Open 778: Nightless Vanilla [Game Over!]

[votato]

basically i put more weight on the early interactions and think the later interactions are easier to fake. so although i mostly agree with your reasoning on individual posts, i come to the opposite conclusion.
you think that scummy-->towny progression = towny.
i think that scummy-->towny progression = scummy.

at least in this case

[Isis]

It’s right there in 337, votato

I'm reading on my phone at doc office. Prefer to post with pc

[Firebringer]

so in general terms ur thinking someone has a bad early they are scum and not just have a bad start?

[Isis]

See look I accidentally proved why

[Green Crayons]

Sure, I'm in.

VOTE: Deimos27

[votato]

so in general terms ur thinking someone has a bad early they are scum and not just have a bad start?

in this case. but then again, i always have a bad start, so i cant really judge...

[Firebringer]

so in general terms ur thinking someone has a bad early they are scum and not just have a bad start?

in this case. but then again, i always have a bad start, so i cant really judge...

in what cases does this go in the other direction than does it just need to be more townie than it has been or what?

[Green Crayons]

Yeah by your logic, votato, i should maintain my scum read on you.

[votato]

FB notices that isis is online
isis defends by saying on phone, will post later, conveniently dropping phone wrong button slip
isis points out slip.

this doesnt really read as genuine to me


pedit: its gut. dunno what to tell you. i think good players should be expected to have good starts. im a bad player and you should expect bad things from me the entire game. if i accidentally have some good posts thats no more AI than my earlier bad posts.

[Albert B. Rampage]

votato is very wishy washy I don't know what to make of him...

[Firebringer]

FB notices that isis is online
isis defends by saying on phone, will post later, conveniently dropping phone wrong button slip
isis points out slip.

this doesnt really read as genuine to me


pedit: its gut. dunno what to tell you. i think good players should be expected to have good starts. im a bad player and you should expect bad things from me the entire game. if i accidentally have some good posts thats no more AI than my earlier bad posts.

okay.

don't think isis just lies about being at doctor office but w/e

[Green Crayons]

Stop being funny ABR.

[votato]

why do you say that ABR? in comparison to your other experience with me? i feel like im being uncharacteristically firm in my stances and reads here.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Firm, but easily forgotten like a fart in the wind.

[northsidegal]

Votecount 1.11

Target	Wagon
Deimos27 (4)	Firebringer (390), Albert B. Rampage (391), votato (392), Green Crayons (404)
votato (2)	humaneatingmonkey (105), Elements (230)
NorwegianboyEE (1)	Alisae (134)
Green Crayons (1)	Isis (228)
Firebringer (1)	Cycle Men (152)
Elements (1)	Looker (246)
Cycle Men (1)	NorwegianboyEE (155)
Not Voting (1)	Deimos27 (269)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-08 06:42:59).

[Isis]

First lets go post by post into each one and add some colorful insight. Then I will follow up with general summary of what I learned followed by CORRECT GUESS ON COLOR. Ohh also a read I guess. if ur into that thing.

Spoiler: Isis

18 Isis, trying to go in strong with the first post. What a try hard. Of course most of this is just show and not real effort. Maybe there to set the mood of what he is going to be doing later.

19 No the name is from the Egyptian god of the dead I believe.
23 This non-speaking normally in a idiosyncratic way is strange. Could be just fun loving rp/style kind of post. Still when someone is acting I am always thinking okay what u acting for.
41 Cool. Act dropped gave reads. Though since the reads are vague and im not going to pull this post to see what in reference to in the vagueness in language hard to tell how deep in thought these were but could just be general vibes.
44 This goes between old act and previous post. Overusage of words to describe something that could be done shorter. If Isis is rping what even is this character.
45 axolotl sounds weeb.
48 There isn't anything to analysis but Isis wants to analyze. I don't like this forceful push to move game forward players do. Let it flow naturally.
52 I didn't get this memo
53 Is isis expecting to get something readable from reaction to his first post? Or is this fake. I wouldn't take his first post serious nor would I think anyone really should. Isis has a more open mind than me.
57 I like this meta take on Elements. Not that I agree with it, just the highlight of "if it was anyone else". Shows he is factoring in normal player behavior into it.
63 Interesting this could indicate he planned that first post specifically for someone like Elements...
65 I am unaware of Elements/Isis relationship but Isis indicates a heavy knowledge of both his mentality and actions. It could be overstated. I would like to know more background on that to see if this is Pocketing or genuine. I am sure they played games, and I have too with Elements. But elements to me is semi-forgettable player in style.
67 I generally don't like these kinds of posts.
68 Here is the point where I go. Wow. Elements is mentioned so much. Is Isis protecting him because he knows Elements can be susceptible to mislynch? Does he actually believe he is town? Does he know he is town and just looking for ally/credit later. I need more background on that relationship.
69 Cool. Context. 5 games. Is that enough? Ehhhhhhhhh...might be enough for him to realize some things people pick on Elements for to point out. Fine. I am leaving this elements as a pass.
92 Its strange for context on nightless to this question because how does a scum or town answer this? "Go for the dangerous players" What differentiates a town or scum mindset. Maybe a mentality of player but I don't know if it will yield AI responses.

at this point im gonna start skipping posts. This is getting long.

94 This post is hard for me to understand
108 Lackadaisical response to pressure that I enjoy.
110 I am fine. How r u?
114 Good Post
116 And he thought I wouldn't vote myself.
120 Don't tell any pirates that.
121 Pressuring a non-presence, I am under assumption Isis has no reads here since he has yet to state a scumread. He mildly questioned votato and was defensive on the response. So I am thinking he is looking back to fish on what to do. Generally fine with this.
141 Showing that he thinks Norwee is projecting? Or maybe making fun of him. Should be voting him if its the first. First post I am generally like this comeback post was kind of scummy.
142 we just call ABR old fart these days.
143 Overanalysis into a post about not being here. Kind of questionable but could be just prodding here.
145 This and 146 is being very friendly towards 2 players. Isis is not known for being mean to players. But considering Isis, I am concerned of no scumreads. Minor pokes. And only one apparent town read.
188 If this post is true. 100% Isis is town here. Deciding not to masquerade as an alt would help his scum game only. Not his town game.
228 Why Green Crayons over Norwe? This defeats my "he is buddying" thing a bit.
251 Losing faith in Elements. Signaling a town paranoia
268 Confirms my "no strong reads" suspicion which isn't really like high level analysis.
303 So much focus on the votato role pm color. I forget sometimes that Isis focuses in on this stuff that I just don't care about. Not much to say but I don't like he townclears Deimos in a way here. Everything beyond that is fine.
304 This is one of those weird posts for scum to fake considering they have to be thinking "ohh I am gonna go see between these 2 timestamps when they posted and then conjecture here to make a read" its just a deeper analysis than scum will typically go for and not something intuitive to do. They are more likely to do something else than this. Rare to see a scum go this route for explaining a read and almost never for a "I can't make anything out of this".
310 no, u didn't advocate for policy lynch, ur not crazy yet.
352 I bet u think I am gonna call u town.

Okay in summary what we got here for Isis that can be summed up in one long paragraph instead of all those sentences above. First, the meta read in the early phase I think was interesting into his focus on Elements. In my mind when I think someone focuses in on a player like that its two possibilities for either deception or genuine. I leaned more in genuine because later it got backtracked. You could say Isis saw wasn't getting anything from it hence the deception part faded, I don't think so. I think he is looking at the player trying to sus-out things that should be town indicative not scum and not hve them be pushed in general not scum way. His reads are weak, and it shows throughout the gme and he has tried to push the gme in certain wys but also seems kind of relaxed with game state, maybe got used to it just not being a try-hard kind game. Isis is a person I don't expect to get frustrated with a game state not being to her liking. The reads on Norwee is strange for no push. The most interesting and I think most telling was response to votato and the looking aat time stamps and trying to figure out the authenticity of it, which is more telling to me that Isis is thinking in town sense than anything else.

I rate this player. With the Firebringer Grade:

To Townie To Fail.

Most importantly favorite color: Purple.

That was long. Okay next coming up soon.

You got my favorite color exactly right.
Seems like you switch to using "her" only when talking about my past games and I wonder if you have Osiris and Isis mixed up. Isis is the wife of Osiris, and she is the one who resurrected him when he died. Both are associated with death. 67% of the letters in "Osiris" are the letters in Isis so that's kinda confusing.

I am fine.

ABR why do you scumreading Deimos and Isis?

I have to start somewhere, don't I?

Yet it's not random nor is it gut.

Their posts feel weirded than others.

Indicating that someone is a loser at "one of these things is not like the other" without linking that to a distinct wincon is like, fake scumhunting right from the templates

Spoiler: Deimos

13 RVS
27 Asking for main. Kind of obvious Isis is alt.
272 Last paragraph was only interesting post. Highlights some analysis that shows a lot of assumptions/analysis within about a player that might be a bit too much.
276 Damn this heavy analytical players are going to drive me up a wall. The complexity of their mind is harder for me to grasp. They go a few hundred miles a minute within a few sentences. Nothing sticks out to me as saying he is just fabricating analysis, but to me the highlight was Elements. He came to a similar conclusion as me. And he doesn't have the experience or I don't think he does have the experience with Elements so this could be someone from a scum mindset who picked up on something and is highlighting it show he is thinking deeply. Like showing your sleeves while having a knife tucked in your shoe.
278 analytical speak. Not mindset indicative it just highlights again that analytical mind.
288 Posts like this always make me think. What is the purpose? What do you think you are conveying and how do you think this analysis is helping you? To me, the mindset is generally to see whose thought patterns can be manipulated and I think he is picking up Votato as a potential ally.
289 Newbie games aren't fun. They are like awkward and full of people talking like robots.
297 Surprised he brought up policy lynch. Analytical players generally don't push that.
320 Good reads here I actually think. He isn't shading HEM which I think would be the actual scum modus operandi, considering this is the opportunity to double down and force a ditotemy of Votato/him town.
325I would think he would pick up Isis read is based on meta if he was analyzing that more. Maybe not.
327 lol I guess he wasn't gonna push a policy. Or is this a lie?!? Probably not.
334 This post gave me the thought "hmm there is the players ego here". First time I seen something outside analysis, was kind of interesting to see it shed for a minute. Maybe a bit defensive not really in a bad way.
346 I don't think you would be dumb enough to pretend to have 4 scum leans in this game just because 4 scum.

Wow. All those posts. So much words. Well, I can easily say this is a analytical player. LOL. The worst kind of mafia player, we need to brun them at the stake tbh. Anyways, he is clearly going into depth on players post and picking them apart to think about players. Does that mean town? No. In this situation, I don't really think so. Sure some posts I can kind of see a townie mindset. Other posts, ehhh what you telling me some of this stuff for and wht does this help in either A) discussions to leading to you getting reads or B) do anything. The perfect example I guess was back in post 276. I can see this plyer looking into players the same way a predator looks for the easiest path to catching a prey. I don't think Deimos is looking for those easy mislynch bait, he is clearly looking to maneuver himself into the best altitude but not in a rushed manner because nothing in his posts is him screming "I AM TOWN" but I can def see positioning possibilities here the one post that kind of went against that was him and HEM which could just be not wanting to push that position too soon. Also this guy has L as his avatar. Should be clear sign of someones sense of ego.

Firebringer rating:

Scum Raccoon (they like to scavenge for good finds)

Favorite Color:

Turquoise

This was pretty resonant for me. Well, the parts about seeing a way everything he's done could very well be done from a scum perspective. Obviously I don't hate analytical players, since I am one, and I am more at true null than null-scum. Perhaps because he buttered me up.

[Isis]

FB notices that isis is online
isis defends by saying on phone, will post later, conveniently dropping phone wrong button slip
isis points out slip.

this doesnt really read as genuine to me

uh
what?

This is 3 lines of narration followed by a conclusion, which has an IioA flavor going for it, regardless of what moonlogic votato has for this later.
VOTE: votato seems like the strongest vote by now

[NorwegianboyEE]

Can someone sum up why Deimos is suddenly a wagon?

[Cycle Men]

as far as i can tell everyone has decided to sheep someone who moments ago was universally null/scum

[Green Crayons]

Wow. All those posts. So much words. Well, I can easily say this is a analytical player. LOL. The worst kind of mafia player, we need to brun them at the stake tbh. Anyways,

he is clearly going into depth on players post and picking them apart to think about players. Does that mean town? No. In this situation, I don't really think so. Sure some posts I can kind of see a townie mindset. Other posts, ehhh what you telling me some of this stuff for and wht does this help in either A) discussions to leading to you getting reads or B) do anything. The perfect example I guess was back in post 276. I can see this plyer looking into players the same way a predator looks for the easiest path to catching a prey. I don't think Deimos is looking for those easy mislynch bait, he is clearly looking to maneuver himself into the best altitude but not in a rushed manner because nothing in his posts is him screming "I AM TOWN" but I can def see positioning possibilities here the one post that kind of went against that was him and HEM which could just be not wanting to push that position too soon

. Also this guy has L as his avatar. Should be clear sign of someones sense of ego.

The actual meat of FB's read has merit and is worth a wagon.

[Green Crayons]

The tldr is that Deimos is doing plenty of analytical posts where he just makes observations or raises questions but never really does anything substantive with these lines of discussion to formulate reads.

FB hating on analytical posts is bad form and we should shame FB for it.

[Cycle Men]

does it have merit though? i feel like that's a really narrow, forced angle to look at things
when something forms a story way too conveniently i think its time to rethink

[Isis]

Cycle Men you need to think this game before you get to rethink

[Isis]

The tldr is that Deimos is doing plenty of analytical posts where he just makes observations or raises questions but never really does anything substantive with these lines of discussion to formulate reads.

So he's effectively emulating the hard part about scumhunting as scum, and not cashing in on the part where he gets to mislynch people? You really sound like you're bad-casing him.

UNVOTE:

Everyone is scummy this game.
Except Firebringer
I'll call him scum since he likes it though, you're a scumbringer

[Green Crayons]

So he's effectively emulating the hard part about scumhunting as scum, and not cashing in on the part where he gets to mislynch people? You really sound like you're bad-casing him.

You mean being active and looking productive without being productive? lol that's not town.

You mean being active and trying to make cases but being unable to make a good case against town? That aligns with an analytical scum who hasn't yet found a plausible bad case to push.

It's not a slam dunk but scum have pulled it before. Especially when they are replace-ins, they do long catch ups. Which conveniently he's been doing this entire game even though he isn't a replace in. Catching up without any delivery.