Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over


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Post Post #1800 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 9:06 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1772, Morning Tweet wrote:I feel pretty strongly that scum is able to monitor us as we play our games. There wasn't anything that explicitly told me that they were listening in, though, it's just a theory a lot of people have expressed and i share it

I don't understand Battle Mage's reasoning to withhold what went on in the game.

Also me not understanding BM well led to a mislynch yesterday. I assumed he had something really solid on Xtoxm. I had one chance to unvote, but GL's 1718 theory was pretty reasonable. I could see a GF acting scummy on purpose to draw a clear.

@BM
Why do you think disclosing details of your game would hinder town, yet you also think that Jigsaw can likely listen in to the games? That would imply scum knows what goes on in them, so we might as well tell everybody.
I didn't necessarily think Jigsaw could - I thought it was possible, but not a dead cert. Essentially the reason I withheld info, and would respect others for doing so, is that decisions you make in the 'games' can give an indication of your role (or it's relative power). For example, if my trap requires me to die, or allow the cop to die, it could be implied my role is more powerful than a cop. But you're right, if Jigsaw is watching the games, then he would know anyway.
In post 1773, Morning Tweet wrote:Let's take our time today, yes? At least long enough for like, Drixx to post once would be nice. I also eagerly await Vecna's info.
Yes, you're right. Yesterday turned out not so good, so a return to Day 1's approach would be welcome. Most of my reads have been right, but I got it slightly wrong with Xtoxm, and we should have given him a chance to deny what ABR said happened on N1. So I'll take some blame, but was potentially based on misinformation from my hood buddy.
In post 1774, pisskop wrote:A50 flipped as 'gritty', and it said any residual effects wont apply to him.

Do you have a modifier or post restriction or something?
I'm not aware of any residual effects from my trap on N1.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1801 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 9:07 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1775, Morning Tweet wrote:
pisskop wrote:A50 flipped as 'gritty', and it said any residual effects wont apply to him.

Do you have a modifier or post restriction or something?
No, as far as I know. I want to wait and see if BM has some insider info on why I shouldn't disclose details about the game, though.

I am slightly worried my head might blow off or something if I do. but that would have been a secret kept from me
I think you're ok to share, subject to the caveat in my previous post. Really depends on what the trap entailed!
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1802 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 9:13 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1779, GuiltyLion wrote:One thing I don't understand is how it's determined who gets put into the games. Mine started within 15-20 minutes of the day 2 end which feels too fast for scum to be making decisions based on the day play. I do agree scum can likely monitor though - I was put into a PT to play the game and told to submit my choice in the PT.

I'd like to wait and hear about MT's game and what happened before I describe how mine went down.
Mine also started in similar timeframe. So Jigsaw is choosing in advance of Day end I guess.
In post 1780, GuiltyLion wrote:I still kinda want to just lynch iDanyBoy or Gamma in a vacuum, they're my strongest independent scumreads.

Yesterday I felt that Blake was scum but given that ABR/BM are both still alive, I'm a little less eager to jump to a quick conclusion there. I'm also not sure it's something that has to be resolved today.
I feel a similar way, have something to share on this shortly.
In post 1781, Morning Tweet wrote:
In post 1779, GuiltyLion wrote:One thing I don't understand is how it's determined who gets put into the games. Mine started within 15-20 minutes of the day 2 end which feels too fast for scum to be making decisions based on the day play. I do agree scum can likely monitor though - I was put into a PT to play the game and told to submit my choice in the PT.
I can confirm this. I got grabbed very very quickly after the day ended. I was also in a PT that someone easily could have been hiding in.
Jigsaw watching the games just makes sense from flavour perspective really. I also don't think it can be as simple as once you've been in a game you are conf-town. Otherwise town would have clears all over the place. So the games you both had where nobody died could, in theory, be fakes.
In post 1783, GuiltyLion wrote:I have to think the people placed in games is random or based on something arbitrary like wagon position or something, or at the very least decided by scum prior to the EOD. Because it's also odd Vecna is widely townread, claimed info, and wasn't put in a game, I would think if he's town he'd be a decently high priority kill for scum
I think it's decided by Jigsaw himself prior to the end of the day. Agree on Vecna.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1803 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 9:14 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1782, Morning Tweet wrote:
Spoiler: reads
TOWN BLOCK //
Battle Mage

HEAVY TOWN LEAN //
ABR, GeorgeBailey, GuiltyLion, BBMolla

MEDIUM TOWN LEAN //
Vecna

WEAK TOWN LEAN //
Gamma

NULL-TOWN //
VaultDweller,
A50
, pisskop

UNSURE //
Farside


SOMEWHAT BAD LOOKS //
Blake, Davesaz, Drixx

TIME-OUT //
iDanyboy

Where I ended up at after doing some ISOs n rereads. As always I feel very unconfident about the lower end, feel decent about the townreads.
How would you feel if I told you I think ABR is scum? :lol:
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1804 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 9:23 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1788, Morning Tweet wrote:
In post 1787, pisskop wrote:So, why would they put elsa in 2 games? Seems like they wasted a kill
That's a good point. In my mind, I had figured Battle Mage had some say in who died in his game. Just a theory though, need to hear from him
Yes, that's correct. In my game, I was told Elsa Jay's role, and said I could kill him or I would die. I didn't know who the role belonged to. So I don't think scum specifically chose him to be the victim, it was a pre-determined mechanics thing.
In post 1791, Morning Tweet wrote:Farside shot A50 using her role though
If so, that's not a good use of the Vig-shot...
In post 1799, Morning Tweet wrote:
In post 1798, GuiltyLion wrote:
In post 1797, Morning Tweet wrote:Makes me think scum is incapable of killing us in any way other than playing games. If scum had access to a night kill, then Cakes wouldn't have told us that farside was the one who shot A50. That's my thinking anyway
so, I share a lot of your thought process MT, and I agree with all your reasoning here, and I still think you're a solid townread.

That said - if scum have to put us in games to kill us, including solo games, doesn't that start to clear a lot of players if that's the only avenue scum have to kill? I would think at some point scum would need to put themselves in games, which is why I'm curious/waiting to hear how you survived your game with no apparent negative effects. I will def explain mine as well today, but hilariously sucks for scum lol if they thought they would kill both of us and we both avoided it and cleared ourselves as town in the process
I had a similar thought last night! Here's my notes I had on a post by blake:
Spoiler:
1687 - Blake gives out her master reads list. Her reasoning for townblocking farside is that she believes scum would put two players they want to get rid of with the confirmed cop. Blake reads that I also find interesting: Davesaz!town, Drixx!town, and Gamma!scum.

This strikes me as shaky reasoning for townreading farside. Scum could just as well put one of their own in the trap. Hell I’d expect it. Anyone from an outsiders perspective would know that Pine was 100% going to sacrifice himself in that trap. So why not stick a scum in the trap too?
I think it's likely they have to kill us with the games. However, from that deduction, surely scum can put themselves in the games too..? There's a possible issue ive found with scum putting themselves in the games, but i'll go that later once i talk about my game.
I've already said this but to reiterate, I don't think having been in a trap confirms you as town, although if scum require the traps to kill, I don't think they are putting scum in there too often, just enough for some false positives.

Ok caught up, big post on the way.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1805 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 9:41 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

Battle Mage's Setup Theory


4 person survivor hood - includes 2 scum (Momo and ABR)
3 person FBI hood - NO SCUM
8 person (Cop?) hood - Likely only 1 scum, outside chance of 2.
No hood - Likely 2 scum, outside chance of 1.

I'll case ABR properly later, but wanted to set out my theory on the setup first. Reason for this is partly flavour (I spent the night phase reading up on all the Saw flavour!) and partly what I think the Mod would do to balance the game whilst making it consistent with the flavour.

Assumption:

Flavour consistency is very important to the Mod. So far, everyone in hoods, has conformed to the flavour of that hood. This INCLUDES SCUM. Momo had a fakeclaim of a town survivor, but his actual scum character was a survivor in the movies.

One of the premier baddies in Saw is a character called Amanda Young. She was also, notably, a Jigsaw Survivor. My hypothesis is that ABR is Amanda Young, and therefore my hood contained 2 scum originally.

There was only 1 cop who was a baddy in the franchise, Det Mark Hoffman. So he is presumably in the 8-person hood.

John Kramer (Jigsaw) would be outside of any hood. And the remaining scum, I theorise, is most likely to be Lawrence Gordon, who was a doctor, and wouldn't fit in any of the hoods either.

From a gameplay perspective, unbalanced number of scum in the hoods makes sense (to give false positives in the small hood, and everyone chasing shadows in the big hood with only 1 scum). Hoods with the right proportions of scum would be too town heavy, especially with the amount of PRs. Plus it's Saw, so the point is the game is meant to screw with you.

In the game that means:

ABR is scum.
There is 2 scum within: Pisskop, BBmola, Vecna and GuiltyLion
Blake and MorningTweet are town.
There is only 1 scum in big hood, which I still think is Danyboy (especially if ABR is scum, as he loves Danyboy). But we shouldn't be hitting here yet as we have lower mathematical odds of success.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1806 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 9:43 pm

Post by BBmolla »

I'm just demoralized I'm not scum tyvm
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Post Post #1807 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 9:44 pm

Post by BBmolla »

why can't we just go Danyboy?
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Post Post #1808 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 10:01 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

I've already explained that above, BBmolla.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1809 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 10:02 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

ABR being scum would explain why BM is still alive. iDanyboy being scum would explain why GuiltyLion, farside and I were tested (if im remembering d2 right)

Also thank you BM! You make a fair point about how discussing the game could out your role power. Although..i think scum probably has access to enough information to figure that stuff out anyway
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Post Post #1810 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 10:11 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1809, Morning Tweet wrote:ABR being scum would explain why BM is still alive. iDanyboy being scum would explain why GuiltyLion, farside and I were tested (if im remembering d2 right)

Also thank you BM! You make a fair point about how discussing the game could out your role power. Although..i think scum probably has access to enough information to figure that stuff out anyway
I'm still alive because I've got limited-use trap immunity (which I claimed yesterday anyway) :lol:

Idanyboy being scum would fit with ABR wanting to keep him alive, so he'd be my top suspect from the big hood.

But today we need to lynch ABR, and focus on working out which 2 of the 4 not in PT's are scum. I haven't got a strong view on that question yet.

My case on ABR is coming shortly - warning, it's long. :wink:
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1811 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 10:21 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

Spoiler: Last night
I had my head locked up in a glass box, slowly filling up with water. In a room all by myself with no one to help me. However, I was in a PT, so someone could have been watching me.

I had a choice-- live or die.

If i chose to escape, scum gets to rig two additional traps the next night. One to compensate for this night, plus a bonus trap.

Or I could choose to let myself go

As you can see, i mustered up enough strength to break myself free. Really hope that wasnt a bad move
It does leaves me with some questions.

Was this trap handpicked for me, with scum fully understanding how the choice worked? If so, was their desired outcome for me to die? I figure if they were going to use this type of trap, they'd place it on someone they mildly want to get rid of, but not enough to use something real strong on them.

Furthermore, what's stopping scum from just placing one of their own in this trap? Free extra traps, plus it makes that individual look better because they've been tested.

random thought I just had: What if one of the scums roles allows them to go in the traps? So the whole team cant do it, just one person for some towncred. That could be Amanda's ability for example.
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Post Post #1812 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 10:22 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

In post 1810, Battle Mage wrote:
But today we need to lynch ABR, and focus on working out which 2 of the 4 not in PT's are scum. I haven't got a strong view on that question yet.

My case on ABR is coming shortly - warning, it's long. :wink:
Now this is quite the turn of events
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Post Post #1813 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 10:26 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

Why ABR is scum


1. PT Behaviour on Day 1 and post-lynch:


I noted at outset of Day 2 his behaviour in PT is exactly what I would expect from him as scum (and only Momo's behaviour made me think he was clean).
He was initially not keen to throw suspicion on others in the hood, and just wanted everyone to follow him. He just 'assumed' Momo and I were town, and only suggested Pine was scum when Pine wouldn't toe the line. ABR was non-committal on my Momo scum-read, and didn't engage with it until after the flip. After the flip, he was excited and jubilant, and claimed credit for the lynch.

2. Flavour:


As noted in my setup theory, I think Amanda Young is highly likely in the game, as a survivor. ABR has instead claimed, in the PT, that he is Corbett Denlon - the child of 2 confirmed townies. She was not a prominent feature of the film franchise, so I'm not sure she would be a character in the game, especially given both her parents were. She was also never subject to Jigsaw's traps, so I wouldn't really call her a 'survivor' at all, and she'd be way way down on the list of likely survivor characters compared to Amanda Young. Gut says it MUST be a fakeclaim.

3. PT Behaviour Night 1 onwards:


During Night 1, ABR suddenly became frantically active in the PT, having neglected it for a while before that (me and Pine were both stuck in traps at this point of course). He claimed his role and flavour, and also claimed that Xtoxm was a "mailman" (incidentally, not what he flipped), and then gave the story I repeated yesterday in order to make me suspect Xtoxm, which on reflection may not have been true. He was not keen on my suggestion of lynching those not in a PT, which suggests if ABR flips scum, there is some more credence to it. I made it clear that I didn't trust him (by not reciprocating his claim, or sharing info about what happened to me in my trap), and since then he has become very angry and aggressive in the PT.

4. Momo wagon:


ABR was not at all eager to get on the Momo wagon, despite my endless cajoling, and the fact he was pretty happy wagonning everybody else.

5. His approach to the hood:


ABR was very keen to reveal the identities of people in the hood, has put lots of effort into protecting everyone in that hood during the day, and has taken a firm line that 1 scum-flip confirms the others as town. Which is exactly what he would do as scum, knowing that 50% of the hood was scum.

6. No Traps:


If ABR was town, I think he would have been high on the list for scum to trap. He has claimed that he doesn't have any immunity to this. This is not conclusive, but very suspicious given scum have focussed on other veterans like me and Farside.

I'm stopping at 6 for now, there is more, but I think that's plenty, and everything else in the main thread so you can form your own view.

Vote: ABR
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1814 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 10:28 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1812, Morning Tweet wrote:
In post 1810, Battle Mage wrote:
But today we need to lynch ABR, and focus on working out which 2 of the 4 not in PT's are scum. I haven't got a strong view on that question yet.

My case on ABR is coming shortly - warning, it's long. :wink:
Now this is quite the turn of events
I know! I started to have my doubts during the Blake-ABR weirdness, and with the Xtoxm flip and knowing I'd still be here tomorrow I decided to re-think everything!
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1815 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 10:30 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

initial impression: the combination of your setup spec theorizing that there are 2 scum in the Survivor hood, plus ABR strongly wanting us to play as if there is 1 scum in each hood does look pretty bad on him.

will analyze your case better tomorrow
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Post Post #1816 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 10:33 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

relying on info from your neighbourhood is responsible for both our pretty good day one performance (partly), as well as the botched d2. a mixed bag of results it is isnt it
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Post Post #1817 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 10:33 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1811, Morning Tweet wrote:
Spoiler: Last night
I had my head locked up in a glass box, slowly filling up with water. In a room all by myself with no one to help me. However, I was in a PT, so someone could have been watching me.

I had a choice-- live or die.

If i chose to escape, scum gets to rig two additional traps the next night. One to compensate for this night, plus a bonus trap.

Or I could choose to let myself go

As you can see, i mustered up enough strength to break myself free. Really hope that wasnt a bad move
It does leaves me with some questions.

Was this trap handpicked for me, with scum fully understanding how the choice worked? If so, was their desired outcome for me to die? I figure if they were going to use this type of trap, they'd place it on someone they mildly want to get rid of, but not enough to use something real strong on them.

Furthermore, what's stopping scum from just placing one of their own in this trap? Free extra traps, plus it makes that individual look better because they've been tested.

random thought I just had: What if one of the scums roles allows them to go in the traps? So the whole team cant do it, just one person for some towncred. That could be Amanda's ability for example.
Ah that's interesting. I don't blame you I guess, but it's bad news for tonight! :giggle:

I'm assuming scum don't get to choose the exact traps, although it's possible. Given the choices are made during the day, I figure they just choose the names and the Mod picks the traps (presume at random). Allowing scum to choose the traps would be a bit complicated and maybe too powerful?
And I agree that scum could place one of their own in the traps, I think it's likely they will do so. But not every trap gives scum extra traps, otherwise we'd be in a whole world of trouble. :lol:
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1818 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 10:37 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1816, Morning Tweet wrote:relying on info from your neighbourhood is responsible for both our pretty good day one performance (partly), as well as the botched d2. a mixed bag of results it is isnt it
Well in my defence, Day 1 was based on my own independent scum-read of Momo. Day 2 was based on my interpretation of what ABR told me, which was (as revealed)
at least
partially untrue.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1819 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 10:42 pm

Post by Blake Belladonna »

Interesting.

I will need to think upon the trap choices. I agree that it's very likely that scum are behind the traps considering the flavor and lack of known information about what else scum is able to do within the game, so the picks for who goes into the traps is important, as well as what the traps actually do.

I do think it's far more likely that scum would place their own in a trap in circumstances where they need a boost of towncred, or otherwise would gain an advantage from doing such over putting town within the trap.

Considering that everybody other than Battle Mage from the night one traps is dead by this point, I think it's unlikely that the scumteam were in trouble with the death of momo. Battle Mage doesn't specifically need to look better than he does after day one, and there is some risk that the traps will give town a different reaction than scum would expect, so I still think that Battle Mage is unlikely to be scum from a risk reward standpoint.

My preliminary guess is that GuiltyLion is scum within the second set, but I haven't properly thought through what the second set of traps means yet as of this point. I will say, however, that I think it's less likely to be the case if Albert B. Rampage flips town, since that was the only major shift in reads that happened across day two. If the scumteam felt particularly threatened enough to go for the WIFOM play, that is where I would look to first.

I have other thoughts upon Albert B. Rampage. I will go into them later.
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Post Post #1820 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 10:54 pm

Post by Blake Belladonna »

In post 1799, Morning Tweet wrote:
In post 1798, GuiltyLion wrote:
In post 1797, Morning Tweet wrote:Makes me think scum is incapable of killing us in any way other than playing games. If scum had access to a night kill, then Cakes wouldn't have told us that farside was the one who shot A50. That's my thinking anyway
so, I share a lot of your thought process MT, and I agree with all your reasoning here, and I still think you're a solid townread.

That said - if scum have to put us in games to kill us, including solo games, doesn't that start to clear a lot of players if that's the only avenue scum have to kill? I would think at some point scum would need to put themselves in games, which is why I'm curious/waiting to hear how you survived your game with no apparent negative effects. I will def explain mine as well today, but hilariously sucks for scum lol if they thought they would kill both of us and we both avoided it and cleared ourselves as town in the process
I had a similar thought last night! Here's my notes I had on a post by blake:
Spoiler:
1687 - Blake gives out her master reads list. Her reasoning for townblocking farside is that she believes scum would put two players they want to get rid of with the confirmed cop. Blake reads that I also find interesting: Davesaz!town, Drixx!town, and Gamma!scum.

This strikes me as shaky reasoning for townreading farside. Scum could just as well put one of their own in the trap. Hell I’d expect it. Anyone from an outsiders perspective would know that Pine was 100% going to sacrifice himself in that trap. So why not stick a scum in the trap too?
I think it's likely they have to kill us with the games. However, from that deduction, surely scum can put themselves in the games too..? There's a possible issue ive found with scum putting themselves in the games, but i'll go that later once i talk about my game.
I found farside22 to be likely town because scum likely wanted to maximize the potential value of the game. The most likely explanation is that Pine was placed in the trap for the player within two hoods, while farside22 was placed because somebody caught a crumb of hers. In the scenario where scum are uncertain of how town will handle the traps, this is a much safer bet than the wifom play.
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Post Post #1821 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 10:58 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

Blake - would be helpful to get your comments on my theory, and ABR more generally - in light of both my case, and your concerns about him yesterday.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1822 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 10:58 pm

Post by Blake Belladonna »

Later.

I am on my way to work as we speak.
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Post Post #1823 (ISO) » Sat May 02, 2020 11:04 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1822, Blake Belladonna wrote:Later.

I am on my way to work as we speak.
Take the day off, this is life or death!! :lol:
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1824 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:12 am

Post by Vecna »

In post 1780, GuiltyLion wrote:I still kinda want to just lynch iDanyBoy or Gamma in a vacuum, they're my strongest independent scumreads.

Yesterday I felt that Blake was scum but given that ABR/BM are both still alive, I'm a little less eager to jump to a quick conclusion there. I'm also not sure it's something that has to be resolved today.
Guilty lion keeps posting exactly the thoughts that are in my head.

How did both ABR and BM survive both N1 and N2 after that D1?

It might be a scum ploy to make them look suspicious, but in this game town has plenty of stuff to be suspicious about already.

It stands out.

Also, blake and Drixx seem to have zero interest in thsi game at all. Drixx makes a post and its some talk about his internal mech thinking. Who does that after all the shit that has gone down as town, knowing you havent participated in the main threat at all (pretty much).

Also, that hammer on Xtox went through reallly really quickly.....
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