Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Morning Tweet]

@BM I think you're misinterpreting something I said, cause i dont really know what you're getting at. I expressed more of a willingness to lynch ABR after i learned he got a key? If it's not a bother, could you quote where i did that so i can see

[Gamma Emerald]

Mailman is a role that sends a letter to somebody else. Informant is a made up role name for this game. I think.

ABR wouldn't make up the contents of the letter. Xtoxm could have pointed out that he was lying.

BM I see you pointing out the odd turnaround from MT and I agree it’s rather curious but what I’m concerned about is this manner of defense. It seems MT is clinging to certain sticking points rather than trying to combat the full case, which seems like she knows she can’t do that with good results. That seems like a scum POV to me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

What, I'm the only player with no powers? I'm a simple neighbor, that's the only thing in my role pm.

[Vecna]

momo has been lynched day 1! He was

Logan Nelson, a "Jigsaw Survivor" aligned with Jigsaw's Acolytes

Welcome to Jigsaw's Revenge momo!

You are Logan Nelson, a "Jigsaw Survivor" aligned with Jigsaw's Acolytes

"I speak for the dead."

Abilities

-During the day, you may vote for whoever you want.
-As one of

Jigsaw's Acolytes

, you may discuss with other

Acolytes

here at all times: [REDACTED]
-Everyone who does not appreciate life must be tested. [REDACTED]
-You have infiltrated the group of Jigsaw survivors under the guise of

Simone.

As a Jigsaw Survivor, you may communicate with other Jigsaw Survivors here at all times: [REDACTED]
-You have many allies. [REDACTED]
-You have a cover for your evil schemes. Your assigned flavor fakeclaim is

Simone.

[REDACTED]

You win once all of

Jigsaw's Chosen

have been eliminated, or nothing can prevent it.
The game thread is here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82769

How is this a VT?

He had like 3 redacted things. The "everyone must be tested" is probably some trap ability of a specific nature we now havent seen.

Also, this reminds me that they only get a flavour fakeclaim. They have to make up the rest themselves. So the mod is not responsble for coming up with abilities for them.

ABR probably just failed to remember that himself.

[Morning Tweet]

I can't combat certain parts cause some are PT related. I mostly focused on the flavour and setup spec cause i know saw pretty decently.

seriously, his case has like 9 parts. Its scummy that I focus on certain things? Only some of them interest me to talk about

[Morning Tweet]

Also, this reminds me that they only get a flavour fakeclaim. They have to make up the rest themselves. So the mod is not responsble for coming up with abilities for them.

wait what?

How do you know this? That could change a lot, but i assumed that isnt the case?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think the more we talk about me, the more people get tricked into doubting their read of me. It's a simple mind trick of repeating something long enough.

I am not afraid of being lynched at all. My main concern is stifling real scumhunting by being a distraction.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the biggest part of your case that interests me is how if Amanda Young is in this game, she'd need to be in the Survivor hood. If momo's flip is any indication, anyway. His real role (Logan) and his fake role (Simone) were both survivors.

AH. I just realized. Amanda isnt a Jigsaw survivor. Not in the way your hood implies it. Your hood is a scene from Saw 3D. It's a bunch of people sitting in chairs at a church in a kind of support group.

https://sawfilms.fandom.com/wiki/Jigsaw_Survivor_Group

Logan Nelson is not a jigsaw survivor as described by your hood. Simone is.

BM, are you on this list of characters?

Spoiler:

Bobby Dagen
Simone
Mallick
Emily
Brad
Ryan
Tara Abbott
Lawrence Gordon
Addy
Sidney

If you are not, then the flavour is not perfectly linked. Thereby meaning ABR's claim (Corlett Denlon) not being linked doesnt matter.

Hey hold on I remember that surname (Denlon) flipped. What is the relation of Jeff and Cornett Denlon?

However regarding this point there are two possibilities for this group. Corley however seems to match neither. So I’m rather concerned MT treats this as a point to take down BM’s case.

[Vecna]

Also, this reminds me that they only get a flavour fakeclaim. They have to make up the rest themselves. So the mod is not responsble for coming up with abilities for them.

wait what?

How do you know this? That could change a lot, but i assumed that isnt the case?

Read the momo role PM I quoted. He got his own flavour fakeclaim. Doesnt say anything about abilities in it, leading me to believe they just got a flavour fakeclaim

[Vecna]

oh wait, it does say redacted afterwards. oops

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't have any REDACTED parts to my role pm.

Btw why tf would I claim unprompted on N1 to Pine and BM if I were scum? They weren't even in the PT since they got kidnapped, and I didn't know they were gone.

There's so many inconsistencies it's like swiss cheese.

[Battle Mage]

Mailman is a role that sends a letter to somebody else. Informant is a made up role name for this game. I think.

ABR wouldn't make up the contents of the letter. Xtoxm could have pointed out that he was lying.

BM I see you pointing out the odd turnaround from MT and I agree it’s rather curious but what I’m concerned about is this manner of defense. It seems MT is clinging to certain sticking points rather than trying to combat the full case, which seems like she knows she can’t do that with good results. That seems like a scum POV to me.

Yes, this is exactly how I feel. It's like she obviously knows ABR is probably scum, and I can live with the idea that she is just playing devil's advocate because she's a nice person. But, it never seemed remotely like she was keen to lynch ABR - every possibly excuse was used to resist my persuasion, so if she was town, I'd have to say that her heart was not in an ABR lynch. Yet, 1 page later, suddenly she seems much more into the idea, to the point that the main reason she won't is because of the key. Nothing happened in the meantime, so it's a change of perspective which I can't explain. I suppose you'd have to say that she really doesn't want ABR lynched, because she did bother to engage with me.

The problem is:

If she was scum and ABR was town, I don't think she would go to that great trouble to get a small amount of town-cred when he flipped (unless she was scared that it would be her next on the chopping block). Seems unlikely.
If she was scum and ABR was scum, she would probably just go along with my theory because it would confirm her town and she could go on and win the game.

So I can't see it necessarily makes her scum in either scenario, although more likely worth a sniff if ABR is town.

[Vecna]

Still, the way its worded, that assumption might not be too far off

[Morning Tweet]

@Vecna Blake and I discussed momo's rolecard in our PT.

The mod clarified it for us, here's a paraphrase:

Momo's role was jigsaw survivor, meaning he had access to the jigsaw survivor chat. Everything else on the card was relating to his faction, not his role.

He clarified this for us because its public info on the role card.

Momo was a mafia neighbour. His fake claim was Town 1-shot trapproof neighbour.

[Battle Mage]

Also, this reminds me that they only get a flavour fakeclaim. They have to make up the rest themselves. So the mod is not responsble for coming up with abilities for them.

wait what?

How do you know this? That could change a lot, but i assumed that isnt the case?

Read the momo role PM I quoted. He got his own flavour fakeclaim. Doesnt say anything about abilities in it, leading me to believe they just got a flavour fakeclaim

This is definitely possible.

I think the biggest part of your case that interests me is how if Amanda Young is in this game, she'd need to be in the Survivor hood. If momo's flip is any indication, anyway. His real role (Logan) and his fake role (Simone) were both survivors.

AH. I just realized. Amanda isnt a Jigsaw survivor. Not in the way your hood implies it. Your hood is a scene from Saw 3D. It's a bunch of people sitting in chairs at a church in a kind of support group.

https://sawfilms.fandom.com/wiki/Jigsaw_Survivor_Group

Logan Nelson is not a jigsaw survivor as described by your hood. Simone is.

BM, are you on this list of characters?

Spoiler:

Bobby Dagen
Simone
Mallick
Emily
Brad
Ryan
Tara Abbott
Lawrence Gordon
Addy
Sidney

If you are not, then the flavour is not perfectly linked. Thereby meaning ABR's claim (Corlett Denlon) not being linked doesnt matter.

Hey hold on I remember that surname (Denlon) flipped. What is the relation of Jeff and Cornett Denlon?

However regarding this point there are two possibilities for this group. Corley however seems to match neither. So I’m rather concerned MT treats this as a point to take down BM’s case.

Jeff is the dad of Corbett. Both her parents died in Jigsaw's games, and both are also dead in this game.

[Morning Tweet]

@BM You're seriously misinterpreting me. The main thing holding me back from ABRs lynch is not the key. The key is an extra block added to the tower of reasons in my head for me not wanting to lynch him

[Vecna]

Ok thanks MT

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think people who are doubting my alignment are being tricked by repeitition and falling into confbias, and starting to suffer the same laziness I did yesterday.

At some point it's easier to just go with the majority, and when 1 player makes 13 posts in 1 page it feels like that 1 player IS the majority. Just destroys critical thinking from everyone and creates doubt.

Does anyone think there's an actual strong case on me besides BM?

Cause when BM was all like "xtoxm is jigsaw" and reverse engineered everything that happened to make it fit, I was like "oh strong case".

Turns out it was a weak ass case and BM proceeded to just SHRUG IT OFF LIKE IT NEVER HAPPENED.

Which is what I suspect will happen again if I flip.

[Gamma Emerald]

I can't combat certain parts cause some are PT related. I mostly focused on the flavour and setup spec cause i know saw pretty decently.

seriously, his case has like 9 parts. Its scummy that I focus on certain things? Only some of them interest me to talk about

Not enough honey. Sure you may only take interest in certain parts and some things may be hard to discuss due to the closed-door nature of the topic but I still think your approach is scummy. You are finding the one or two things that don’t quite fit and arguing that those are enough reason to not lynch ABR. And the turnaround BM pointed out feeds into that, as well as fitting a personal scum tell I’ve developed, where scum will latch onto a point that a townie proposes if it sounds better than what they’re currently using for logic, regardless of optics. I suggested that we spare ABR because of the key and you suddenly pick up on that as your key (no pun intended) reason to not lynch ABR.

So BM there’s a reason what you observed happened.

[Battle Mage]

@Vecna Blake and I discussed momo's rolecard in our PT.

The mod clarified it for us, here's a paraphrase:

Momo's role was jigsaw survivor, meaning he had access to the jigsaw survivor chat. Everything else on the card was relating to his faction, not his role.

He clarified this for us because its public info on the role card.

Momo was a mafia neighbour. His fake claim was Town 1-shot trapproof neighbour.

Did the Mod confirm he was given a fakeclaim?

Would be useful to get that confirmed in thread I think.

MOD: Can you please confirm Momo was given a fake role as well as flavour?

If so, we'll need to be a little bit more cautious. And it would also make me wonder about ABR - why claim vanilla if you have some bespoke fake roleclaim?

[Gamma Emerald]

@BM You're seriously misinterpreting me. The main thing holding me back from ABRs lynch is not the key. The key is an extra block added to the tower of reasons in my head for me not wanting to lynch him

See this is exactly what I felt was the case. It’s not the only thing but it

looked like it

because MT latched onto it in the way scum do.

[Morning Tweet]

I can't combat certain parts cause some are PT related. I mostly focused on the flavour and setup spec cause i know saw pretty decently.

seriously, his case has like 9 parts. Its scummy that I focus on certain things? Only some of them interest me to talk about

Not enough honey. Sure you may only take interest in certain parts and some things may be hard to discuss due to the closed-door nature of the topic but I still think your approach is scummy. You are finding the one or two things that don’t quite fit and arguing that those are enough reason to not lynch ABR. And the turnaround BM pointed out feeds into that, as well as fitting a personal scum tell I’ve developed, where scum will latch onto a point that a townie proposes if it sounds better than what they’re currently using for logic, regardless of optics. I suggested that we spare ABR because of the key and you suddenly pick up on that as your key (no pun intended) reason to not lynch ABR.

So BM there’s a reason what you observed happened.

There's no turnaround, he's misunderstanding me somehow.. the key just further put ABR in my do not lynch pile. It is not my only defense. I feel like this should have been obvious since I've been talking abt it for so many pages

[Albert B. Rampage]

Meanwhile BM thinks I'm the "strong scum", the "hardest scum to catch", like no dude I'm just town. If you don't overcomplicate things trying to go after the "one scum nobody would suspect", we can be successful at actually lynching scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

Pine told me himself that your PT is themed like a support group.

I know one other person remains from this group. Whomever that is, could you confirm this as well as possibly expand on it?

[Morning Tweet]

@BM You're seriously misinterpreting me. The main thing holding me back from ABRs lynch is not the key. The key is an extra block added to the tower of reasons in my head for me not wanting to lynch him

See this is exactly what I felt was the case. It’s not the only thing but it

looked like it

because MT latched onto it in the way scum do.

So you think I would only use the key as an extra incentive not to lynch ABR if i were scum

(>﹏<) ok..

In reality, i feel theres no stopping BM's wrath at this point and i wanted to see if the key would convince BM to wait 1 extra day. cause i wanna lynch elsewhere