Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Gamma Emerald]

The MT post isn’t supposed to be there

[Albert B. Rampage]

Gamma thats fine youre in my POE too.

[Battle Mage]

@BM No, blake and I had confirmation that momo was a mafia neighbour. Didnt ask mod about the fake claim tho, so vecnas assertion was a surprise to me

In that case, I'm going to stick with the assumption that scum are not given fake roleclaims, and this does not make ABR more likely town.

In reality, i feel theres no stopping BM's wrath at this point and i wanted to see if the key would convince BM to wait 1 extra day. cause i wanna lynch elsewhere

Yes I felt the same yesterday, that

no matter what I tried to do to stop xtoxm from being lynched, people just werent going to listen and it would be a waste of time.

And I didn't know 100% if he was town, of course. The more bm posted the more I wanted to believe it and confbiased myself lazily.

I assume you're reading this, MorningTweet?

Hehe (* >ω<)

It is a little tempting just to give in, you are such a relentless force. Gut says to do otherwise though

This is what I don't understand about you. At this point, it's beyond obvious that ABR is scum, and you know it, in your head, in your heart. So why do you resist? What do you know that we don't? It really stands out to me, you're posturing hard against the tide here.

1. It's game breaking if the Acolytes are all in their real PTs

2. Logan wasnt in the support group. Which is your theming. You have a picture of chairs in a circle or something, ya? That's your theme, and only you and momo's fake role fit with it.

That fact that Corbett and Perez don't align with this theming just makes it even more apparent that the hoods dont perfectly align with role flavour. Corbett IS either ABRs real role or his fakeclaim. Corbett is considered a Jigsaw Survivor. It doesnt matter if Logan is considered a jigsaw survivor or not-- any character can pass as one if Corbett can

1: no it’s not, I just had a Mafia game get broken by the setup and that wouldn’t do it. There’s enough possible scum flavors for it to be a challenge to hunt by flavor.

2: You don’t know that for certain, or do you?

You are correct on both points here, despite MT saying otherwise. On point 2 specifically, she has (I believe) misunderstood the flavour link - confusing the survivor group in SAW 3D for the survivor group in this game, which is literally just people who survived Jigsaw, as per the flips we can see already. She's over-thinking it.

[Morning Tweet]

Pine told me himself that your PT is themed like a support group.

I know one other person remains from this group. Whomever that is, could you confirm this as well as possibly expand on it?

It's only me and ABR left from that, and I've confirmed that (from recollection, and because why would Pine lie). It doesn't mean anything though - MT's theory is that because it has the same theme which was used in 1 Saw film, everyone in the hood should be linked to that 1 film, whereas I believe Jigsaw Survivor could come from any film in the franchise.

We know Perez is considered a Jigsaw Survivor, and Corbett Denton counts as one too. Neither of them are jigsaw survivors.

That alone should tell you that you are relying too heavily on flavour

[Albert B. Rampage]

BM has rallied gamma and dani to vote for me clap clap great job you can have Blake voting me too.

[Albert B. Rampage]

At this point, it's beyond obvious that ABR is scum, and you know it, in your head, in your heart.

AtE WIFOM and nobody believes this outside of 4 players

[Morning Tweet]

BM i promise you that if I felt the same way you do about ABR being confirmed scum, i wouldnt be defending him. Also, let me respond to Gammas post myself, you talking for me is not gonna help

[Albert B. Rampage]

@MT

The only way out of this is for you and I to stop defending.

Stop the discussion now before scum gain momentum.

We should just go on the attack on Danny, and spam the thread 1000x times about Danny being scum and ignore everyone else, and call into question anyone defending Danny, and attack attack attack.

[Morning Tweet]

This is what I don't understand about you. At this point, it's beyond obvious that ABR is scum, and you know it, in your head, in your heart. So why do you resist? What do you know that we don't? It really stands out to me, you're posturing hard against the tide here.

wtf lol

[Albert B. Rampage]

No really, stop it MT. We need to go on the offensive.

[Gamma Emerald]

Pine has been vivisected by buzzsaw night 1! He was

Agent Lindsey Perez, a FBI Jigsaw Survivor aligned with Jigsaw's Chosen

Welcome to Jigsaw's Revenge Pine!

You are Agent Lindsey Perez, a FBI Jigsaw Survivor aligned with Jigsaw's Chosen

"You know, there are still a couple of things I can't quite wrap my head around."

Abilities

-During the day, you may vote for whoever you want to arrest on suspicion of being involved in the Jigsaw murders.
-As a member of the FBI, you may communicate with other FBI here at all times: [REDACTED]
-You've survived the Games before and possess a unique connection with others who have as well. You may communicate with other Jigsaw Survivors at all times here: [REDACTED]

You win once all of

Jigsaw's Acolytes

have been eliminated.
The game thread is here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82769

Okay so I got sent down the Mod ISO rabbit hole by some peculiar flavor text and found this, based on how it’s described the Survivor PT is people who “survived the Games”, which tells me they should have had some actual involvement in them. Which lends credence to BM’s doubt regarding ABR’a flavor.

[Battle Mage]

Votecount 1.13

Hectic (8) - momo, Albert B. Rampage, davesaz, Almost50, iDanyboy, Elsa Jay, xtoxm, Blake Belladonna
momo (5) - Hectic, Battle Mage, farside22, Morning Tweet, GuiltyLion
Drixx (2) - VaultDweller, Pine
xtoxm (1) - BBmolla
Battle Mage (1) - Vecna
BBmolla (1) - GeorgeBailey
Vecna (1) - Drixx
GuiltyLion (1) - Gamma Emerald
Pine (1) - Pisskop

Not voting (0)

(expired on 2020-05-01 15:10:00) remain until day end

With 21 players alive, it takes 11 to reach a majority.

VaultDweller is V/LA through Tuesday, April 28.
Drixx is V/LA through Friday, May 1.

"You'd be surprised what tools can save a life."

Do you really believe that momo and I are the two scum voting Hectic here?

Of course not. It's blake/danny.

I don't think 4 scum are on that wagon there. But the above is tantamount to a confession? You know just because you are scum, doesn't mean Dany is cleared.

Oh also @Gamma

There are only 5 jigsaw acolytes that I know of: Gordon, Hoffman, Jigsaw, Amanda, and Logan. And there are 5 scum in this game.

Not enough scum flavour. So I do think it's a bit broken.

We discussed earlier that there might be more, you seem to have forgotten this, or perhaps changed your mind?

I seriously have no idea why you are so attached to ABR....

She wants the town to win obviously something which you are sabotaging. How do you not feel bad for yesterday?

You were wrong about xtoxm. You act like you were right this whole time after you singlehandedly mislynched xtoxm. Its because he insulted you so you didnt like him, same with me.

BM just trying to confbias anyone who he feels insults him.

I feel like this is bordering on the personal stuff again. Please take this as the friendliest of warnings.

And don't let BM hold "secret PT knowledge" over your heads as an excuse to vote me.

I WAS THE ONE WHO SAID THE GAME SHOULD BE PLAYED IN THE GAME NOT THE PT. I only started posting in the PT after momo was lynched and I thought we were all town.

This is 100% a lie. He was active in the PT on Day 1, and I believe even said as much during Day 1 (deeming himself the hood leader or something). How can anyone think ABR is town at this stage, with all the lies....

Pine told me himself that your PT is themed like a support group.

I know one other person remains from this group. Whomever that is, could you confirm this as well as possibly expand on it?

It's only me and ABR left from that, and I've confirmed that (from recollection, and because why would Pine lie). It doesn't mean anything though - MT's theory is that because it has the same theme which was used in 1 Saw film, everyone in the hood should be linked to that 1 film, whereas I believe Jigsaw Survivor could come from any film in the franchise.

We know Perez is considered a Jigsaw Survivor, and Corbett Denton counts as one too. Neither of them are jigsaw survivors.

That alone should tell you that you are relying too heavily on flavour

This is incorrect, they are both Jigsaw survivors, although Corbett is a weak one. But I'll give the Mod his due, they both fit with the hood flavour, which is what I've been suggesting to you all day!

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma thats fine youre in my POE too.

I know and at this point I really don’t care.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Everyone wants to cherry pick things, but who has done a deep dive into danny's iso? Oh, what deep dive you say? HE MADE FIVE POSTS IN THIS ENTIRE GAME?

[Morning Tweet]

In my heart im not 100% that ABR is town. The possibility he is scum is there. Your case has not swayed me. He could he scum and my defense of his case I would say is still valid.

My current take on the situation is that ABR is town, and we should be focusing on different players. im gonna get clowned on really hard if ABR is scum, but like neither you nor Gamma have convinced me he is scum.

And repeating it over and over again is not helping me

@Gamma Pine's role, Agent Perez, has no involvement with a jigsaw game. She got injured by a doll exploding while she was investigating a crime scene though.

Corbett Denlon (ABR claim) is a little girl kidnapped by jigsaw.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I have made 200 posts in this game, of course you can pick things apart to say I'm scummy, maybe the ideal strategy for scum on this site is TO MAKE ENOUGH POSTS TO PROD DODGE?

FIVE POSTS ALL GAME? REALLY?

[Battle Mage]

This is what I don't understand about you. At this point, it's beyond obvious that ABR is scum, and you know it, in your head, in your heart. So why do you resist? What do you know that we don't? It really stands out to me, you're posturing hard against the tide here.

wtf lol

BM i promise you that if I felt the same way you do about ABR being confirmed scum, i wouldnt be defending him. Also, let me respond to Gammas post myself, you talking for me is not gonna help

But that's my point. I don't believe you, as town, could honestly still be defending him now. And even referring to yourself as defending him. It completely blows my mind...

As before, I guess that could mean if ABR is town, you are scum? I don't think you're doing this as his buddy. But you're giving me the heebyjeebies here.

At this point, it's beyond obvious that ABR is scum, and you know it, in your head, in your heart.

AtE WIFOM and nobody believes this outside of 4 players

I think the fact you're imploring MT to help you push Dany instead, implies you feel differently.

[Morning Tweet]

@BM What acolytes are there besides those five? Apologies if I forgot. I remember you mentioning Jigsaws wife. I dont think she's an acolyte though. Pretty sure she got killed by a game actually

[Albert B. Rampage]

Almost50 is still town.
Battle Mage is still town.
BBMolla is still town.

farside22 I'm going to townbin for right now, because I don't see a reason for her to lie about what the trap consisted of. Based on the 1501, I further assume that it's likely that this trap was set to force town to remove one of two players that scum want removed in order to save the cop. I will revisit this later on when there's more information about what the scumteam are likely trying to do, but I'm not seeing scum being placed into this position currently.
davesaz is likely town.
GuiltyLion is likely town.
Xtoxm is likely town.
Drixx is likely town.
Vecna is likely town.

GeorgeBailey and VaultDweller are slots I remember townreading throughout day one, but at this point I don't remember why anymore. Their relative lack of presence lately do not give me the best impression.
Pisskop is somebody I'm not going to be interested in lynching for right now. He isn't acting like the last time I saw him as scum, but he's also far more easy to sort when he's town later on in the game.

Morning Tweet and Albert B Rampage are both slots that I'm explicitly not townreading. However, I would like to look towards reading these two slots primarily by analyzing Farside22 further, which I will do later. Until then, I'm not interested in sorting these two slots directly.

Of the remaining two, I would prefer a lynch on Gamma Emerald.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

WTF is this???? WHY ISNT BLAKE EVEN MENTIONING DANNY????

Maybe... They are scum together???????

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think the fact you're imploring MT to help you push Dany instead, implies you feel differently.

Defending is stupid, never play defense. Always on offense.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Like for example how we need to coalesce together as a town against Danny who is the most obvscum in this entire game, or Blake who jumped onto Hectic as momo was starting to gain momentum. Two easy pickings for scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Almost50
Bandwagon go.

Hi MT.

Has anyone in this game played with Morning Tweet before? I'm not really liking the vibes I'm getting from her, but I don't if that's normal.

Post #165 is a clear attempt at budding someone that appears to be a town leader going into the game, but her posts become most problematic when you get to Post #174.

"But what if it's

, like,

one of those doors"

When speaking out loud, people naturally add in filled words such as "like" or "um" to fill space because they are uncomfortable with silence while they are thinking. Making a post with the word "like" as Morning Tweet did here is not natural, it's a deliberate decision. The only possible motivation I can imagine for that decision is to appear more trustworthy/relateable. There's no reason for town to make that decision and for that reason, I VOTE: Morning Tweet.

I think you're reaching here, I used to type like that aswell and the only reason I stopped is because it doesn't make sense most of the time.

I believe scum's fake claims are linked with there PT, so if it get's to late game and some one claims a flavor and that person should be in your respective hood they are probably scum.

@abr: not sure if you missed what my issue was. If there is no way to know who has access to the neighborhood, how do you know if every player posted is in the pt or not.

My post was a response to this post.

Lets say you are in the PT flavored gorillas, and some one claims orangutan and they haven't posted in your PT, then they are scum. This way scum are punished for not posting in there PT.

I guess I can actually see the comment possibly making sense from a town flavored character in a flavored hood. if danyBoy can confirm that that's what he is then I guess that solves like 90% of my issues with his post, maybe? though there is still a questionable assumption there that the scum in PTs have a fakeclaim that is also flavor linked to their PT. What if they had an entirely separate fakeclaim?

I am indeed in a flavoured PT, and if someone claimed a role that didn’t match the PT’s one then they would get lynched straight away. Say you’re in the Cartoon character hoods and someone on it claims to be Walter White they are probably scum.
I will post more later on tonight, I’ve been busy with work the last few days so I could only get a quick read.
Something I did see though is EJ refusing to say if she is in a hood and then in the next post say’s she isn’t in one.
VOTE: EJ

I have switched my read on ElsaJay and think she is town, I'm scum reading BM/Albert then just above null towards scum is Momo,pisskop and farside. I'll VOTE: BattleMage because his got more votes than Albert so far.

I have switched my read on ElsaJay and think she is town, I'm scum reading BM/Albert then just above null towards scum is Momo,pisskop and farside. I'll VOTE: BattleMage because his got more votes than Albert so far.

Why did you switch your reads on Elsa?

I only voted her because I found Post 448 and Post 465 strange. Why say you're not going to answer the question then a few posts later she answers the question. The reason I town read her now is because of her response Hectic.

@Danny: Do you think a response from Elsa about her life and roll is really alignment indicative, if so why? Or tell me exactly why her response came off town.

I do think it leans her to town and someone has posted that she prefers scum so just a small town read.

The longer Pine dodges this game while posting anywhere but here the more sure I am he's scum.

I played a game with him recently where he did just that, he was lynched and turned out to be town.

I think ABR pushing Vecna but never voting him is scummy and would like to know if anyone agrees or disagrees. Its the strongest read I have so would like to get some discussion on it.

This is my first game out of New York and I'm not used to playing with so many people so I'm finding it more difficult to get reads.

Removed ongoing game reference.

VOTE: Hectic
Not a bad wagon.

these were some of the (admittedly few) reads given by iDanyboy prior to his vote on Hectic. At the time of voting Hectic, it was being championed by ABR, who danyBoy previously called his strongest scumread, and momo, who Danyboy called 'just above null towards scum', and davesaz who iDanyboy hasn't commented on at all. Why is this 'not a bad wagon' in that case? What caused him to re-evaluate so massively on ABR, and why was this not indicated to the thread?.

I don't think about who I am voting with unless I have a a strong reason to believe they are guilty, plus with a game of this size I don't have a strong scum read and is hard to keep track of all the players. I found ABR's avoidance of the Vecna post weird but I also found Hectic's posting to be scummy and I wanted to get a wagon going that I agree with, and no one was voting ABR.

I don't have much of an opinion of him, He only has one post I didn't like but I prefer the Hectic wagon.

He has ~70 posts and he hasn't pushed anything.

That's now not when I voted.

I don't think it's a good push, it makes him a but more scummier as I disagree with most of his points and that fact that he could of made this push before he got a few votes on him is on my mind.

Yes Danyboy, why are you following the guy you CLAIM to suspect most, on his wagon of choice, rather than somebody you love and trust like me?

ABR's been on a bunch of wagons that I haven't liked, I like his push now so I voted with him.

I don't know what to say now.

ABR and BM have very similar posting styles so I realy don't get this hate. BM is playing the same as he did in day 1 and he loved him there.

VOTE: ABR

Let's look at all the posts Danny ever made. Wow. This is scummy as hell.

Spoilered quote wall

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler: new reads

TOWN BLOCK //
Battle Mage

HEAVY TOWN LEAN //
ABR, GeorgeBailey,

VaultDweller

MEDIUM TOWN LEAN //
Vecna,

GuiltyLion

WEAK TOWN LEAN //

BBMolla

Unsure //
pisskop,

Gamma

SOMEWHAT BAD LOOKS //
Blake, Davesaz, Drixx

TIME-OUT //
iDanyboy

Changes made in bold. No big analysis done here, just reaction changes made in light of recent events.

We need new material aside from BM's ABR case and my iDanyboy case. All you need to know about those should be in the last few pages (in theory). Let's have another multidimentional day like d1, rather than d2

I’m curious, what caused me and BB to shift here?

Also not a fan of what feels like you short selling the ABR case.

[Morning Tweet]

This is what I don't understand about you. At this point, it's beyond obvious that ABR is scum, and you know it, in your head, in your heart. So why do you resist? What do you know that we don't? It really stands out to me, you're posturing hard against the tide here.

wtf lol

BM i promise you that if I felt the same way you do about ABR being confirmed scum, i wouldnt be defending him. Also, let me respond to Gammas post myself, you talking for me is not gonna help

But that's my point. I don't believe you, as town, could honestly still be defending him now. And even referring to yourself as defending him. It completely blows my mind...

As before, I guess that could mean if ABR is town, you are scum? I don't think you're doing this as his buddy. But you're giving me the heebyjeebies here.

You said the same darned thing to Blake yesterday, and see where that got ya!

You are so confident in your own reads that the act of me defending ABR implicates that I cannot be town for you, on the basis that ABR is so scummy it's impossible for town to see

Try to see my town perspective here, please. It's going to be impossible to have a meaningful discussion if you think that your case is so solid that town is incapable of doubting it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You said the same darned thing to Blake yesterday, and see where that got ya!You are so confident in your own reads that the act of me defending ABR implicates that I cannot be town for you, on the basis that ABR is so scummy it's impossible for town to seeTry to see my town perspective here, please. It's going to be impossible to have a meaningful discussion if you think that your case is so solid that town is incapable of doubting it.

Hey. I didn't ask you to be my lawyer. STOP DEFENDING ME.

I am going after Danny.

Gamma got really jumpy along with some others after I said blake and danny and gamme could all be scum together. Enough to vote for me even.

Danny is definitely flipping scum.