Micro 935 | Chain of Command | Game Over!

[Iconeum]

Can you link me to a town!game where you tunnel/feel you play like you do here?

Micro 892: TL micro maf

[Iconeum]

My takeaway was actually that you feel a lot more agenda-y as scum (focusing on pushes, scumreads, tunnels) and you feel less agendy as town (so, not that). The townreads was just a bonus even though it was true as well

Actually I think my main weakness as scum is a lack of agenda/plan
I have never had a scumgame where the pushes/mislynches were planned out that I can remember. Even if it feels agenda-y, I don't know where that comes from.

[Kanna]

I think the thing I'm actually looking for is just *deathtunnels* and what i mean by agenda-y refers to the same thing (pushing a mislynch) but ok, will look through that tomorrow.

Spoiler:

*casually ignores drew*

[Iconeum]

you want to see if i've ever deathtunnelled as town?

are you sure?

[Kanna]

Also one last thing because this always gets brushed over

I clearly have had townreads this game, and kept building on them. You still came to scum!Ico conclusion despite of this.

I didn't say scum!you never has townreads, you townblocked me and probably some other people in strawberry, right? I mean you *focus on* on scumreads/pushes which I feel like you're doing with DrP now. It's like the ame/luca tunnel.

but sure, i'm open to seeing it

[Iconeum]

in that case, your entire meta argument is literally only

'scum!ico has agenda, town!ico doesn't'

lol

[Drew-Sta]

ald is doing the scummy thing where he sheeps kanna to 1v1 ico but tries to get ico to 1v1 kanna

i think

either ald/kanna is svs taking turns or ald/kanna is svt where he's burning two slots kinda

Thank you.

Well you quoted the core of the aldus case here

Thank you.

@Drew, there's also the part where Aldus builds on the meta argument from Kanna, and that similar to a previous scumgame of mine, my reads this game have been inconsistent in a similar fashion to that scumgame. Datisi has fought against this argument

@drew, I suggest you read the second half of Aldus ISO. It's not that much. See how and why he votes/pushes me.

The meta I'm not worried about. The adoption by Aldus of Kanna's argument is of concern. 345, 351, 366 are a weird falling in line with Kanna. If an Icon lynch went ahead, then Aldus could bus Kanna for leading the argument for the lynch and absolve himself of responsibility.

410 is misrep, as it wasn't Aldo scum reading, it was Aldo following Kanna's read after you pressed them. 414 is then a cop out: 'Oh no! I wasn't actually voting Ico, I was just being a muppet!' Which is covering himself and cutting himself off from calling Ico into suspicion. Then backs onto Ico being scum in 416 again, buddies Oka and suggests I'm PR fishing (which is casting shade) on my post - which completely misreps what I said.

Ok, I'm content that Aldo has more to answer for and is giving tells.

I think the thing I'm actually looking for is just *deathtunnels* and what i mean by agenda-y refers to the same thing (pushing a mislynch) but ok, will look through that tomorrow.

Spoiler:

*casually ignores drew*

Of course you'd avoid me. You've got no way at all to refute what I've said because it's accurate

@ico - AtE by Kanna in 534?

[Iconeum]

@ico - AtE by Kanna in 534?

NAI

[GeorgeBailey]

QuantumQuasar has been prodded!

[Datisi]

ofc this all hinges on ico town lol

then let's lynch ico to make sure he's town /s

reminder still waiting on Kanna's reads

[Datisi]

if you know what I'm talking about and i think you do, do you think i'm right because oh my fuking god

what do you think you're right about?

~

I think the thing I'm actually looking for is just *deathtunnels* and what i mean by agenda-y refers to the same thing (pushing a mislynch) but ok, will look through that tomorrow.

are you trying to say town!ico doesn't push mislynches

because in that case i have some news for you

~

kinda off-topic, drew, where do you draw the line between "giving someone a townread" and "buddying"?

~

My townreads are unchanged. Also still relatively confident of scum in you/aldus, just probably not the both of you. Unsure what to make about you using that meta is 'out of her scum range'. We'll see.

do you think drpepper is a viable partner for either of them then or...?

~

i'm also not sure what to make of kanna's meta use because (1) i believe the "scum!kanna has never used meta so it is townie" is a very weak argument (2) one of the dangers of second-hand meta is that you can easily get confbiased

~

i might go reread day 1 of autumnal mafia to see if i'm forgetting some stuff (because i've been trying to forget day 1 of autumnal tbh) to see how ico compares but i might also not do that who knows, maybe i'll reread some of his town games

~

ico, why do you think your play in 892 is similar to your play here?

~

yay wallpost am i cool yet

[Iconeum]

ico, why do you think your play in 892 is similar to your play here?

i'm really really not gonna compare my own games and see if i'm playing alike

feel free tho

also i had a very specific game in mind when I wanted to show a deathtunnel to Kanna, but i reread parts of it and i'm not sure it qualifies

do you remember 1942?

[Datisi]

ico, why do you think your play in 892 is similar to your play here?

i'm really really not gonna compare my own games and see if i'm playing alike

feel free tho

also i had a very specific game in mind when I wanted to show a deathtunnel to Kanna, but i reread parts of it and i'm not sure it qualifies

do you remember 1942?

okay i just asked because you speciifcally mentioned it but ok

i remember that it was a thing that existed and that everyone was like "oh wow 1942" for a while, i didn't read that no

[Euphony]

I kinda agree that Ico's AtE was towny

the situations are a little different in that he got flashlynched there/didn't have a chance to react and here he got run up to l1 while he was online. but this is true. What did you think of my other points?

Just replying to past stuff don't mind me

Happy with DoctarPepper/Alduskkel wagons I think.

Can you elaborate on Alduskkel? 349 comes off as kind of a joke to me actually

@Eup; answer these when you can please

Addressed the first in 490.

I mean, I get that post has a jokey tone, but it's still used to justify the L-1. What were you mindmelding with Aldu on for pages 15 to 17?

╯╰-= Hectic

[Euphony]

@ico - AtE by Kanna in 534?

Why did you ask Ico this specifically?

@ico - AtE by Kanna in 534?

NAI

And Ico, are you saying this because of meta or independently looking at it?

[+]7 Hectic

[shiki]

shiki, no comments about alduskkel?

nothing beyond what has already been noted. it was weird that alduskkel scumread me entirely for a misinterpretation of my words, but i struggle to communicate things clearly so it is difficult for me to weigh this appropriately. alduskkel has felt disengaged to me as well and i too found the timing of his push on iconeum to be kinda convenient.

Why is the 364 link broken, Hectic? It doesn't lead to the 364 in this thread.

oh wait, you included a space in the post tag and that broke it. lmao i almost got excited.

while trying to utilize the meanings of above sentence consisting of prediction: is, datisi, town?, the engine will build all its socio-anthropologic descriptions, taking resources from the whole system. furthermore, the question is datisi town? will be literally torn into pieces, more technologically speaking it will be transformed into a neural network consisting of hundreds of thousands of neurons with some high-privileged ones — the ones carrying the informations: is, datisi, town?.

Haven't checked if they have finished games so I can't comment on what I have seen so far from him

newbie 1988: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=82274

large normal 226: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82371

Bruh.

Seriously?

i like to think of hectic's posts imitating me as an outlet for having to directly interface with me. it is also probably the primary benefit to him of my presence in the hydra.

these were directed to hectic but i will do my best to answer since i am here right now and he is not:

Happy with DoctarPepper/Alduskkel wagons I think.

Why are you happy with DP?

doctorpepper's pushes have felt like they a simply enacting an agenda. he pushed on quantumquasar despite acknowledging that what quantumquasar was doing wasn't necessarily scummy, which i'm pretty wary of because i think mafia would be pretty likely to do this, he pushed on us because he dislikes our playstyle? though that kinda feels like it was reasoning provided after the fact, and he said he couldn't get anything off of iconeum before iconeum had posted and then as soon as iconeum started posting he accused iconeum of tunneling him. like none of these felt real to me.

I kinda agree that Ico's AtE was towny

the situations are a little different in that he got flashlynched there/didn't have a chance to react and here he got run up to l1 while he was online. but this is true. What did you think of my other points?

i addressed the parallels with micro 922 here:

i think the parallels with micro 922 are that iconeum pushed on someone early and gave up that push rather easily, and when pushed on itself, it made a scumcase on another player.

do you think the iconeum progression i outlined in 423 would be easy to simulate as mafia?

Happy with DoctarPepper/Alduskkel wagons I think.

Can you elaborate on Alduskkel? 349 comes off as kind of a joke to me actually

i think it was said in a semi-joking manner but i do not believe it to have been a joke. the game had been pretty slow up until that point and alduskkel had largely not contributed outside of the aforementioned misinterpretation before putting iconeum to l-1.

pedit: oh, hectic here now. posted as is.

[shiki]

shiki, no comments about alduskkel?

nothing beyond what has already been noted. it was weird that alduskkel scumread me entirely for a misinterpretation of my words, but i struggle to communicate things clearly so it is difficult for me to weigh this appropriately. alduskkel has felt disengaged to me as well and i too found the timing of his push on iconeum to be kinda convenient.

Why is the 364 link broken, Hectic? It doesn't lead to the 364 in this thread.

oh wait, you included a space in the post tag and that broke it. lmao i almost got excited.

while trying to utilize the meanings of above sentence consisting of prediction: is, datisi, town?, the engine will build all its socio-anthropologic descriptions, taking resources from the whole system. furthermore, the question is datisi town? will be literally torn into pieces, more technologically speaking it will be transformed into a neural network consisting of hundreds of thousands of neurons with some high-privileged ones — the ones carrying the informations: is, datisi, town?.

Haven't checked if they have finished games so I can't comment on what I have seen so far from him

newbie 1988: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=82274

large normal 226: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82371

Bruh.

Seriously?

i like to think of hectic's posts imitating me as an outlet for having to directly interface with me. it is also probably the primary benefit to him of my presence in the hydra.

these were directed to hectic but i will do my best to answer since i am here right now and he is not:

Happy with DoctarPepper/Alduskkel wagons I think.

Why are you happy with DP?

doctorpepper's pushes have felt like they a simply enacting an agenda. he pushed on quantumquasar despite acknowledging that what quantumquasar was doing wasn't necessarily scummy, which i'm pretty wary of because i think mafia would be pretty likely to do this, he pushed on us because he dislikes our playstyle? though that kinda feels like it was reasoning provided after the fact, and he said he couldn't get anything off of iconeum before iconeum had posted and then as soon as iconeum started posting he accused iconeum of tunneling him. like none of these felt real to me.

I kinda agree that Ico's AtE was towny

the situations are a little different in that he got flashlynched there/didn't have a chance to react and here he got run up to l1 while he was online. but this is true. What did you think of my other points?

i addressed the parallels with micro 922 here:

i think the parallels with micro 922 are that iconeum pushed on someone early and gave up that push rather easily, and when pushed on itself, it made a scumcase on another player.

do you think the iconeum progression i outlined in 423 would be easy to simulate as mafia?

Happy with DoctarPepper/Alduskkel wagons I think.

Can you elaborate on Alduskkel? 349 comes off as kind of a joke to me actually

i think it was said in a semi-joking manner but i do not believe it to have been a joke. the game had been pretty slow up until that point and alduskkel had largely not contributed outside of the aforementioned misinterpretation before putting iconeum to l-1.

pedit: oh, hectic here now. posted as is.

[Euphony]

sigh. sorry for hydra slip and sorry for double post.

Spoiler:

shiki, no comments about alduskkel?

nothing beyond what has already been noted. it was weird that alduskkel scumread me entirely for a misinterpretation of my words, but i struggle to communicate things clearly so it is difficult for me to weigh this appropriately. alduskkel has felt disengaged to me as well and i too found the timing of his push on iconeum to be kinda convenient.

Why is the 364 link broken, Hectic? It doesn't lead to the 364 in this thread.

oh wait, you included a space in the post tag and that broke it. lmao i almost got excited.

while trying to utilize the meanings of above sentence consisting of prediction: is, datisi, town?, the engine will build all its socio-anthropologic descriptions, taking resources from the whole system. furthermore, the question is datisi town? will be literally torn into pieces, more technologically speaking it will be transformed into a neural network consisting of hundreds of thousands of neurons with some high-privileged ones — the ones carrying the informations: is, datisi, town?.

Haven't checked if they have finished games so I can't comment on what I have seen so far from him

newbie 1988: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=82274

large normal 226: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82371

Bruh.

Seriously?

i like to think of hectic's posts imitating me as an outlet for having to directly interface with me. it is also probably the primary benefit to him of my presence in the hydra.

these were directed to hectic but i will do my best to answer since i am here right now and he is not:

Happy with DoctarPepper/Alduskkel wagons I think.

Why are you happy with DP?

doctorpepper's pushes have felt like they a simply enacting an agenda. he pushed on quantumquasar despite acknowledging that what quantumquasar was doing wasn't necessarily scummy, which i'm pretty wary of because i think mafia would be pretty likely to do this, he pushed on us because he dislikes our playstyle? though that kinda feels like it was reasoning provided after the fact, and he said he couldn't get anything off of iconeum before iconeum had posted and then as soon as iconeum started posting he accused iconeum of tunneling him. like none of these felt real to me.

I kinda agree that Ico's AtE was towny

the situations are a little different in that he got flashlynched there/didn't have a chance to react and here he got run up to l1 while he was online. but this is true. What did you think of my other points?

i addressed the parallels with micro 922 here:

i think the parallels with micro 922 are that iconeum pushed on someone early and gave up that push rather easily, and when pushed on itself, it made a scumcase on another player.

do you think the iconeum progression i outlined in 423 would be easy to simulate as mafia?

Happy with DoctarPepper/Alduskkel wagons I think.

Can you elaborate on Alduskkel? 349 comes off as kind of a joke to me actually

i think it was said in a semi-joking manner but i do not believe it to have been a joke. the game had been pretty slow up until that point and alduskkel had largely not contributed outside of the aforementioned misinterpretation before putting iconeum to l-1.

pedit: oh, hectic here now. posted as is.

[QuantumQuasar]

UNVOTE: DoctorPepper

as I said you might be a townie thanks for your time

VOTE: Alduskkel

Kanna move your vote to Alduskkel

stick together team with OkaPoka

Iconeum voting Kanna doesn't help his case

Euphony has camo presume, vote alduskkel

[Datisi]

that is also L-1 pretty sure

icon is voting aldus right now tho? do you think kanna is town?

[OkaPoka]

okay quantum u cant be me

imma need a readslist from you at least

[OkaPoka]

also this ico meta discussion is kinda stupid

if ico has this much awareness of his own meta, he's not going to fall in these obvious markers as scum so unless you have something super secretive about his meta its not that helpful lol

[Alduskkel]

yay wallpost am i cool yet

You call that a wallpost?

Well, first it seemed like Kanna and I were about equally scummy to Icon (circa pages 13 and 14 or so). Then Icon said "if I get lynched here lynch kanna next" (page 15) which implies Kanna is scummier than me. This is also seen in the reads list later on that page where Kanna is "prob scum" but I'm just "could be scum." Icon then goes on to vote me and says 1 of me and Kanna is scum but probably not both. So why did Icon feel confident enough to say "if I get lynched here lynch kanna next"? That could potentially lead to two town lynches in a row from town-Icon's perspective. If Icon really thinks that one of Kanna and I are scum, then it should be trying to sort which one is the scum, which I don't think is happening. I also don't think it made sense to call Kanna scummier but then switch votes to me -- maybe scum Icon saw me as the easier target?

i think this entire paragraph can be cut down to:

ico voted aldus despite having a slightly larger or more expressed scumread in kanna therefore this is ico!scum

which is identical to:

You think I'm scummier than Also but you remove me from L-1 to vote him?Whut?

Aside from being an oversimplification, you're omitting the fact that your level of confidence was unjustified when from a town perspective you should have more to investigate to avoid mislynches.

ald is doing the scummy thing where he sheeps kanna to 1v1 ico but tries to get ico to 1v1 kanna

i think

either ald/kanna is svs taking turns or ald/kanna is svt where he's burning two slots kinda

could you explain?

also i missed this but

it means that i think there are two worlds that make equal sense

one where its you/kanna and you are tag teaming ico and well, ico probably wont win the tag team with outside assistance

or its you using kanna to create a false 1v1 to incriminate both

something like that, tinfoil hats are fun

I see where you're coming from, but if that were my plan then I'm doing a very bad job of it. If Kanna and I are scum together then why do we need to tag-team Icon when we could have just maintain the status quo and hope the game moves toward a DP or QQ lynch? Alternatively, if I'm scum and Icon v Kanna is TvT, then why do I poke my head in and attract attention when a 1v1 between them would probably have developed naturally?

Don't like 349 as a way to justify his L-1 - part of the reason the game was slow was because Aldu was pretty inactive. I agree with Datisi regarding the consistency thing on Ico. Spotting that Drew-Sta thing in 416 pretty towny though.

Why is 364towny, Aldu?

Happy with DoctarPepper/Alduskkel wagons I think.

----> Hectic

To the first part -- it's kind of a positive feedback cycle. The game is slow which means I have less to say because I'm having trouble reading people, and the game is slower because I'm not saying much. I wanted to try to break out of that cycle.

Why is 364 townie? It's hard to explain, but I don't see scum going, "ugh, what you did was townie but I don't like it." Especially when it's about AtE where it's easy to say you scumread someone for it. To me it read as town-Oka saying, "that was bad behavior but my town win condition means I'm forced to acknowledge that you're more likely to be town because of it."

so i spent some time trying to type something witty but i cant so

you do you shiki

And I thought we were out of RVS and Eup tries to drag us right back in...

I hope you guys have figured out by now that post 442 was a joke post by Hectic pretending to be shiki.

ico the fact is i've played a lot of games with him and he seems Just Town? he's got a Townblocc(tm) and is going through PoE and his reads make sense to me, and there's just enough "wtf is this shit ico" posts that i don't think he'd be faking so

Icon can have a townblock as scum, and has before. The second reason is fair from your perspective. For the third reason, what posts specifically made you think that?

Just replying to past stuff don't mind me

Happy with DoctarPepper/Alduskkel wagons I think.

Can you elaborate on Alduskkel? 349 comes off as kind of a joke to me actually

349 wasn't a joke.

Well, first it seemed like Kanna and I were about equally scummy to Icon (circa pages 13 and 14 or so). Then Icon said "if I get lynched here lynch kanna next" (page 15) which implies Kanna is scummier than me. This is also seen in the reads list later on that page where Kanna is "prob scum" but I'm just "could be scum." Icon then goes on to vote me and says 1 of me and Kanna is scum but probably not both. So why did Icon feel confident enough to say "if I get lynched here lynch kanna next"? That could potentially lead to two town lynches in a row from town-Icon's perspective. If Icon really thinks that one of Kanna and I are scum, then it should be trying to sort which one is the scum, which I don't think is happening. I also don't think it made sense to call Kanna scummier but then switch votes to me -- maybe scum Icon saw me as the easier target?

The fact you keep citing Ico as scum without forming a really good argument is curious. And no, the above is not a good argument. It's basically OMGUS reasoning. Which is a poor foundation to work with. If you think Icon is scum, form an argument on why utilising posts and the like.

How did you get OMGUS from what I said? What's wrong with my argument?

Why exactly is Icon scummy.

Already said why.

The meta I'm not worried about. The adoption by Aldus of Kanna's argument is of concern. 345, 351, 366 are a weird falling in line with Kanna. If an Icon lynch went ahead, then Aldus could bus Kanna for leading the argument for the lynch and absolve himself of responsibility.

410 is misrep, as it wasn't Aldo scum reading, it was Aldo following Kanna's read after you pressed them. 414 is then a cop out: 'Oh no! I wasn't actually voting Ico, I was just being a muppet!' Which is covering himself and cutting himself off from calling Ico into suspicion. Then backs onto Ico being scum in 416 again, buddies Oka and suggests I'm PR fishing (which is casting shade) on my post - which completely misreps what I said.

When you say "weird" do you mean scummy? If so, what's scummy about it? And the problem with your next statement is that it assumes Icon and Kanna are town.
I don't know what you mean about post 410.
For context for post 414, I didn't have a strong read on Icon at the time I placed the vote, though it was still a scumread. I'm not "backing onto Ico being scum" -- I'm saying my scumread has grown stronger since I placed the vote.
Saying I townread Oka isn't buddying.
I didn't cast shade on your post -- in fact, I said I thought you were town because of it.

UNVOTE: DoctorPepper

as I said you might be a townie thanks for your time

VOTE: Alduskkel

Kanna move your vote to Alduskkel

stick together team with OkaPoka

Iconeum voting Kanna doesn't help his case

Euphony has camo presume, vote alduskkel

Could you contribute to the discussion more than this? What specifically do you find scummy about me?

[Datisi]

ico the fact is i've played a lot of games with him and he seems Just Town? he's got a Townblocc(tm) and is going through PoE and his reads make sense to me, and there's just enough "wtf is this shit ico" posts that i don't think he'd be faking so

Icon can have a townblock as scum, and has before. The second reason is fair from your perspective. For the third reason, what posts specifically made you think that?

these posts gave me a knee-jerk "holy shit ico wtf are you doing are you trying to push bullshit? chain up mislynches? holy shit this is so scum" which i think there has to be a some amount of posts like that from ico tbh

what do you think about my interaction w pepper on page 7?

u using the kiddy gloves on pepper - his answers still feel evasive and agreeable towards you in what feels to be a pocket attempt or getting you off his back

u using said kiddy gloves can be evaluated depending on what pepper flips x

or, you know, we could policy lynch you

Aldus, have you given a read on Pepper yet? if not, can you pls? thank

[GeorgeBailey]

;