Micro 935 | Chain of Command | Game Over!

[GeorgeBailey]

VC 1.10

by: HMN

---

Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch

Alduskkel

(4): OkaPoka, Iconeum, Datisi, QuantumQuasar

Iconeum

(3): DoctorPepper, Kanna, Alduskkel

Kanna

(1): Drew-Sta

DoctorPepper

(1): Euphony

Not Voting

(0):

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-05-04 13:39:45)

V/LAs

: Iconeum has a standard weekend VLA

"GeorgeBailey" - GeorgeBailey

[Alduskkel]

Isn't that kinda too-scummy-to-be-scum? If Icon were scum what would you expect to see that you're not seeing in this game?

For DP, I think he's letting his dislike of Euphony's playstyle get the better of him; Euphony has plenty of content to analyze. I'd say DP reads like frustrated/misguided town.

Admittedly, Euphony and Iconeum raised some interesting points against DP on pages 20 and 22 respectively, so I should probably iso him to double check my read. I don't feel like doing that today though after writing that wallpost.

[Datisi]

Isn't that kinda too-scummy-to-be-scum? If Icon were scum what would you expect to see that you're not seeing in this game?

well, yes, that's why I said, just enough of those posts that i don't think he'd be faking. as for what would i be expecting to see from scum!ico... i don't exactly know how to answer that.

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: quantumquasar

maybe its the level 0 solve lol idk

or one of my earlier assumptions is wrong

i do agree that my theory on ald!scum doesn't actually feel right

this game is too hard and feels stalled rn

[Drew-Sta]

kinda off-topic, drew, where do you draw the line between "giving someone a townread" and "buddying"?

Just for transparencies sake, I personally don't town read. I've discovered that when I town read, I don't critique a players argument any more and confbias means I accept whatever they say as true without checking. I got hammered in a game once where the scum was virtually pointed out to me and I simply didn't see it because I had a person pocketed as town. Consequently, I now try to remain null on everyone and simply assess arguments and interactions to determine whether something makes sense or not, and also what the intent of something might be.

For example, at this moment, I have observed what Ico (and to a lesser extent Oka) are doing and believe their behaviours have prompted inconsistencies in other players. Their intent is to flush people out. I accept that has town basis. So I'm willing to go with it to see where it leads us. If Ico and Oka drive for lynches that end with townies being lynched, I'd reassess what is being done as Ico and Oka simply trying to obfuscate and create inconsistencies in players, and assume they are clever scum. But I can only do that if I remain null on them. If I townread them, I'll simply accept what they're doing as 'good' and get blinded by confbias.

In my observation, declaring someone as townread (either soft (no evidence, but gut) or hard (identifying posts that lead to that conclusion)) is relatively harmless. A declared position explains corresponding behaviour. The line is crossed into buddying when people work to push their town read in a public way, and appear to defend or disarm critique of the player, or sheep them without identifying why. That shows lack of analysis and an easy 'out' for mislynches - this is not town-positive behaviour.

Well, first it seemed like Kanna and I were about equally scummy to Icon (circa pages 13 and 14 or so). Then Icon said "if I get lynched here lynch kanna next" (page 15) which implies Kanna is scummier than me. This is also seen in the reads list later on that page where Kanna is "prob scum" but I'm just "could be scum." Icon then goes on to vote me and says 1 of me and Kanna is scum but probably not both. So why did Icon feel confident enough to say "if I get lynched here lynch kanna next"? That could potentially lead to two town lynches in a row from town-Icon's perspective. If Icon really thinks that one of Kanna and I are scum, then it should be trying to sort which one is the scum, which I don't think is happening. I also don't think it made sense to call Kanna scummier but then switch votes to me -- maybe scum Icon saw me as the easier target?

The fact you keep citing Ico as scum without forming a really good argument is curious. And no, the above is not a good argument. It's basically OMGUS reasoning. Which is a poor foundation to work with. If you think Icon is scum, form an argument on why utilising posts and the like.

How did you get OMGUS from what I said? What's wrong with my argument?

You're basically saying that because Icon is focussed on you and you don't agree with his argument, he must be scum.

Regarding your argument, you've simply regaled what has happened. It's clear Ico is trying to sort the both of you and determine his view on you. You've simply retorted with 'He's wrong, because I'm town, thus he must be scum'.

The meta I'm not worried about. The adoption by Aldus of Kanna's argument is of concern. 345, 351, 366 are a weird falling in line with Kanna. If an Icon lynch went ahead, then Aldus could bus Kanna for leading the argument for the lynch and absolve himself of responsibility.

410 is misrep, as it wasn't Aldo scum reading, it was Aldo following Kanna's read after you pressed them. 414 is then a cop out: 'Oh no! I wasn't actually voting Ico, I was just being a muppet!' Which is covering himself and cutting himself off from calling Ico into suspicion. Then backs onto Ico being scum in 416 again, buddies Oka and suggests I'm PR fishing (which is casting shade) on my post - which completely misreps what I said.

1 When you say "weird" do you mean scummy? If so, what's scummy about it?

2 And the problem with your next statement is that it assumes Icon and Kanna are town.

3 I don't know what you mean about post 410.
For context for post 414, I didn't have a strong read on Icon at the time I placed the vote, though it was still a scumread. I'm not "backing onto Ico being scum" -- I'm saying my scumread has grown stronger since I placed the vote.
4 Saying I townread Oka isn't buddying.
5 I didn't cast shade on your post -- in fact, I said I thought you were town because of it.

1 When I say weird, I mean it doesn't make sense. As in, it is inconsistent. And thus, does not appear to be town favourable.

2 I've never said Kanna is town at all. In fact my vote is on him. That's an odd thing to say, and somewhat slippy.

3 Can't remember what I meant by this. I'll pause on it and return when I remember.

4 Oka is doing the exact same thing as Ico yet you townread him. Secondly, you've given no reason to town read him. I consider that a form of buddying.

5 I disagree re the shade bit.

[Drew-Sta]

i do agree that my theory on ald!scum doesn't actually feel right

Why?

this game is too hard and feels stalled rn

That's a cop out

[DoctorPepper]

Isn't that kinda too-scummy-to-be-scum? If Icon were scum what would you expect to see that you're not seeing in this game?

For DP, I think he's letting his dislike of Euphony's playstyle get the better of him; Euphony has plenty of content to analyze. I'd say DP reads like frustrated/misguided town.

Admittedly, Euphony and Iconeum raised some interesting points against DP on pages 20 and 22 respectively, so I should probably iso him to double check my read. I don't feel like doing that today though after writing that wallpost.

Are you WK-ing me too?

[DoctorPepper]

you don't think ico's AtE is genuine? @drpepper

No.

I don't think AtE is Towny either

I literally think ur scum here. You have expressed several scumreads this game so far, and you have not bothered to sort a single one of them. You just go 'this is scum, and then vote there'. No interaction to further sort. No intention to double-check for errors.

You just vote and tunnel. It's scum behaviour.

Yeah wouldn't it be easier for me as scum to just sheep the biggest wagon instead of going for unpopular opinions here?

You maybe miscontruing scum for someone who just doesn't play by pushing walls or post by post analysis because I got tired of doing that when I was active a few years ago

Plus if I was scum shouldn't I have hammered Aldus right now to save my ass from being lynched today?

[DoctorPepper]

Unless I'm being completely blind here, Euph is 60-40 fluff to post and most of the post is based on me. Isn't it a thing where the fluff obfuscates the content? Anyway, you have been jokey but I feel like your pushes are genuine. And you're not content on just scum reading anyone (i.e. me) I think you're genuinely here to read me. Euph doesn't have the same feel for me. That last one they were asking me why I took their joke seriously even after we talked about me not liking the joke and it being the catalyst of our discussion now. Fluff is scummy to me because I'm fluffy as scummy. I mean I get having fun as a hydra and fluff posting, hell I do that too with my old hydras, but the ratio seems off

so fluff is only scummy when it's convenient for you to push someone on, and can be null or townie depending on the situation like with datisi?

Gut feel. I feel like it's intentions based for me

I also feel like the push on me is just as lazy as my playstyle is

[Drew-Sta]

Ok, Ald has been at L-1 for a little bit now. Where are we on hammering?

[OkaPoka]

i agree that its pretty bad play and too incriminating for ald to push ico like that

and for him to realize that too i think makes it less likely?

idk maybe if i really want to tinfoil, he did a bad push on purpose /shrug

[OkaPoka]

also i unvoted ald so he is at l2

[Drew-Sta]

So is he scum or not, Oka. Shit or get off the pot, son.

[OkaPoka]

idk

im not voting him if that helps

can a chicken be uncertain or do i have to collapse

[OkaPoka]

ehh

i think he can be town for now ig

probably better lynches out there

[OkaPoka]

although its probably not QQ thats a level 0 read, i guess im at a placeholder state right now

[OkaPoka]

still interested in QQ's actual take on the game tho btw

[OkaPoka]

maybe i should sheep you on kannaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh

[OkaPoka]

i need more alduskkel in my life tbh

[Alduskkel]

You're basically saying that because Icon is focussed on you and you don't agree with his argument, he must be scum.

Regarding your argument, you've simply regaled what has happened. It's clear Ico is trying to sort the both of you and determine his view on you. You've simply retorted with 'He's wrong, because I'm town, thus he must be scum'.

That's not what I said. I'm saying it doesn't make sense for town-Icon to have been confident about Kanna-scum then switch vote to me while also maintaining that Kanna and I are unlikely to both be scum.

The meta I'm not worried about. The adoption by Aldus of Kanna's argument is of concern. 345, 351, 366 are a weird falling in line with Kanna. If an Icon lynch went ahead, then Aldus could bus Kanna for leading the argument for the lynch and absolve himself of responsibility.

410 is misrep, as it wasn't Aldo scum reading, it was Aldo following Kanna's read after you pressed them. 414 is then a cop out: 'Oh no! I wasn't actually voting Ico, I was just being a muppet!' Which is covering himself and cutting himself off from calling Ico into suspicion. Then backs onto Ico being scum in 416 again, buddies Oka and suggests I'm PR fishing (which is casting shade) on my post - which completely misreps what I said.

1 When you say "weird" do you mean scummy? If so, what's scummy about it?

2 And the problem with your next statement is that it assumes Icon and Kanna are town.

3 I don't know what you mean about post 410.
For context for post 414, I didn't have a strong read on Icon at the time I placed the vote, though it was still a scumread. I'm not "backing onto Ico being scum" -- I'm saying my scumread has grown stronger since I placed the vote.
4 Saying I townread Oka isn't buddying.
5 I didn't cast shade on your post -- in fact, I said I thought you were town because of it.

1 When I say weird, I mean it doesn't make sense. As in, it is inconsistent. And thus, does not appear to be town favourable.

2 I've never said Kanna is town at all. In fact my vote is on him. That's an odd thing to say, and somewhat slippy.

3 Can't remember what I meant by this. I'll pause on it and return when I remember.

4 Oka is doing the exact same thing as Ico yet you townread him. Secondly, you've given no reason to town read him. I consider that a form of buddying.

5 I disagree re the shade bit.

1 Inconsistent with what?
2 No, but your hypothetical situation where I pass responsibility for a town-Icon lynch onto Kanna only makes sense if Kanna is also town. That's why I said the statement assumes Kanna is town. If I'm scum with Kanna, passing responsibility for a town-Icon lynch onto her does nothing except move suspicion from one scum to another.
4 I disagree that Oka is doing the same thing as Ico. I also explained my Oka townread here:

Why is 364 townie? It's hard to explain, but I don't see scum going, "ugh, what you did was townie but I don't like it." Especially when it's about AtE where it's easy to say you scumread someone for it. To me it read as town-Oka saying, "that was bad behavior but my town win condition means I'm forced to acknowledge that you're more likely to be town because of it."

5 It's not shade if I give you towncred for it.

Are you WK-ing me too?

I'd be defending you and haranguing people for voting you if I were WKing you, so no.

pedit: hello i heard u needed an urgent delivery of premium alduskkel?

[OkaPoka]

i have a weird question for you ald, who are your ms.net role models when you roll scum

[Alduskkel]

i don't have role models, i just do my own thing

[OkaPoka]

unlucky i can't ask what i actually want to know without being obvious so i guess that'll have to wait until post game

[OkaPoka]

Isn't that kinda too-scummy-to-be-scum? If Icon were scum what would you expect to see that you're not seeing in this game?

For DP, I think he's letting his dislike of Euphony's playstyle get the better of him; Euphony has plenty of content to analyze. I'd say DP reads like frustrated/misguided town.

Admittedly, Euphony and Iconeum raised some interesting points against DP on pages 20 and 22 respectively, so I should probably iso him to double check my read. I don't feel like doing that today though after writing that wallpost.

did this ever happen btw

[Kanna]

Micro 892: TL micro maf

i read some of Micro 892: TL micro and I guess you mean the Bella tunnel? .....because i actually kind of see it