Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[Tanner]

If that VCA was faulty... why not try and fix it?

No response to my callout about you trying to paint me as a pocketer? No? Ok.

VCA is faulty because you arrive at the conclusion of "there must be scum in Prana/popo/Tanner" because the three of us were off-wagon. It wasn't an ordinary D1 mislynch wagon, it was a counterclaimed Miller. We can sit here for hours debating "scum were more likely to be on wagon because believing two Millers would be TMI-y" or "scum were more likely to be off wagon to not get their hands bloody" but it's all WIFOM.

Now, make no mistake, I agree with your conclusion that there's scum in Prana/popo/Tanner. I think that pool possibly has 2 out of 3 scum there. As I have been saying that for a while now. I just disagree how you got there.

from how fast i blazed through reading eve's iso though (given my mach-12 rate of reading given my astronomical IQ) it seemed like she had reads, though?

That's interesting too. Since the NK was the IC over the PR, would that mean the IC was killed for her reads?

She scumread Una, Prana and Riabi. popo's partner is probably 1 in those 3.

Eve was not necessarily killed for her reads, as at the time D2 ended, she had read about 1/3rd of the game. Wake was not killed because he was useless. Replacements however are dangerous because they offer a new perspective on the game. A replacement in the IC slot... yeah that's gonna die.

You are aware that there's most likely 3 scum in this game rather than 2?

Okay, can we lynch popo now? He's obviously avoiding this game, he's ellitelling, none of his progressions make sense, and he's refusing to comment on most of the game. Not to say I would be dissatisfied with a Prana lynch though.

[Persivul]

Okay, can we lynch popo now?

Prana and popo are both in my scum pool. Those are the leading wagons and the game has stalled, so good chance they're both scum.

VOTE: popopopopo

L-1

[Tanner]

Persi, how accurate is 644 right now?

[mavsfan41]

Between 520-525 a Luca wagon (now popo) formed. It was myself, Una, and then Tanner. There wasn’t much after that and it quickly disbanded with Tanner first going to Knightmare. Persivul first voted Red Panda followed by Tanner very shortly afterwards. Then the Red Panda wagon gained momentum leading to her lynch. Looking through these posts, I see Popopo’s join as Luca’s replacement. Popopo immediately announces a scumread of Knightmare. The one thing that does strike me as weird is the timeline for Popopopo’s Red Panda vote. (This is post 626.) Knightmare is suspected but Popopo switches to Red Panda (that read progression is fine and nothing super weird there) but I feel as though town!Popopo would have gone to Knightmare instead. Voting Red Panda at that point was jumping on the wagon. I feel as though had Tanner not moved from Knightmare to Red Panda, perhaps Popopo doesn’t vote Red Panda.

Also, if Popopo flips scum, I think that would all but clear Knightmare. Has Prana provided a read of Popopopo? I see in 524 they did express interest in the Luca wagon but didn’t vote and wanted to hear Luca’s response. This feels like punting on suspecting/voting a scum buddy. 849 Prana says 100% scum is either Tanner/Popo but hasn’t really voted. This is more fence sitting where Prana possibly doesn’t want to bus Popopo but faced with the alternative of voting Tanner doesn’t seem appealing. Prana has actually been super wishy-washy with Popopo. Prana mentions scum Popopo in a group but whenever he directly mentions Popopo the posts feel like walking on eggshells.

Can someone else check the interaction between Prana and Popopo and see if they’re reading it the same? I think a Popopo scum flip would not be great for Prana. There’s less between Popopo mentioning Prana, in fact he ignores him for the most part trying to push the Persivul scum theory more. Popopo does mention Prana but in a weird 854 post which reads to me like casually name dropping but trying too hard to not interact. Thoughts?

[Persivul]

Persi, how accurate is 644 right now?

Here's where I am:

Town - mavs, tanner
Lean Town - Knightmare
Scummy side of null - Unabomber, Riabi
Scum - George, popo, prana

I was more confident in that scum team a couple days ago, but Una and Riabi going quiet has me concerned.

You?

[mavsfan41]

Persi, how accurate is 644 right now?

Here's where I am:

Town - mavs, tanner
Lean Town - Knightmare
Scummy side of null - Unabomber, Riabi
Scum - George, popo, prana

I was more confident in that scum team a couple days ago, but Una and Riabi going quiet has me concerned.

You?

George in 857 jumped on the popopopo wagon at scum-speed rate for a mislynch. I cannot see a world where they’re scum buddies together. That was not a bus’ing scenario. If Popopopopo flips scum, I’m looking at Prana. If Popopopo flips town, George is where I’m going.

[PranaDevil]

849 Prana says 100% scum is either Tanner/Popo but hasn’t really voted. This is more fence sitting where Prana possibly doesn’t want to bus Popopo but faced with the alternative of voting Tanner doesn’t seem appealing. Prana has actually been super wishy-washy with Popopo. Prana mentions scum Popopo in a group but whenever he directly mentions Popopo the posts feel like walking on eggshells.

Seriously? You're going to try and paint me as scummy for that bullshit? If you were truly trying to check me, you would also have seen all of the following:

You or Popo I'm happy to lynch, but I need to read over both of your ISOs for it. I like your post about Popo, but want to read for myself later when I get a chance.

This was Tuesday 1:50pm for me. (I replied since to Persivul's wall and then refused to continue doing so to not be anti-town)

(As an aside, every Wednesday night is board game night, I usually help run a group, but with the quarantine we do it via Tabletop Simulator... and it's stressful as hell to manage, so afterwards I will just rest overnight most likely. Expect only posts related to current ongoing stuff to be posted between now and tomorrow).

This was Wednesday 11:18am, pointing out that I would be busy as hell all of yesterday, and actually, I've been busy today.

Next time you wish to lie about someone not voting one of two people, maybe don't do it with someone who has actually posted reasons in thread.

Anyone wanting to vote there based on nothing more than gut, prior to doing an ISO of both players, is scummy. Wanting to actually read both first is NOT scummy.

[mavsfan41]

My post was more about how you were super resistant to give any real read of Popopopo even though you’ve pointed out how you believe Popopopopo to be one of your scum suspects. And therefore I think if Popopopo is scum, you could very well be their scum partner. The lack of vote for the Tanner/Popopopo thing was to highlight how resistant you’ve been of a Popopo read. This I later emphasized with response to Persivul’s post about how I believe Popopopo and George can not possibly be scum together (honestly, Persivul’s post of linking them together is weird af imo and seems like a fabricated scum read of one of them). Just take a look at 857 from George. If they’re both scum, George is bus’ing his partner and there’s no reason for him to do that there.

[Tanner]

Persi, how accurate is 644 right now?

Here's where I am:

Town - mavs, tanner
Lean Town - Knightmare
Scummy side of null - Unabomber, Riabi
Scum - George, popo, prana

I was more confident in that scum team a couple days ago, but Una and Riabi going quiet has me concerned.

You?

I think I'm more or less in agreement with that list. I believe both you and mavs are Tow.

I still have a feeling George is mislynch bait. I wanted to maybe meta check him, but I haven't had the opportunity yet, and I don't think he's getting lynched today anyway so I can do that if I'm alive the following days.

I came into this day thinking that (assuming you/mavs Town) a Persivul lynch would be great for scum - mavs dies, and tomorrow is the most likely lylo of popo/Prana/Tanner/Una/Riabi/George - and I highly highly doubt Town ever wins that. And then popo and Prana started hardpushing there.

I've been calling popo suspicious for a while now, and his recent posts just further my scumread on him. His progression (?) on Prana makes no sense, his progression (?) on you makes no sense, his explanations are either horrible or he flat out refuse to provide them, and he's avoiding this game. And I would agree that popo's redflip is Not A Good Look on Prana.

I still think Una's townie, granted I've never played with him so I can't say for his meta, but his "tunnel" on me seems like a weird thing for scum to fake if that makes sense? Riabi I'm not feeling great on, and I'm very puzzled on what Ruby is doing here. Knightmare I haven't taken another look on yet, but I don't think I'll want to lynch him today anyway, so.

[Persivul]

These three have all managed to put up a lot of words without really saying much at all. Not the Una I'm used to.

I'm biding my time.
I actually have a good feeling about this game.

Scum would have absolutely no reason to bus here.
They have a solid foundation for a game full on 50/50 slots and weird claims.
Only thing that could confirm Persivul now is another roleclaim, and for all we know, even that could be scum fakeclaiming.

Scum wants to go into a LyLo where we are forced to choose a lynch between slots like Riabi (hasn't been around much at all), and a claimed Rolecop.
I'd prefer if we try to resolve two slots at once today.

There's another angle to this all, but I do not want to say it yet, as it might affect our remaining PR. (I think I have a good hunch)

I've been giving Una a pass based on these posts. I see them as hints that he's a PR. But, we haven't received any results, and he's gone quiet.

@mavs: I generally scum read individually. I'm not great with groupings. How do things look if you replace George with Una?

[mavsfan41]

@Persivul: I actually meant to add an addendum to that and how your reads and your presumed parings are two very different things which I didn’t acknowledge. Cause I still have a scum read on George but am voting Popopopo. My George read is very dependent on Popo’s flip. He either shoots to the top of my scum list or town-binned quicker than him jumping onto the Popopo wagon. So yea, if you have a George/Popopo pairing, that’s ridiculous. But if you have a scum read of both, that’s fair (which seems to be what your list is).

As for UnaBombaH, I honestly have no idea. Everyone was jumping on him he seemed like an easy lynch that I can’t see him being anything other than town. But his silence is quite alarming. But I don’t know where he’d rank in my list. Someone above the Riabi slot. He seems like a slightly more town version of what Riabi was.

[Tanner]

@Persi, I noticed that about 647 too, which is why I kept quiet about it and kept pushing elsewhere, coupled with the fact I wasn't exactly scumreading Una before that either.

[GeorgeBailey]

i agree with prana that persi is extremely sus. my scumread on prana from yesterday i think was more of a playstlye thing, as the setup spec has continued.

im still down to get on knightmare but i really dont see why we dont lynch persi today. he lied about his claim, and checking the miller with a 1 shot just seems dumb to me. (and not true)

Would scum try and go for a PR though? If Prana and popo are scum together, trying to vote out Persi seems like a gambit move. Even if still a 1-shot, doesn't seem like the safe scum move.

[Persivul]

Yeah, it made sense to give him some time, especially with no shortage of scummier candidates. But if popo flips red and mavs is correct (I'll review his argument later) that that rules out George, then I think we need to consider Una. I'll do some meta on him when I have time.

[Tanner]

i agree with prana that persi is extremely sus. my scumread on prana from yesterday i think was more of a playstlye thing, as the setup spec has continued.

im still down to get on knightmare but i really dont see why we dont lynch persi today. he lied about his claim, and checking the miller with a 1 shot just seems dumb to me. (and not true)

Would scum try and go for a PR though? If Prana and popo are scum together, trying to vote out Persi seems like a gambit move. Even if still a 1-shot, doesn't seem like the safe scum move.

I mean, first you're assuming scum is always going to be doing "safe" moves, which is just flat-out wrong. Second, have you seen my argument for where a town!Persi flip today leaves us tomorrow? Scum would be in a great position there.

[popopopopopopo]

sorry the last few days have been super busy for me speedrun week in wow classic horde tryna grief my guild OD but i will be ablea to give this game myt full attention at the weekend (i probably shoulda gone v/la last few days didnt realize how crazy shit would get)

[Persivul]

sorry the last few days have been super busy for me speedrun week in wow classic horde tryna grief my guild OD but i will be ablea to give this game myt full attention at the weekend (i probably shoulda gone v/la last few days didnt realize how crazy shit would get)

Hopefully this game won't be an issue for you much longer. One more vote.

[popopopopopopo]

im at l-1?

gonna claim then

tracker - luca tracked georgebailey night 1, he didnt go anywhere

i tracked persivul last night, he visited eve

maybe i shoulda claimed at the start of day but i wanted to keep my pr secret

[GeorgeBailey]

UNVOTE: popo

[GeorgeBailey]

wait, then Persivul isn't 1-shot?

[popopopopopopo]

no hes fucking scum and he killed eve

[popopopopopopo]

redpandas flipped fucked my reads

i figured id check persi to confirm him, myself and mavs and form a town bloc

imagine my surprise

[Knightmare491]

I think PD is unlikely to be scum then, Tanner too looks like he was being taken for a ride by scum! Persi rather than him hard TRing his buddy.

[Knightmare491]

Persi, how accurate is 644 right now?

Here's where I am:

Town - mavs, tanner
Lean Town - Knightmare
Scummy side of null - Unabomber, Riabi
Scum - George, popo, prana

I was more confident in that scum team a couple days ago, but Una and Riabi going quiet has me concerned.

You?

Would have to read interactions but Una and Riabi probably both scum. Could be GB too hm.

[Knightmare491]

wait, then Persivul isn't 1-shot?

This rang the alarm bells in my head.
Ofc he isn't why did you ask this dumb question.