically, I think the setup in 5 is a little scumsided.

There's two ways I can think of to fix it;
1: Bump up the number of shots to the ascetic alien so that while the town has little in the way of investigatives its kill-denial power is much higher. (Not unlimited though. Tracker + Rolestopper + Ungated Alien = scum can never make a safe kill. The alien does need a gate, but in the setup of 5, two shots seems too low.)

2: Put in another town investigative, just not a rolecop--you could, for instance, keep the combined rolestopper...just with vanilla cop instead of rolecop.
You could even make it a Neapolitan since every scum is technically not a guilty to the Neapolitan since every scum is a power role. (That'd still be rather strong though, would probably be too much, which is why I suggested the vanilla cop.)

Basically, town could use a

small

, smidgen, of extra in it. The smallest of small taps to slightly strengthen them.
And then I'd give it the /pass.

[schadd_]

how would you feel about odd-night alien

[mastina]

how would you feel about odd-night alien

Might be ever ever ever so slightly strong, but if so, I'd rate it at like... 52.5-47.5% in being only a 2.5% strongness factor, so probably fine yes.

[schadd_]

lets use that then.

[mastina]

Will need the role PMs/result PMs too and then it's a /pass.

[schadd_]

o yeah. lol.

[schadd_]

going to change alien to even-night since i'm worried about tracker being strong against voyeur - mafia can't really claim voyeur here especially in light of a recently finished mini i had with the same scum team

[schadd_]

welcome to large 227! you are a

vanilla townie.

you have no abilities during night phases but may talk and vote during the day.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

welcome to large 227! you are a

town tracker.

each night, you may investigate someone and find who, if anyone, they targeted with night actions.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

welcome to large 227! you are a

town rolestopper.

each night, you may rolestop someone, preventing any actions perpetrated against them from succeeding. any actions they take will still succeed.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

welcome to large 227! you are a

town vigilante.

each night, you may kill another player.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

welcome to large 227! you are a

town ascetic even-night alien.

on even-numbered nights (2, 4, 6, ...) you may abduct someone, preventing any actions they take from succeeding and preventing any actions targeting them from succeeding. additionally, if you are targeted by a role that does not kill you, it will fail.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

welcome to large 227! you are a

town universal backup.

the first time a town role dies who is not a vanilla townie, you will inherit their role.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

welcome to large 227! you are a

mafia multitasking voyeur

. each night, you may investigate someone to learn what sort of action(s) targeted them. you may do this action on the same night you are perpetrating the nightkill. you may talk to your partners in this thread.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

please confirm by telling me what the bolded red text says, or by posting in your PT.

results:

• tracker gets "player visited player [and player]"; "player visited no one"; "you have received no result"
  
• voyeurs get "player was visited by an X action [and a Y action]"; "player was not visited last night"; "you have received no result"

voyeurs + tracker are action investigative, rolestopper + alien are blocking

[schadd_]

my understanding is that if the tracker tracks someone visiting an ascetic or someone abducted/rolestopped then they still see the visitation ?

[mastina]

my understanding is that if the tracker tracks someone visiting an ascetic or someone abducted/rolestopped then they still see the visitation ?

Honestly as a NRG member I should know this more definitively, but the rules there are...well. Not clear. I don't actually know and I don't know how to track down a source which would give a hard definitive answer on this.

It came up as an issue in the postgame of a Normal--but nobody followed through on it and brought it to public light beyond that game, it wasn't something we discussed in the NRG after that point even though it should've been. As far as I can tell, per the page on ascetics:

A role attempting to target an Ascetic should be seen doing so by Trackers and Motion Detectors, even though they would not be seen if they were directly roleblocked.

Yes, someone trying to visit an ascetic and someone trying to track someone who was abducted/rolestopped will be seen as visiting, even though their action will fail. And per that page, that's the resource I'd use as an answer and is what I am going off. (Is it the correct source? I don't know for sure, but it's the best source I can find.)

Anyway, /pass.