Animals Upick [Game Over]

[April Ludgate]

The above is true on all three counts.

Hilarious

[April Ludgate]

I feel like I should be one of Votato’s top town reads, so that does give me pause.

But regardless, in my head he’s likely a day 2 lynch

[votato]

I feel like I should be one of Votato’s top town reads, so that does give me pause.

But regardless, in my head he’s likely a day 2 lynch

i do townread you, im just not yet sure if youre trying to buddy me

[April Ludgate]

buddies are gross

[votato]

buddies are gross

you love gross things

[farside22]

*pats unicorn*
Its okay. I feel pretty sure your scum based on a lot of your wishy washy responses. You are very lucky I'm not feeling doing my best not to tunnel you. But if that vote count turns to you, I will be there so fast.

may i ask where you just patted me?

On the horn.

[Blatant Scum]

My SRs are weaker than my TRs so far. the main reason i SR BS is that his ISO reads like hyperactive lurking. There are a whole lot of posts, but little analysis and little in the way of reads or analysis. Mostly he has been focused on me all day, which is OK i suppose, except that he seems to generally town-read me and believes my roleclaim.

I have seen town players play very similar to Dunn's playstyle.
Votato is no longer confirmable. I think he is an "optimal mislynch".

Is that due to how the wagons and game stalled, or simply your read on votato?

I think Votato's claim is towny. Yes, I read Penguin's ISO. I called him "optimal mislynch" because:
1) I wanted to be quoted
2) People still scumread him and he is basically unconfirmable.

he might not stand by the optimal mislynch part, but he still thinks my claim is towny. if so, why hasnt he explored any other possible scum.

I would love if today's lynch were in {jjh927, mastina, Conspire, chemist1422, Calvin and Hobbes, PenguinPower, Dunnstral, Dr Easy Bake, Creature}.

he's ok with lynching half the lobby?

BS: who are your other scum reads? why havent you put any effort into engaging them or pressuring them?

I am a bad scumreader, but a decent townreader. So I focus on townreading.

I am townreading this:

votato - claim
PenguinPower - claim; I will confirm him tonite
Clover Ebi - playstyle
Dunnstral - playstyle
Blatant Scum - heh
April Ludgate - claim

This are bad lynches for day 1:

farside22 - active
HoldenGolden - active, townleader, claim

*I am OK with lynching everything below this*

I am null with:

Birds and the Boys - I decided that the claim isn't enough to justify defending this D1
mastina
Conspire
chemist1422
Dr Easy Bake
Creature
jjh927

I am suspicious about:

Calvin and Hobbes - see my ISO
Bingle - he is off town meta I know. This read isn't as strong, because I haven't played enough games with him to be confident about it. In his town games, he would do D1 some kind of gambits or something to push conversation forward. He does nothing like that this game.

People I would like to lynch today:

Calvin and Hobbes
chemist1422
mastina

I am not including Bingle in the last group, because he is a good in mechanics. This decreases my desire to see him hung.

[votato]

BS: could you elaborate more on calvin & hobbes? i just read your iso and didnt see that much

[April Ludgate]

buddies are gross

you love gross things

I also love dead things

[votato]

*pats unicorn*
Its okay. I feel pretty sure your scum based on a lot of your wishy washy responses. You are very lucky I'm not feeling doing my best not to tunnel you. But if that vote count turns to you, I will be there so fast.

may i ask where you just patted me?

On the horn.

thats very ok with me

[HoldenGolden]

*pats unicorn*
Its okay. I feel pretty sure your scum based on a lot of your wishy washy responses.

You are very lucky I'm not feeling doing my best not to tunnel you. But if that vote count turns to you, I will be there so fast.

Votato is this banter from Farside normal given your playing experience with them?

[HoldenGolden]

Anyway, this is what I got right now

jj town
conspire scum
April lean town
Penguin lean town
clover lean scum
Blatant Scum scum
votaytoh lean scum
Calvin lean town, failed mason claim imo, but not scum indicative necessarily.

Before this post he had mostly filler posting that wasn't really anything to blink at. You could see traces of what you'd expect but this list just doesn't seem genuine to me? With no reasoning I don't see how he got this list. I can't really prove much on this because he doesn't give any reasons that I can dig into, so it's more gut.

if ur not voting chemist ur just helping the scum team.

which is fine for holden but the rest of you know better.

VOTE: chemist

~fire

If I missed it, my bad, but I don't see where you ACTUALLY GIVE A DAMN REASON BEHIND THIS!

This feels like a strong overreaction

Lol wait did I actually hammer BS?

I think he's playing dumb with this post. It seems pretty forced. Like he's trying to have a casual air in his posting.

You can be moved to the town pool

Can you give a description of how he was when you played with him last? Others were describing his town style as lolcapping, so I had read the quoted overreaction more like a continuation of that.

(It might be that I read his posts in his pfp's voice)

[PenguinPower]

Lol...fotahdo is scum

Also...fotahdo what is your meta opinion on this slot....

[HoldenGolden]

HoldenGolden - active, townleader,

claim(s)

fixed it

Where am I being a townleader outside of the plan discussion? Most of my posts has been me prodding for infomation rather than leading the town.

[HoldenGolden]

I have some stronger town reads. My top scum reads are PP (waiting for confirmation), dunn, and BS. Still a whole lot of people I'm having trouble figuring out. jjh and birds are my strongest townreads.

Oh yeah
UNVOTE: VOTE: Votato

You aren't allowed to not take me up on my offer to explain the PP read awhile ago just to pick it back up pages later and assimilate my reasoning on the slot as your own.

[Blatant Scum]

BS: could you elaborate more on calvin & hobbes? i just read your iso and didnt see that much

Calvin has 0 content.
Hobbes has that "add to conversation without actually adding to conversation" post (654)

[votato]

I have some stronger town reads. My top scum reads are PP (waiting for confirmation), dunn, and BS. Still a whole lot of people I'm having trouble figuring out. jjh and birds are my strongest townreads.

Oh yeah
UNVOTE: VOTE: Votato

You aren't allowed to not take me up on my offer to explain the PP read awhile ago just to pick it back up pages later and assimilate my reasoning on the slot as your own.

wait what? do you see the several posts i made explaining the PP read? you dont see very early in my iso the back and forth between myself and PP? i feel like this is pretty silly misrep.

*pats unicorn*
Its okay. I feel pretty sure your scum based on a lot of your wishy washy responses.

You are very lucky I'm not feeling doing my best not to tunnel you. But if that vote count turns to you, I will be there so fast.

Votato is this banter from Farside normal given your playing experience with them?

its limited experience, but yeah sure.

[HoldenGolden]

i've repeatedly said i think its a bit early to have solid reads on people. But that said, I don't think the people asking for my reads really care about the reads, and are using them to test me. Here are some thoughts anyway.

PP: posting has been a bit strange. Some of the reactions seem forced, and he seems too eager to put pressure on me/lynch me.

conspire: i think this is where the wagon came from, and while I definitely dont townread conspire the vote wasnt opportunistic, so even if scum, this isnt the scum I'm looking for.
farside: townread her. she seems a bit fence-sitty on the wagon, both defending and attacking me, but i think its her trying to keep an open mind and remain objective. Because of our history, i townread her for that, although i suppose it could just as easily be that she is pretending to keep an open mind as scum.
april: similar to farside, but without any personal history. She gets townpoints for taking the time to read and understand my posts rather than just assume everything questionable is scummy.
dunnstral: this is probably the scummiest. first post in thread: puts someone at L-1. Second post in thread: unvotes, because he isnt "feeling this lynch". I'd say this is a good option for a wagon.
BS: we've been over this previously. the lack of contribution yet wanting to push for claims seems not town-aligned, but other people who know him better seem not to think much of it.
mastina: null
holden: seems the most opportunistic. was a late-comer to the wagon, and suddenly became very aggressive. Not sure how to interpret that alignment-wise.
im sure im missing some people here, but i went back through quite a lot of pages looking for votes.

Am I the only one who doesnt think much of Dr. Easy Bake's catch-up?

This is the only post I found prior to me and Pingu getting into our tussle where you picked up the mod confirmed stuff. I asked you shortly after this came out to expand on your PP and me reads since they are implying something but didn't actually call it scum/town (and gave you free range to use whatever posts and not just those pertaining to your wagon). If I am going off this alone, then I am to assume that you are scum leaning PP for forced reactions and the tunneling. When PP did it later with JJ, I would expect you to voice something there since at that time the mod confirmation had seemingly no impact on your read (if it did, please explain).

You didn't, and it laid silent till the tussle where it resurfaced and took on aspects of my discussion with him (modconfirm ability). That's why I have an issue with it. It clearly peaked your interest enough to describe it as strange, but you didn't revisit it on your own. Rather, it took me bringing up the points for you. Its 12 AM, so if I missed something, than feel free to point me to the right direction.

While I'm here talking to you. Can you explain your bird townread? Last instance I saw was you talking about how they got AI out of chemist's slot. Can you describe what lead you to consider them town?

[April Ludgate]

Votato wagon is for tomorrow.

Have some damn patience.

[HoldenGolden]

also, it seems really strange to include a role that has the capacity to be mod-confirmed day 1, and has incentive do to it so easily that when theres even the slightest amount of pressure, with no wagon, the player claims.

I will concede that, rereading, this point with pingu is your own. Though my issue of me having to spark your motivation to consider a player you had what I assumed to be a scum lean without declaring a scum lean is still there.

[HoldenGolden]

Votato wagon is for tomorrow.

Have some damn patience.

I am a simple donkey. I see a reason to pressure him -> I pressure him.

I'm extracting as much info as I can out of him, so that if he is town, I might find a reason not to lynch him tomorrow in the case I am wrong. If I am correct and he is scum, we have that much more info to go off of when he flips red.

Its not about patience; it's about time management. If Dunn was here, I would grill him too since my meta point no longer stands true enough to let him exist in the lurker pool.

[HoldenGolden]

Votato wagon is for tomorrow.

Have some damn patience.

Forever scum <3

[votato]

also, it seems really strange to include a role that has the capacity to be mod-confirmed day 1, and has incentive do to it so easily that when theres even the slightest amount of pressure, with no wagon, the player claims.

I will concede that, rereading, this point with pingu is your own. Though my issue of me having to spark your motivation to consider a player you had what I assumed to be a scum lean without declaring a scum lean is still there.

i think if you read through my ISO you'll find more than just the one interaction with PP. it takes more than one interaction to convince someone to tunnel you this hard. I dunno, i guess i should have been more explicit? Im wary of pressuring people who are pressuring me, because in my experience it leads to counterproductive catfights. and im really not very catty. as it turns out though, i was right not to apply more pressure to PP. the pressure already applied led to a pretty serious tunnel. For a while i was really wary of saying anything since everything i said got scumread, and it seemed like the universal consensus was that im scum. I poked a couple of hornet's nests and lost my confidence. I think i have a slightly better feel for the game now, although I'm still struggling to read a lot of people, since people like bingle and creature seem to be more or less unreadable and there are a bunch of inactives. And then theres someone like HG who i keep going back and forth on.

the birds read is a metaread based on firebringer. i realize that the hydra has four heads, but about half the posts are his, and the rest seem to come from a similar place. they also seem to see the game the same way i do, for the most part.

moonlogic? probably.

[Bingle]

Where did it come from?

My townreads. I'm not including myself because honestly half of this playerlist would doubt I was town if the mod confirmed it. Also, Penguin is half of this player list now.

what does that mean? are you implying you can also be confirmed town? are you implying that we shouldnt trust penguin even if penguin is confirmed?

I cannot be confirmed town. My role has nothing other than miller which would make my alignment clear, and miller makes cop results useless. That means unless we lynch scum repeatedly and end the game early, I will almost certainly die at some point. The sole exception to this is if a rolecop who can hit either natural or unnatural animals (I count as both for action resolution) targets me and we assume that miller can’t be scum, which isn’t a safe assumption in a theme game.

Penguin has a high level of paranoia about scum me because he was in my best scum game of recent memory where I convinced copPenguin that he had a false innocent result in order to win the game. Since then, even if there is absolutely no reason that anyone should scumread me, penguin scumreads me.

Also lmao at BS trying to meta read me. Even the best players on site have shit records when it comes to accurately reading me, especially when they think meta helps.

[HoldenGolden]

also, it seems really strange to include a role that has the capacity to be mod-confirmed day 1, and has incentive do to it so easily that when theres even the slightest amount of pressure, with no wagon, the player claims.

I will concede that, rereading, this point with pingu is your own. Though my issue of me having to spark your motivation to consider a player you had what I assumed to be a scum lean without declaring a scum lean is still there.

i think if you read through my ISO you'll find more than just the one interaction with PP. it takes more than one interaction to convince someone to tunnel you this hard. I dunno, i guess i should have been more explicit? Im wary of pressuring people who are pressuring me, because in my experience it leads to counterproductive catfights. and im really not very catty. as it turns out though, i was right not to apply more pressure to PP. the pressure already applied led to a pretty serious tunnel. For a while i was really wary of saying anything since everything i said got scumread, and it seemed like the universal consensus was that im scum. I poked a couple of hornet's nests and lost my confidence. I think i have a slightly better feel for the game now, although I'm still struggling to read a lot of people, since people like bingle and creature seem to be more or less unreadable and there are a bunch of inactives. And then theres someone like HG who i keep going back and forth on.

the birds read is a metaread based on firebringer. i realize that the hydra has four heads, but about half the posts are his, and the rest seem to come from a similar place. they also seem to see the game the same way i do, for the most part.

moonlogic? probably.

I do see the interactions prior to the reads list and understand what lead to the read post. That's part I understand. Its the gap between that and the PP tussle a few pages ago that i'm confused about.

I understand; I know not everyone handles stress of being scum read the same and townies can become passive in the face of it. That's my main goal with you rn. Seeing if you are genuinely fizzled out town or passive frailing scum. Although I find a major issue with the PP read and a lot of your play, I did see a small glimpse of towniess in that you wanted to fight between me and him to end. That's why I want to get more out of you now because I see a reason to doubt myself.

It's clear my approach isn't working, so let me offer a counter measure:
UNVOTE:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume for a moment I am wrong. I'm fine with the meta read rational with bird and the explanation given for the more lurking players. Do you feel comfortable attempting to articulate your view on me? I care less about rather its a scum, town, or somewhere inbetween. I want to see your PoV and logic of what you find scummy and town, and I think from what you said your rational on me would help sort you. If not, then can you talk about who else you are conflicted that you keep going back and forth on?