Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[UnaBombaH]

I think PD is unlikely to be scum then, Tanner too looks like he was being taken for a ride by scum! Persi rather than him hard TRing his buddy.

Don't go this deep into it yet.
I believe the scumteam has been going for a gambit-y playstyle the whole game, so assuming they'd distance at all in a game like this might be a dangerous thought.

[UnaBombaH]

Because i'm trying to imagine a scenario where Persivul is town and he visits Eve.

VOTE: Persivul

DUDE, he claimed rolecop, you think Town rolecop visits an IC?

This is actually something worth pondering about.

DO NOT VOTE PERSIVUL TO THE ROPE YET.

[UnaBombaH]

Why the fuck would a claimed role cop make the night kill? Seems like obvious tracker bait. If Perisvul is scum, weird decision.

Intent to vote Persivul but don’t want a self-hammer in this situation.

Prana would be cleared (my bad Prana...).

THIS.
Exactly this.
Think about it folks - if Persivul were to be a scum!RoleCop, he would never check OR kill Eve here.
They already knew Eves role since it was globally revealed, and they'd want a result from Persivul.
So someone else would've done the killing anyway since Eve was the target.

[UnaBombaH]

Prana was on Percivul day 1. And day 2. In fact, the day 1 push I find hard to believe would be SvS in that situation.

You make a GREAT point about why a townie role would be targeting the IC. The only thing I could possibly imagine is a watcher/voyeur (the one where you see who visited that person during the night) on Eve. And that would make sense as Eve was the most likely to be targeted.

Even with this being the case and Eve being dead, if Popopopo is the tracker and targeted Percivul, Percivul would’ve seen who targeted Eve and therefore should be pushing that person as scum and would’ve likely claimed in that scenario.

No way town!Percivul targeted Eve last night and is now pushing Popopopo if Popopo’s telling the truth about being the tracker.

If mavs isn't town here, I'm not sure I can ever play Mafia on this site again.

[Knightmare491]

Persivul could just be goon, we don't know if he actually is a role cop. As to why he could be doing the kill, because his partners are scummier than him and maybe they were expecting TPRs to target them?

[popopopopopopo]

it was a big time gambit from scum persivul to ride his claim and "confirmed" status from the miller check to victory.

think about it. he "checks" mavsfan to try confirm himself. says mavsfan is a miller. mavsfan is ofcourse a miller, he had claimed in thread, scum persivul knows he's telling the truth. then the next day persi claims 1 shot so he doesn't have to check anyone and tell us what their role is.

because he can't find out anyone else's role because he's not a rolecop

it makes sense that he made the kill. he fake claimed outta nowhere on day 2 as a gambit play, im sure his scum buddies want little to do with him and were like "you've made this fake claim you're stuck with it, theres a million ways you could be caught in a lie now, make the kill, we need to stay below the radar." at least thats what i'd do in this situation.


and again, i tracked persivul to the dead IC. i can't think of an explanation other than the most obvious one. he is scum and killed her.

[UnaBombaH]

OK, so the thing I was going to try and tackle anyway, was the fact that Persivul claimed RoleCop before anyone else claimed anything. (obv. Millers aside)
The only ways I could see him making that bold of a move

as scum

:

1)

The scumteam had information about this game absolutely not having a RoleCop. (meaning there wouldn't be a counterclaim)
This way Persivul could've "dared" to claim RoleCop and "solidify" it by confirming mavs as town to the rest of us.
Scum would be able to do it even without checking mavs since they'd know he is town, and town!mavs would've had no reason to counterclaim Drew D1.
If scum knew there'd be no Rolecop in the game, they would most definitely go for a gambit involving that role.

2)

Persivul is in fact a scum!RoleCop, and was willing to go 1on1 with someone counterclaiming him.
This would also make more sense AFTER scumteam had realized there was in fact two Millers in the setup.
Something like "there are two Millers, so obviously there can be two RC's too."

This point has the problem of popopopos claimed result from N2 though.

No matter if scum!Rolecop-Persivul is 1-shot or not, I do not see a world where they'd use their only shot on mavs, AND THEN DO THE KILL N2.
They'd risk all the Trackers and Voyeurs in the world who'd most likely be targeting

EITHER THE CLAIMED ROLECOP OR THE CONFIRMED IC.

After "getting away with it" the day before, you really think the scumteam would risk their out-in-the-open frontline, the one doing a fakeclaim-gambit?
And no, it wouldn't be "WIFOM" - it would simply be stupid IMO.

If neither of the above is true, I do not see how/why scum!Persivul would decide to put themself in the front.
They'd know their claim gives them no protection in the long run, and especially now since they have claimed a 1-shot role.
And they would've risked being counterclaimed straight away, as early as D2.
Yet again, NOT KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT THE SETUP AND ROLES YET?
Hell, I stand by my assessment that a RoleCop in itself makes sense in a setup where there'd be two Millers.
Just not sure whether it should be only 1-shot..

[UnaBombaH]

BTW, IF THERE'S A COUNTERCLAIM TO POPOPOPOPPOPO, I DO NOT THINK YOU SHOULD OUT YOURSELF HERE.

There's a good case for popopopopo still being todays lynch over Persivul, and I want to hear from him/mavs before I say why.

[UnaBombaH]

Persivul could just be goon, we don't know if he actually is a role cop. As to why he could be doing the kill, because his partners are scummier than him and maybe they were expecting TPRs to target them?

His buddies scummier than him?
I do not see your PoV here.
If Persivul were to commit to a fakeclaim-gambit D2, no matter if he was "flying solo" or not, he would still never make the kill N2 if the target was going to be the IC.
His teammates would make the kill, because Persivul is the only one taking the "heat" right now.
And he DEFINITELY wouldn't commit the kill and then enter this gameday by claiming a 1-shot modifier.
He would've claimed odd-night or some other "gate" for his role, and not moved last night.
Or if he absolutely had to do the kill, he would've claimed "Jack of All Trades"-type of thing, where he had a Doc-shot as well.

Scum!Persivul making the gambit the way he has done so far, would be aiming for a LyLo where his towncred comes from mavs doing all the heavy lifting in townspewing for him.
His gambit wouldn't end D3 simply because someone saw him killing the IC.
So if Persivul is scum here, I do not see a world where their teammates are by any means "easy to spot" or viewed as scummier than him.

[UnaBombaH]

because he can't find out anyone else's role because he's not a rolecop

This might turn out to be ironic for you if you're actually the scum here.

[Tanner]

So, uhh... That happened.

UNVOTE:

I don't think I have anything to add until we hear from Persi. Though I'm still thinking about my "Persi/mavs must be of the same alignment" claim. We'll see I guess.

[Persivul]

i tracked persivul last night, he visited eve

Scum claim. I went nowhere last night. I can't.

[Persivul]

wait, then Persivul isn't 1-shot?

This rang the alarm bells in my head.
Ofc he isn't why did you ask this dumb question.

Ofc I'm not? Why is that?

[Persivul]

..and I'm afraid this seems like you are digging at my feet - just in case I need to be mislynched tomorrow.
If you are town here, you should realize where your own claim puts you in the grand scheme of things.
You'd also be at least a little worried of being NK'd, no? Yet you seem quite confident that you will wake up to D4..

That makes no sense. Yes, I could be NK'd. That's why I wasn't comfortable waiting until tomorrow to bring it up.

[Persivul]

Yeah, it made sense to give him some time, especially with no shortage of scummier candidates. But if popo flips red and mavs is correct (I'll review his argument later) that that rules out George, then I think we need to consider Una. I'll do some meta on him when I have time.

..and I'm afraid this seems like you are digging at my feet - just in case I need to be mislynched tomorrow.
If you are town here, you should realize where your own claim puts you in the grand scheme of things.

You'd also be at least a little worried of being NK'd, no?

Yet you seem quite confident that you will wake up to D4..

And since we are outing suspicions about PRs - I thought Persivul might've actually been a 2-shot / odd-night RoleCop at the start of the day.
With that 1-shot claim they have effectively made it so that we can't expect any more results from them, and

they are also "protected" from a nightkill

simply because their result means nothing unless they die.
They claim to have confirmed a role that does nothing, and could potentially be just a scum hiding under a role that can't be confirmed.
Town!RoleCop would've said that to make sure they get a result tonight, but somehow I do not see that in their gameplay right now.

I'll have to do some stream of consciousness to sort this whole thing for myself.

Changing your position literally from one post to the next.

I don't like the way you've responded to this. I think town would have simply shrugged it off. Also, Tanner said he likewise spotted got the same from it. But, you don't respond at all to him - only to the guy with a wagon.

[Persivul]

THIS.
Exactly this.
Think about it folks - if Persivul were to be a scum!RoleCop, he would never check OR kill Eve here.
They already knew Eves role since it was globally revealed, and they'd want a result from Persivul.
So someone else would've done the killing anyway since Eve was the target.

Bingo

[Persivul]

it was a big time gambit from scum persivul to ride his claim and "confirmed" status from the miller check to victory.

think about it. he "checks" mavsfan to try confirm himself. says mavsfan is a miller. mavsfan is ofcourse a miller, he had claimed in thread, scum persivul knows he's telling the truth. then the next day persi claims 1 shot so he doesn't have to check anyone and tell us what their role is.

because he can't find out anyone else's role because he's not a rolecop

it makes sense that he made the kill. he fake claimed outta nowhere on day 2 as a gambit play, im sure his scum buddies want little to do with him and were like "you've made this fake claim you're stuck with it, theres a million ways you could be caught in a lie now, make the kill, we need to stay below the radar." at least thats what i'd do in this situation.


and again, i tracked persivul to the dead IC. i can't think of an explanation other than the most obvious one. he is scum and killed her.

If your claim is true, then you have a hared guilty on me.

With a hard guilty on me, surely you've been watching me to see who I was and wasn't pushing.

So...how did you get to L-1 without noticing?

Who do you have as the scum team?

[Persivul]

So, uhh... That happened.

UNVOTE:

I don't think I have anything to add until we hear from Persi. Though I'm still thinking about my "Persi/mavs must be of the same alignment" claim. We'll see I guess.

It's a hail mary from scum. popo's play makes no sense today with a guilty in hand. I'm surprised it's been taken seriously at all.

Some good may come out of it. MAVS - George quickly and without question accepted the popo claim. If I'm town, are you still convinced they can't be scum together?

[Persivul]

But he changed it to one shot. Usually one shot is paired with other roles.

Since when?

[UnaBombaH]

I don't like the way you've responded to this. I think town would have simply shrugged it off. Also, Tanner said he likewise spotted got the same from it. But, you don't respond at all to him - only to the guy with a wagon.

Because you are a claimed PR - he is not.
My reasoning for why I have handled Tanner the way I have comes alive tomorrow if we are both still alive.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Persivul

Why did you hop on this so easily?

[Persivul]

Because you are a claimed PR - he is not.
My reasoning for why I have handled Tanner the way I have comes alive tomorrow if we are both still alive.

More tomorrow? It's getting old. If you have something to say, just say it. As you note, there's no guarantee you're still alive to say it tomorrow.

[Tanner]

Well, now I'm curious. Also, will you say what 932's about now that Persi has showed up?

[Persivul]

sorry the last few days have been super busy for me speedrun week in wow classic horde tryna grief my guild OD but i will be ablea to give this game myt full attention at the weekend (i probably shoulda gone v/la last few days didnt realize how crazy shit would get)

Does this post come from someone with a guilty in hand?

[Persivul]

...Why do you people insist on making this game more complicated than it really is?

farside was shot. She suspected Panda/Luca/Persi. Both Panda's and Luca's slots are horrible (I'd argue Panda's more so than Luca, but ya know). We swing there. Persi and mavs are of the same alignment, they're de facto cleared Town, and if (and that's a really really big if) they're scum,

it will be obvious later once actual Town PRs start coming to light.

I'm hesitant on Luca/Panda and I don't think she was killed for her scum reads. She seemed like a really obvTown player that would have easily been taken to LyLo. I think Scum thought she was an easy target to take out. But NKA is tricky because you have to know the mind behind the kills too. Some people take out Strong Townies they don't want to compete with late game, some take out people shit tunneling them.

^George protects Luca/popo by saying that farside wasn't killed for her scum reads.

VOTE: popo

The fact that Farside was NK'd n1 over an IC has to be a tell.

The only alive players from her scumreads are Persi and Luca/popo.

^popo lynch looks inevitable. George wants to bus but has no progression at all (this is his first mention of popo). Suddenly, farside was killed for her scum reads.