Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay you just said you skimmed so that explains why you seem to missing some of the details

FYI GL I am liking your approach rn, you seem to be arguing in good faith here.

[GuiltyLion]

Because he made a deliberate point of emphasising early in the game that there were no VTs, in the hood no less, I think it's odd that he then later claims VT. As in, because he made a point of emphasising no VTs, I assumed he would definitely have some kind of additional power rather than just a neighbour. So I believe he was intending to claim some town PR, and then later on forgot, making it a scumslip.

I think scum!ABR would be smarter than this, don't you?

[Drixx]

The personal attacks and angry posting are highlights of ABR's town play from what I remember.

[GuiltyLion]

I'd love to hear why you think me defending ABR is a move for towncred rather than just town that thinks you're likely to be wrong. pretty nice amount of towncred its gotten me so far hasnt it?

I think defending players is white knighting = scum. Don't defend, ever. Always go on attack.

I think pressing people on the reasons they have for scumreading players, especially the weak ones, is one of the best ways to find scum

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the biggest part of your case that interests me is how if Amanda Young is in this game, she'd need to be in the Survivor hood. If momo's flip is any indication, anyway. His real role (Logan) and his fake role (Simone) were both survivors.

AH. I just realized. Amanda isnt a Jigsaw survivor. Not in the way your hood implies it. Your hood is a scene from Saw 3D. It's a bunch of people sitting in chairs at a church in a kind of support group.

https://sawfilms.fandom.com/wiki/Jigsaw_Survivor_Group

Logan Nelson is not a jigsaw survivor as described by your hood. Simone is.

BM, are you on this list of characters?

Spoiler:

Bobby Dagen
Simone
Mallick
Emily
Brad
Ryan
Tara Abbott
Lawrence Gordon
Addy
Sidney

If you are not, then the flavour is not perfectly linked. Thereby meaning ABR's claim (Corlett Denlon) not being linked doesnt matter.

Hey hold on I remember that surname (Denlon) flipped. What is the relation of Jeff and Cornett Denlon?

However regarding this point there are two possibilities for this group. Corley however seems to match neither. So I’m rather concerned MT treats this as a point to take down BM’s case.

@GL

Essentially MT is acting like she is right without just cause to do so as far as I can tell regarding her view on the meaning of that hood. The hood can either be people who were in that list (which Corlett straight up doesn’t fit) or people who survived Jigsaw’s traps/games (which Corlett also doesn’t fit too well because of being an extortion piece for one of the actual participants). Either way ABR’s claim doesn’t match flavor there. MT acts like this is enough to disprove it because Amanda isn’t in that group but ABR could be someone else who is, which is known as the Fallacy Fallacy (arguing because someone used a logical fallacy their argument has no merit).

[Gamma Emerald]

Confirm vote: iDanny

This is ironic with what follows

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm really getting serious scum vibes out of BM, specifically today.

Yup. Me too.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Flavor is entirely NAI so is setup spec.

[Gamma Emerald]

BM im still confident you're town and slightly less confident ABR is town.

ABR is (I hope) joking about spamming idany is scum. Making one post about why i think iDany is scum is fine.

im so tired :c

suggestion: sleep on it, and join the righteous wagon tomorrow.

Maann

it's a feels bad knowing that ABR could be scum, and if he is, you're gonna absolutely destroy me sometime later for not believing your case. if he's scum, i honestly think itd be incidental to a lot of your case. The flavour reasons at least.

If he's town ill feel moderately good though (^ω^)

The flavor is NOT the majority of the case though and maybe if you engaged with the rest of it (outside the PT stuff) that might click?

[Gamma Emerald]

Flavor is entirely NAI so is setup spec.

Great! You’re still the scummiest by play

[GuiltyLion]

alright lemme claim about my game, then I'll have to return again later

I was put into the blade box, where I had been poisoned and the antidote was inside a box only accessible by sticking my wrists through blades. I had two options -
a) do nothing and die at the end of the night due to poison
b) reach into the box and retrieve the antidote. If I do so, I would suffer such great pain that I would 'be a distraction' to town the next day, which means we wouldn't be able to Lynch.

Now, I am

Jill Tuck

and my power is I have inside knowledge of how Jigsaw's games work, which means I have an [x]-shot ability to disable them, so I took that option instead.

If games are the only killing avenue available to scum, this makes me

really hard

to kill. I see this is somewhat balanced by the sheer number of games that scum have - also given MT's explanation - but that's why I asked MT about how she got out of her game, because I was skeptical multiple townies would be able to do this. MT answering that they actually just took the worse choice which results in more games makes sense and gives me no qualms about her being town.

There's another aspect of my role that also gives slight negative utility, but I don't see it as pro-town to claim that at the moment. I will claim it later if it becomes relevant.

[GuiltyLion]

Flavor is entirely NAI so is setup spec.

Great! You’re still the scummiest by play

dude it is literally impossible for me to townread you when you say things like this

VOTE: iDanyboy

EASILY the most obvscum/scummiest slot by play. A million times more so than ABR. IMO not being willing to Lynch this slot today is nearly tantamount to a scum claim. BM can bluff all he wants about ABR being obvscum, his case being air tight, yada yada yadda, but there's no world where you can convince me you look at ABR's ISO and DanyBoy's ISO and find ABR the scummier of the two.

[Gamma Emerald]

@ABR put the quote monoliths in spoilers dude!!

(Sorry, I really feel like this fits what you just said)

[GuiltyLion]

also Gamma, I don't mean to stomp on you if you are town, but a number of your posts in the past few pages are taunting/shading through dirty/cheap potshots, not generating useful info or adding to a solve, or expressing new viewpoints. See 2259, 2255, 2240, 2232, it's like your goal is to taunt ABR and shade who still town reads that slot, and it doesn't serve a pro town agenda IMO

[Gamma Emerald]

Guilty!!! 1811 contains my recount of last night's nights events.

God the BM/ABR dynamic is somewhat of a nightmare

You made it 100% worse and this game has become a shitshow, BM made 160+ posts in the last 12 hours basically repeating the same thing over and over in different ways, enabled by you who kept questioning him and asking from different angles.

This gives me the vibe that ABR is worried about the associations coming from what MT is doing

However I’ll also add in that I myself have told someone to back off defending me as town because I had it handled, however I also have let others defend me when I felt overwhelmed and I don’t think ABR is the type to do that.

[GuiltyLion]

EBWOP - shade *anyone who townreads that slot

[Albert B. Rampage]

VOTE: Danny

Drixx we can attack BM tomorrow. Let's try to get an easy scum today. Once MT and other people who believe BM is town come to their senses we'll be ready to flush him and his scumbuddies out.

[Gamma Emerald]

also Gamma, I don't mean to stomp on you if you are town, but a number of your posts in the past few pages are taunting/shading through dirty/cheap potshots, not generating useful info or adding to a solve, or expressing new viewpoints. See 2259, 2255, 2240, 2232, it's like your goal is to taunt ABR and shade who still town reads that slot, and it doesn't serve a pro town agenda IMO

Well yes I am taunting him but I’m not directly aiming to shade those who defend him, as you can probably see with how I’m interacting with you. Drixx was just a knee-jerk reaction. As for why I’d taunt as town, I’m trying to learn how to have confidence and display an ego, which I’ve never tried before. So it probably looks scummy as hell for me historically but it’s the way I feel like my play needs to go in order to get better currently.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Gamma did BM ask you to take over the night shift in your scum daychat? You spend an awful lot of time trying to strategically maneuver the game state for a mislynch today.

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyway I’m all caught up with today’s posts and it’s bedtime for me so I’ll see you tomorrow (unless something take my time up unexpectedly again)

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma did BM ask you to take over the night shift in your scum daychat? You spend an awful lot of time trying to strategically maneuver the game state for a mislynch today.

It’s fun how hard you have to stretch to find a succinct scum play to put my actions into

[Albert B. Rampage]

This gives me the vibe that ABR is worried about the associations coming from what MT is doing

This was such a giant stretch I thought you might hurt yourself there Gamma.

[Battle Mage]

Because he made a deliberate point of emphasising early in the game that there were no VTs, in the hood no less, I think it's odd that he then later claims VT. As in, because he made a point of emphasising no VTs, I assumed he would definitely have some kind of additional power rather than just a neighbour. So I believe he was intending to claim some town PR, and then later on forgot, making it a scumslip.

I think scum!ABR would be smarter than this, don't you?

No? You think VT (plain old neighbour) ABR, would go in the hood chat and say "gee whizz, everyone has a PR this game!"?? And then later reveal he doesn't? I've gone back to read it, and for my take, it was pretty clear he wasn't referring to being a neighbour as not VT, he was crumbing something else.

The personal attacks and angry posting are highlights of ABR's town play from what I remember.

I hear this in virtually every game, and the slot almost always flips scum.

I'm really getting serious scum vibes out of BM, specifically today.

Yup. Me too.

Ah, I see you're adopting an ABR strategy today.

ABR being Anyone-But-Rampage.

Flavor is entirely NAI so is setup spec.

Great! You’re still the scummiest by play

This^

also Gamma, I don't mean to stomp on you if you are town, but a number of your posts in the past few pages are taunting/shading through dirty/cheap potshots, not generating useful info or adding to a solve, or expressing new viewpoints. See 2259, 2255, 2240, 2232, it's like your goal is to taunt ABR and shade who still town reads that slot, and it doesn't serve a pro town agenda IMO

You're asking a lot here. The case is already clear, there's only so much new stuff Gamma can add. He's doing exactly what I'd expect from a good pro-town player, continuing to apply pressure and ensuring people aren't allowed to sneak by unnoticed without explaining why they are voting for less scummy players.

Gamma did BM ask you to take over the night shift in your scum daychat? You spend an awful lot of time trying to strategically maneuver the game state for a mislynch today.

I read stuff like this, and I can't see how anyone can think you're town.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Danny

Drixx we can attack BM tomorrow. Let's try to get an easy scum today. Once MT and other people who believe BM is town come to their senses we'll be ready to flush him and his scumbuddies out.

Nobody reading the game is buying you think I'm scum.

OK some people may wonder why I am upset?

After Xtoxm got lynched I unleashed a torrent of anger on BM in our PT yesterday within the first couple minutes of night, and then ignored him for the rest of N2.

This level of incompetence on his part is mind-boggling, and I fully blame myself for the part I played in this yesterday, which is why I continue to be upset today.

Here's a question for the class

BM also said something to this effect, so to some degree we know ABR yelled at BM in the hood.

Why would scum!ABR do that? Why is that his plan, instead of simply buddying/killing BM??

I don't think BM/ABR really would have taken all that much heat from the Xtoxm Lynch yesterday - Xtoxm was playing a lurky game and didn't have great associative with Momo. Tons of townies scumread him. So why would scum!ABR flip out after a town!BM pushed a pretty straightforward mislynch?

It just doesn't feel to me like it serves a scum-agenda.

I can answer this one. It's because he realised he couldn't manipulate me by sucking up, or making deals, and so he tried intimidation - as he did in this thread too. Just a scum tactic, nothing more.

Although what's interesting is, one of the things he was really angry about, was the idea of lynching Danyboy. Who suddenly, as his feet are to the flame, he thinks is a great lynch. Make of that what you will.

[Battle Mage]

Can we lynch Battle Mage? I'm getting super duper scum vibes there.

No? I’m concerned you think this.

Also very interesting to see ABR’s read on BM having turned like it has.

exactly wtf lol

This^

The only thing to say on this, is I am convinced ABR is scum. ABR seems to think I'm town, although did also crumb that I was Jigsaw (not sure why).

This dual approach is actually a scumtell and ABR’s actions recently add to this particular issue

The fact ABR didn’t even seem to think to push BM until Drixx initiated the idea is super awful. It also, despite my initial shocked response, probably indicates Drixx being Town.

This^

The only thing to say on this, is I am convinced ABR is scum. ABR seems to think I'm town, although did also crumb that I was Jigsaw (not sure why).

This dual approach is actually a scumtell and ABR’s actions recently add to this particular issue

The fact ABR didn’t even seem to think to push BM until Drixx initiated the idea is super awful. It also, despite my initial shocked response, probably indicates Drixx being Town.

I'm really getting serious scum vibes out of BM, specifically today.

And for ABR,

getting ragey is a town tell

. Or at least it was a few years ago.

This is why we have a problem on the site. Never heard anything so ridiculous.