Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over


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Post Post #1825 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:15 am

Post by Vecna »

In post 1783, GuiltyLion wrote:I have to think the people placed in games is random or based on something arbitrary like wagon position or something, or at the very least decided by scum prior to the EOD. Because it's also odd Vecna is widely townread, claimed info, and wasn't put in a game, I would think if he's town he'd be a decently high priority kill for scum
Yes, im also surprised. When I came back and saw the thread locked I was puzzled that it had gone down so fast.

Not worried though, since my info is also released on my death. So it wouldve been quite ok if I was nightkilled only for my info to still be released.
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Post Post #1826 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:15 am

Post by Vecna »

In post 1785, Morning Tweet wrote:
GuiltyLion wrote:I have to think the people placed in games is random or based on something arbitrary like wagon position or something, or at the very least decided by scum prior to the EOD. Because it's also odd Vecna is widely townread, claimed info, and wasn't put in a game, I would think if he's town he'd be a decently high priority kill for scum
I thought we had lost that information forever too

I figured scum has a list where they put individuals they want in traps at the top, and they can update the list throughout the day. Would have to check the wagons again to see if that has anything to do with it though
So if you guys were worried about that, why didnt you stop that bloody speedwagon lol
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Post Post #1827 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:17 am

Post by Vecna »

In post 1791, Morning Tweet wrote:Farside shot A50 using her role though
Flavour seems to indicate she made a choice to influence the outcome of A50's game and was killed as punishment?

The flavour heavily seems to imply "play your own game, accept the damage you get, dont mess with other games outcomes, survive"

Speculation. Might be wrong.
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Post Post #1828 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:17 am

Post by Vecna »

In post 1794, SirCakez wrote:
To clarify: Almost50's gun death was mechanically disconnected from the Game that killed farside22. I just combined them in flavor for dramatic effect.
I apologize for the confusion.
oh ok
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Post Post #1829 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:24 am

Post by Vecna »

In post 1805, Battle Mage wrote:
Battle Mage's Setup Theory


4 person survivor hood - includes 2 scum (Momo and ABR)
3 person FBI hood - NO SCUM
8 person (Cop?) hood - Likely only 1 scum, outside chance of 2.
No hood - Likely 2 scum, outside chance of 1.

I'll case ABR properly later, but wanted to set out my theory on the setup first. Reason for this is partly flavour (I spent the night phase reading up on all the Saw flavour!) and partly what I think the Mod would do to balance the game whilst making it consistent with the flavour.

Assumption:

Flavour consistency is very important to the Mod. So far, everyone in hoods, has conformed to the flavour of that hood. This INCLUDES SCUM. Momo had a fakeclaim of a town survivor, but his actual scum character was a survivor in the movies.

One of the premier baddies in Saw is a character called Amanda Young. She was also, notably, a Jigsaw Survivor. My hypothesis is that ABR is Amanda Young, and therefore my hood contained 2 scum originally.

There was only 1 cop who was a baddy in the franchise, Det Mark Hoffman. So he is presumably in the 8-person hood.

John Kramer (Jigsaw) would be outside of any hood. And the remaining scum, I theorise, is most likely to be Lawrence Gordon, who was a doctor, and wouldn't fit in any of the hoods either.

From a gameplay perspective, unbalanced number of scum in the hoods makes sense (to give false positives in the small hood, and everyone chasing shadows in the big hood with only 1 scum). Hoods with the right proportions of scum would be too town heavy, especially with the amount of PRs. Plus it's Saw, so the point is the game is meant to screw with you.

In the game that means:

ABR is scum.
There is 2 scum within: Pisskop, BBmola, Vecna and GuiltyLion
Blake and MorningTweet are town.
There is only 1 scum in big hood, which I still think is Danyboy (especially if ABR is scum, as he loves Danyboy). But we shouldn't be hitting here yet as we have lower mathematical odds of success.
Wasnt there a second corrupt cop in that last saw movie? Not sure if it was JIGSAW or SAW6, but Iirc there was another turncoat in a police department.

Also, I have strong suspicions on blake, and a very strong townread on GuiltyLion, and I doubt itd be as simple as Pisskop + BBmolla (even though I think BBmolla is definately scum)
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Post Post #1830 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:29 am

Post by Vecna »

In post 1818, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1816, Morning Tweet wrote:relying on info from your neighbourhood is responsible for both our pretty good day one performance (partly), as well as the botched d2. a mixed bag of results it is isnt it
Well in my defence, Day 1 was based on my own independent scum-read of Momo. Day 2 was based on my interpretation of what ABR told me, which was (as revealed)
at least
partially untrue.
Would scum ABR really focus on hunting scum in his own neighbourhood if 50% there is scum though?
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Post Post #1831 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:34 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

In post 1824, Vecna wrote:
In post 1780, GuiltyLion wrote:I still kinda want to just lynch iDanyBoy or Gamma in a vacuum, they're my strongest independent scumreads.

Yesterday I felt that Blake was scum but given that ABR/BM are both still alive, I'm a little less eager to jump to a quick conclusion there. I'm also not sure it's something that has to be resolved today.
Guilty lion keeps posting exactly the thoughts that are in my head.

How did both ABR and BM survive both N1 and N2 after that D1?

It might be a scum ploy to make them look suspicious, but in this game town has plenty of stuff to be suspicious about already.

It stands out.

Also, blake and Drixx seem to have zero interest in thsi game at all. Drixx makes a post and its some talk about his internal mech thinking. Who does that after all the shit that has gone down as town, knowing you havent participated in the main threat at all (pretty much).

Also, that hammer on Xtox went through reallly really quickly.....
BM was being extremely arrogant and annoying yesterday about xtoxm. I suspect BM still is going to be playing incredibly stupidly for the rest of the game and thats why hes alive. BM also claimed bulletproof so make of that what you will.

I'm a VT, no powers.

I feel incredibly betrayed by xtoxm lynch yesterday and BM had no remorse whatsoever. He's just incredibly dumb.

VOTE: Blake
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Post Post #1832 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:37 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

In post 1813, Battle Mage wrote:
Why ABR is scum


1. PT Behaviour on Day 1 and post-lynch:


I noted at outset of Day 2 his behaviour in PT is exactly what I would expect from him as scum (and only Momo's behaviour made me think he was clean).
He was initially not keen to throw suspicion on others in the hood, and just wanted everyone to follow him. He just 'assumed' Momo and I were town, and only suggested Pine was scum when Pine wouldn't toe the line. ABR was non-committal on my Momo scum-read, and didn't engage with it until after the flip. After the flip, he was excited and jubilant, and claimed credit for the lynch.

2. Flavour:


As noted in my setup theory, I think Amanda Young is highly likely in the game, as a survivor. ABR has instead claimed, in the PT, that he is Corbett Denlon - the child of 2 confirmed townies. She was not a prominent feature of the film franchise, so I'm not sure she would be a character in the game, especially given both her parents were. She was also never subject to Jigsaw's traps, so I wouldn't really call her a 'survivor' at all, and she'd be way way down on the list of likely survivor characters compared to Amanda Young. Gut says it MUST be a fakeclaim.

3. PT Behaviour Night 1 onwards:


During Night 1, ABR suddenly became frantically active in the PT, having neglected it for a while before that (me and Pine were both stuck in traps at this point of course). He claimed his role and flavour, and also claimed that Xtoxm was a "mailman" (incidentally, not what he flipped), and then gave the story I repeated yesterday in order to make me suspect Xtoxm, which on reflection may not have been true. He was not keen on my suggestion of lynching those not in a PT, which suggests if ABR flips scum, there is some more credence to it. I made it clear that I didn't trust him (by not reciprocating his claim, or sharing info about what happened to me in my trap), and since then he has become very angry and aggressive in the PT.

4. Momo wagon:


ABR was not at all eager to get on the Momo wagon, despite my endless cajoling, and the fact he was pretty happy wagonning everybody else.

5. His approach to the hood:


ABR was very keen to reveal the identities of people in the hood, has put lots of effort into protecting everyone in that hood during the day, and has taken a firm line that 1 scum-flip confirms the others as town. Which is exactly what he would do as scum, knowing that 50% of the hood was scum.

6. No Traps:


If ABR was town, I think he would have been high on the list for scum to trap. He has claimed that he doesn't have any immunity to this. This is not conclusive, but very suspicious given scum have focussed on other veterans like me and Farside.

I'm stopping at 6 for now, there is more, but I think that's plenty, and everything else in the main thread so you can form your own view.

Vote: ABR
By far the dumbest case I ever read and way worse than Xtoxm.

You have lost all credibility after yesterday.
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Post Post #1833 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:37 am

Post by Vecna »

As for my reveal, my role is literally that im someone's son. Apparently ive disappeared, ran away from home or something, and my dad is most likely being a badass and searching for me. Not sure if that role flavour has any relation to game mechanics or if its just fluff, but I bet its probably reflected in my dads PM in some way.

I know that Vaultdweller is my dad. His name is Eric Matthews, and my role pm confirms him as town to me. It also states he does not know my identity.

I wanted to keep this hidden for as long as possible, especially after it appeared Vaultdweller was taking the lurking approach and was unlikely to be killed early. I figured if I were to die, my role pm would still make him an IC (confirmed by mod in pm). If both of us were to survive to endgame it would significantly increase our chances of winning.

I know this might not townclear me in any way, but it should at least inform your decisions going forward.

I wanted to claim it yesterday after all the trap stuff and people killing eachother left and right to avoid someone accidentally killing a town IC, but then the day was suddenly over.
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Post Post #1834 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:40 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Why was BM so sure of xtoxm yesterday that every post he made was a death tunnel?

Without me there's no momo lynch Day 1. BMs theory is 2 scum in a 4 person hood AND I TRY TO MURDER BOTH MY HOOD MATES PINE AND BM N1?????
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Post Post #1835 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:42 am

Post by Vecna »

In post 1748, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Well we already know Xtoxm's claim actually since he sent it to me via pm last night.
In post 1713, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1711, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1708, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Yeah Blake, what do you think about dany?
She's just protecting Xtoxm dude, it's distraction tactics.
You've got my support but I think both should claim today.
In post 1754, Albert B. Rampage wrote:VOTE: xtoxm
In post 1749, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Ayt. Pisskop wanna vote xtoxm?

You say you feel extremely "betrayed" by the xtoxm wagon?
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Post Post #1836 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:42 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Maybe BM is paranoid because all my predictions are accurate, everyone killed at night was someone I townread so far. In any case Blake is scum and after today we can stop listening to BM forever.
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Post Post #1837 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:45 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1824, Vecna wrote:
In post 1780, GuiltyLion wrote:I still kinda want to just lynch iDanyBoy or Gamma in a vacuum, they're my strongest independent scumreads.

Yesterday I felt that Blake was scum but given that ABR/BM are both still alive, I'm a little less eager to jump to a quick conclusion there. I'm also not sure it's something that has to be resolved today.
Guilty lion keeps posting exactly the thoughts that are in my head.

How did both ABR and BM survive both N1 and N2 after that D1?

It might be a scum ploy to make them look suspicious, but in this game town has plenty of stuff to be suspicious about already.

It stands out.

Also, blake and Drixx seem to have zero interest in thsi game at all. Drixx makes a post and its some talk about his internal mech thinking. Who does that after all the shit that has gone down as town, knowing you havent participated in the main threat at all (pretty much).

Also, that hammer on Xtox went through reallly really quickly.....
Spoiler: It's because ABR is scum. :giggle:
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1838 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:46 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

In post 1835, Vecna wrote:
In post 1748, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Well we already know Xtoxm's claim actually since he sent it to me via pm last night.
In post 1713, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1711, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1708, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Yeah Blake, what do you think about dany?
She's just protecting Xtoxm dude, it's distraction tactics.
You've got my support but I think both should claim today.
In post 1754, Albert B. Rampage wrote:VOTE: xtoxm
In post 1749, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Ayt. Pisskop wanna vote xtoxm?

You say you feel extremely "betrayed" by the xtoxm wagon?
I was townreading Xtoxm. His idea Xtoxm was Jigsaw didn't even make any sense but I was too annoyed to fight for a blake lynch.

After the flip I just realized he wanted to kill xtoxm for personal reasons. I tried to get him on track yesterday but his confbias was too annoying to deal with for a whole day.

I feel disgusted by the whole thing and I should never give leadership up to BM or any inferior player.
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Post Post #1839 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:47 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

In post 1837, Battle Mage wrote:Spoiler: It's because ABR is scum.
Stop being annoying. Remember what happened yesterday.
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Post Post #1840 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:48 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1830, Vecna wrote:
In post 1818, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1816, Morning Tweet wrote:relying on info from your neighbourhood is responsible for both our pretty good day one performance (partly), as well as the botched d2. a mixed bag of results it is isnt it
Well in my defence, Day 1 was based on my own independent scum-read of Momo. Day 2 was based on my interpretation of what ABR told me, which was (as revealed)
at least
partially untrue.
Would scum ABR really focus on hunting scum in his own neighbourhood if 50% there is scum though?
That's precisely my point - he hasn't. He's just asserted we are town and that's it.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1841 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:49 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1839, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1837, Battle Mage wrote:Spoiler: It's because ABR is scum.
Stop being annoying. Remember what happened yesterday.
Yeah I trusted you, and we lynched town. But now I know you are scum.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1842 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:49 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

In post 1840, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1830, Vecna wrote:
In post 1818, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1816, Morning Tweet wrote:relying on info from your neighbourhood is responsible for both our pretty good day one performance (partly), as well as the botched d2. a mixed bag of results it is isnt it
Well in my defence, Day 1 was based on my own independent scum-read of Momo. Day 2 was based on my interpretation of what ABR told me, which was (as revealed)
at least
partially untrue.
Would scum ABR really focus on hunting scum in his own neighbourhood if 50% there is scum though?
That's precisely my point - he hasn't. He's just asserted we are town and that's it.
Why would I co-lead lynch on 1 scumbuddy and then kill both hoodmates N1? Your theory is stupid.
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Post Post #1843 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:49 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

In post 1841, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1839, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1837, Battle Mage wrote:Spoiler: It's because ABR is scum.
Stop being annoying. Remember what happened yesterday.
Yeah I trusted you, and we lynched town. But now I know you are scum.
Did I at any point suggest xtoxm be lynched? Never.
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Post Post #1844 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:50 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1836, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Maybe BM is paranoid because all my predictions are accurate, everyone killed at night was someone I townread so far. In any case Blake is scum and after today we can stop listening to BM forever.
The only scum player you've gone against so far, based on flips, is Momo, and that was only because I forced you to.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1845 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:51 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1843, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1841, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1839, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1837, Battle Mage wrote:Spoiler: It's because ABR is scum.
Stop being annoying. Remember what happened yesterday.
Yeah I trusted you, and we lynched town. But now I know you are scum.
Did I at any point suggest xtoxm be lynched? Never.
No but you told me what he said to you at night, made it sound suspicious so I would run with it and you could stay out of trouble.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1846 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:52 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

I'm too mad at BM after xtoxm lynch and his continuing idiocy today.

I will avoid this game for a while so everyone can catch up.

Blake will flip scum and then we are back on track to win.
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Post Post #1847 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:52 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1842, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1840, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1830, Vecna wrote:
In post 1818, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1816, Morning Tweet wrote:relying on info from your neighbourhood is responsible for both our pretty good day one performance (partly), as well as the botched d2. a mixed bag of results it is isnt it
Well in my defence, Day 1 was based on my own independent scum-read of Momo. Day 2 was based on my interpretation of what ABR told me, which was (as revealed)
at least
partially untrue.
Would scum ABR really focus on hunting scum in his own neighbourhood if 50% there is scum though?
That's precisely my point - he hasn't. He's just asserted we are town and that's it.
Why would I co-lead lynch on 1 scumbuddy and then kill both hoodmates N1? Your theory is stupid.
You didn't 'co-lead' the lynch on Momo, you continued to push Hectic until the bitter end, and only jumped on Momo when there was no other option.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1848 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:53 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1846, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I'm too mad at BM after xtoxm lynch and his continuing idiocy today.

I will avoid this game for a while so everyone can catch up.

Blake will flip scum and then we are back on track to win.
We are lynching you today, because you are obvscum.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1849 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 12:55 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1838, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1835, Vecna wrote:
In post 1748, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Well we already know Xtoxm's claim actually since he sent it to me via pm last night.
In post 1713, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1711, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1708, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Yeah Blake, what do you think about dany?
She's just protecting Xtoxm dude, it's distraction tactics.
You've got my support but I think both should claim today.
In post 1754, Albert B. Rampage wrote:VOTE: xtoxm
In post 1749, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Ayt. Pisskop wanna vote xtoxm?

You say you feel extremely "betrayed" by the xtoxm wagon?
I was townreading Xtoxm. His idea Xtoxm was Jigsaw didn't even make any sense but I was too annoyed to fight for a blake lynch.

After the flip I just realized he wanted to kill xtoxm for personal reasons. I tried to get him on track yesterday but his confbias was too annoying to deal with for a whole day.

I feel disgusted by the whole thing and I should never give leadership up to BM or any inferior player.
Yesterday, in this main thread, you said you agreed with my case, and encouraged me (from the sidelines) to continue to lead the lynch. Now you are saying you townread Xtoxm and you didn't agree with the case.

I've got you dead to rights dude. :wink:
Show
2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
Locked