Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[pisskop]

Whereas lynching based on scummiest behaviour has you lower down the pecking order. So I stand by my point, but perhaps I wasn't clear about it.

I dont think Ive been scummy either. Hell, Ive been as town as a towny who went to town riding a pony with a feather in his hat! Its macaroni!

[Battle Mage]

My question for Gamma wasn't about giving the key, it was about revealing who the key went to.
If ABR is town, doesn't get lynched, and scum are the ones making the choices on traps, it tells them who not to trap.
If ABR is scum and this information makes us want to not lynch him, then that's bad too.

You make a fair point, but I don't think it makes Gamma scummy - giving a key to a player to save them from traps seems like a very noble thing to do.

[Gamma Emerald]

I believe his words were "I lead you into my hectic trap"

...whose words?

[Battle Mage]

This list is particularly odd, coming 1 page before you note that the key a motivating factor to dissuade you from an ABR lynch today. What happened in that 1 page to make you go from having ABR as "heavy town lean" to needing to find a reason

not

to lynch him?

Spoiler: new reads

TOWN BLOCK //
Battle Mage

HEAVY TOWN LEAN //
ABR, GeorgeBailey,

VaultDweller

MEDIUM TOWN LEAN //
Vecna,

GuiltyLion

WEAK TOWN LEAN //

BBMolla

Unsure //
pisskop,

Gamma

SOMEWHAT BAD LOOKS //
Blake, Davesaz, Drixx

TIME-OUT //
iDanyboy

Changes made in bold. No big analysis done here, just reaction changes made in light of recent events.

We need new material aside from BM's ABR case and my iDanyboy case. All you need to know about those should be in the last few pages (in theory). Let's have another multidimentional day like d1, rather than d2

[Gamma Emerald]

It's also funny reading back on the end of Day 1. Once Momo knew he was stuffed, he randomly started attacking ABR (to try and buy ABR some towncred later):

You think I'm the scum in our PT? I don't believe you.

It can't be anyone else.

momo - I know for a fact I'm town.
Pine - Yes, he's lurked a bit but nothing about his play seems particularly scummy.
Battle Mage - I don't like that he's scumreading me, but his casual tone and attempts at actually scumhunting don't seem scummy.
ABR - I can't read you well, but you've tried to make it seem like you're 100% town too deliberately and the way you're pushing this wagon is very sus. Your play seems scummy.

So yeah, out of the 4 of us, you're most likely scum.

No effort to bus too hard, but just hard enough to make people think it can't be SvS. Wrong Momo, wrong!

Yeah the evidence is stacking up against ABR here

I wasn’t sure about your initial case but you’ve since backed it up with a string of solid follow-up/proof.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah it would be really funny except in 150+ games I have never done that in my career, because I am bad at scum. I am ALWAYS the sacrificial lamb, and NEVER expected to go to to the end. Look at any of my scum games. I have NEVER played as if I'm good at scum. Look at my wiki.

Except this is your first game in a while and I know when I have long breaks my play tends to show a shift upon my return. Could be the same for you.

[Battle Mage]

It's also funny reading back on the end of Day 1. Once Momo knew he was stuffed, he randomly started attacking ABR (to try and buy ABR some towncred later):

You think I'm the scum in our PT? I don't believe you.

It can't be anyone else.

momo - I know for a fact I'm town.
Pine - Yes, he's lurked a bit but nothing about his play seems particularly scummy.
Battle Mage - I don't like that he's scumreading me, but his casual tone and attempts at actually scumhunting don't seem scummy.
ABR - I can't read you well, but you've tried to make it seem like you're 100% town too deliberately and the way you're pushing this wagon is very sus. Your play seems scummy.

So yeah, out of the 4 of us, you're most likely scum.

No effort to bus too hard, but just hard enough to make people think it can't be SvS. Wrong Momo, wrong!

Yeah the evidence is stacking up against ABR here

I wasn’t sure about your initial case but you’ve since backed it up with a string of solid follow-up/proof.

Ah thanks man, glad someone appreciates it.

[Vecna]

I still kinda want to just lynch iDanyBoy or Gamma in a vacuum, they're my strongest independent scumreads.

Yesterday I felt that Blake was scum but given that ABR/BM are both still alive, I'm a little less eager to jump to a quick conclusion there. I'm also not sure it's something that has to be resolved today.

Guilty lion keeps posting exactly the thoughts that are in my head.

How did both ABR and BM survive both N1 and N2 after that D1?

It might be a scum ploy to make them look suspicious, but in this game town has plenty of stuff to be suspicious about already.

It stands out.

Also, blake and Drixx seem to have zero interest in thsi game at all. Drixx makes a post and its some talk about his internal mech thinking. Who does that after all the shit that has gone down as town, knowing you havent participated in the main threat at all (pretty much).

Also, that hammer on Xtox went through reallly really quickly.....

BM was being extremely arrogant and annoying yesterday about xtoxm. I suspect BM still is going to be playing incredibly stupidly for the rest of the game and thats why hes alive. BM also claimed bulletproof so make of that what you will.

I'm a VT, no powers.

I feel incredibly betrayed by xtoxm lynch yesterday and BM had no remorse whatsoever. He's just incredibly dumb.

VOTE: Blake

Worth noting, ABR claimed on the first page of the PT "There are no VTs in this game".

So that was another lie then!

Basically today is simple: if I'm town, ABR is scum.

I'm gonna let all the personal digs slide, because I know I've got you nailed and you're panicking.

See I remembered it being role madness from the advertisements I saw and this affirms my suspicions.

@Dave the fact two games failed was why I claimed target, if they hadn’t I very likely wouldn’t have. But I figured whoever had it used it up and so I wanted to confirm that person as town and also remove some the stink that has surrounded me up to now.

This is actually a good point

From the rule/game section:

Game Mechanics

-Everybody has an identity with some sort of ability and secrets to hide.

-Jigsaw's Games - Make agonizing choices to survive the traps! Will you live or die?
-

Jigsaw's Chosen

vs

Jigsaw's Acolytes.

Confirmed 16 vs 5.
-All chats are confirmed to have pregame + daychat.
-Only flavor from

Saw

through

Jigsaw

is being used. No

Spiral: From The Book of Saw

, sadly.
-Role PMs flip upon death, with possible redactions.

[pisskop]

awww shit.

ABR claimed neighbor without power, didnt he . . .

[Vecna]

Yet ABR claims to be a bland child VT with no abilities whatsoever

[Battle Mage]

awww shit.

ABR claimed neighbor without power, didnt he . . .

yup

[Vecna]

would just being in a PT, while 90% of the game is in one, qualify for that?

[Gamma Emerald]

STILL waiting for GE to show up and spill his guts.

Btw I’m glad Drixx did this but I don’t know if it would be foolish to townread him for it so I’m hesitant to

[pisskop]

VOTE: unovte

Sorry bud, the ride stops here.

VOTE: abr

[Morning Tweet]

This list is particularly odd, coming 1 page before you note that the key a motivating factor to dissuade you from an ABR lynch today. What happened in that 1 page to make you go from having ABR as "heavy town lean" to needing to find a reason

not

to lynch him?

Spoiler: new reads

TOWN BLOCK //
Battle Mage

HEAVY TOWN LEAN //
ABR, GeorgeBailey,

VaultDweller

MEDIUM TOWN LEAN //
Vecna,

GuiltyLion

WEAK TOWN LEAN //

BBMolla

Unsure //
pisskop,

Gamma

SOMEWHAT BAD LOOKS //
Blake, Davesaz, Drixx

TIME-OUT //
iDanyboy

Changes made in bold. No big analysis done here, just reaction changes made in light of recent events.

We need new material aside from BM's ABR case and my iDanyboy case. All you need to know about those should be in the last few pages (in theory). Let's have another multidimentional day like d1, rather than d2

im gonna need you to run that one by me again.

you're surprised I'm defending someone i think is probably town?

Originally I thought there was some merit to your case, like the part around how 2 scum in survivor neighbourhood would explain why he wants to say theres 1 scum in each neighbourhood, but i wanted to play ABR's lawyer cause he didnt seem like he was gonna defend himself. I found reasons to defend against the flavour portions of your case. I also believe that momos flip suggests that the acolytes are not locked into their own PTs.

ABR's reaction has kinda also made me think he's town. Again, im very susceptible to AtE though.

Pedit: Are you guys forgetting that momo literally flipped as a neighbour without powers?

[SirCakez]

This game is confirmed Role Madness, there are no Vanilla Townies or Mafia Goons.

[pisskop]

would just being in a PT, while 90% of the game is in one, qualify for that?

If its role madness, then no.

If this is powered like a normal then yes.

[Battle Mage]

would just being in a PT, while 90% of the game is in one, qualify for that?

Although I must admit, this speculation might not be helpful if we do have legit VTs - last thing we want is to make scums life easier...

[Vecna]

lol, and the mod just comes in here to stomp on ABR some more without being prompted

[Morning Tweet]

guys. seriously. ABR is either using a mod fake claim of survivor neighbour, or his actual role is survivor neighbour. do not jump on him because you think the role is fake. it is not.

[Morning Tweet]

I struggle to believe that you guys really think ABR slipped and accidentally claimed VT or something. BM, didn't we already discuss that?

[Vecna]

guys. seriously. ABR is either using a mod fake claim of survivor neighbour, or his actual role is survivor neighbour. do not jump on him because you think the role is fake. it is not.

Maybe the mod provided them a group of fakeclaims for all scum to use. Maybe only 1 survivor fakeclaim was provided, and it was already used by momo

[Battle Mage]

This list is particularly odd, coming 1 page before you note that the key a motivating factor to dissuade you from an ABR lynch today. What happened in that 1 page to make you go from having ABR as "heavy town lean" to needing to find a reason

not

to lynch him?

Spoiler: new reads

TOWN BLOCK //
Battle Mage

HEAVY TOWN LEAN //
ABR, GeorgeBailey,

VaultDweller

MEDIUM TOWN LEAN //
Vecna,

GuiltyLion

WEAK TOWN LEAN //

BBMolla

Unsure //
pisskop,

Gamma

SOMEWHAT BAD LOOKS //
Blake, Davesaz, Drixx

TIME-OUT //
iDanyboy

Changes made in bold. No big analysis done here, just reaction changes made in light of recent events.

We need new material aside from BM's ABR case and my iDanyboy case. All you need to know about those should be in the last few pages (in theory). Let's have another multidimentional day like d1, rather than d2

im gonna need you to run that one by me again.

you're surprised I'm defending someone i think is probably town?

Originally I thought there was some merit to your case, like the part around how 2 scum in survivor neighbourhood would explain why he wants to say theres 1 scum in each neighbourhood, but i wanted to play ABR's lawyer cause he didnt seem like he was gonna defend himself. I found reasons to defend against the flavour portions of your case. I also believe that momos flip suggests that the acolytes are not locked into their own PTs.

ABR's reaction has kinda also made me think he's town. Again, im very susceptible to AtE though.

Pedit: Are you guys forgetting that momo literally flipped as a neighbour without powers?

No, MorningTweet, I'm surprised you suggest that you're struggling with some conundrum about whether to lynch him or not, when 1 page earlier you said he was highly likely town, and the only thing which changed in the meantime was we learnt he had a key, which you admitted, made you even LESS inclined to lynch him. The inconsistency here reads as odd -

Others, please note this.

I don't really know what this means about your alignment, but it's strange enough that I think people should read and form their own views.

[Gamma Emerald]

During Night 1, ABR suddenly became frantically active in the PT, having neglected it for a while before that (me and Pine were both stuck in traps at this point of course). He claimed his role and flavour, and also claimed that Xtoxm was a "mailman" (incidentally, not what he flipped), and then gave the story I repeated yesterday in order to make me suspect Xtoxm, which on reflection may not have been true.

So these are ABR's supposed lies, ya? And from what ABR told you, you came up with this:

Spoiler: BM's Xtoxm case

Last night Xtoxm shared his fakeclaim (postman) with ABR to try and protect himself, whilst simultaneously trying to kill me. Sent him a love-letter, basically telling ABR how big and strong he is, and promised to sheep him forever (admittedly, this is how ABR described it ). Firstly, there's no way in hell anyone town is doing that. Secondly, the likelihood of scum not putting a trap on ABR last night is reasonably slim given his profile (and I believe he's close-to-confirmed town), so deduce that the reason they didn't is because Xtoxm was going to target him (because if ABR was trapped he couldn't have received the letter). Thirdly, Xtoxm randomly asked on Day 1 to be investigated by different types of cop, and I assume only Jigsaw would be cop-proof, and would have a big incentive for an early clear investigation. Plus Jigsaw is probably not in a PT, so that gives a 1/6 chance anyway, and Xtoxm is clearly the scummiest player of the 6 on his own merit. Others have already made the case on his Day 1 voting pattern being dreadful, but also keeping himself quiet enough to avoid much interest. His only post today is a memorial for Elsa who was subjected to 2 traps last night. Hence we should Vote: Xtoxm

And then ABR responded with this:

All this is true and BM's case has merit, I won't deny it.

I can go for Xtoxm if everyone promises me you will lynch Blake if I die or I will endeavor to make you see Blake is scum for the rest of Day 2.

It sounds to me like all ABR did was tell you that Xtoxm sent him a love letter. Which we now know is true. And you made all the connections yourself. Now I dont blame you for the connections you drew, although I dont think ABR misfed you information here

That was 1 lie, my case set out lots of them. Including, as you note above, that he vehemently denied endorsing the Xtoxm case and supporting his lynch. He claimed Xtoxm was a mailman rather than an informant as he actually flipped (I don't actually know the difference, although the latter sounds more powerful, like he might have some knowledge?). Further we don't know if the contents of the letter are true - ABR-scum would be incentivised to make them up to make Xtoxm seem like scum. Or perhaps Xtoxm really did say the things he said in the letter, in which case lynching him was probably a blessing in disguise if he's planning to sheep scum for the whole game. I guess we'll never know. But I reckon ABR was clearly thrown by the fact I revealed his claim so soon, which would have given Xtoxm time to counter, but eh....we lynched too quick...

An additional point to be raised here is the attempted lynch chain ABR tried to set up: there was no clause regarding the Xtoxm flip, he just wanted Blake after. Iirc it was following that when ABR became good with it, so if ABR flips scum I’m inclined to townbin Blake.

[Battle Mage]

lol, and the mod just comes in here to stomp on ABR some more without being prompted

I know!

I was literally joking with the Mod earlier today about a time this happened to me recently.

I struggle to believe that you guys really think ABR slipped and accidentally claimed VT or something. BM, didn't we already discuss that?

I'm taking a slightly different position on this.

I don't think the fact he claimed VT necessarily means he is scum because there can't be any VTs.

BUT

Because he made a deliberate point of emphasising early in the game that there were no VTs, in the hood no less, I think it's odd that he then later claims VT. As in, because he made a point of emphasising no VTs, I assumed he would definitely have some kind of additional power rather than just a neighbour. So I believe he was intending to claim some town PR, and then later on forgot, making it a scumslip.