Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[Persivul]

popo really should have just taken the noose. If so I wouldn't have ISO'd George. That contradiction on the farside kill is pretty damning.

[Tanner]

I think? we lynch popo today? Even if popo is Town, we wouldn't be able to get any more results from him since he'd get shot anyway. So either he flips scum, which is great, or we lynch Persi>mavs (because I still believe they have to be the same alignment).

pedit: I don't think that's such an elaborate thought, though... what do you mean by saving the situation?

[Persivul]

If we lynch popopopo today, we basically force scum to kill Persivul/mavs, and we still have one rather-easy-to-believe townslot left. (as in - believe Persivul = scum-popopopo).

I hadn't thought of that.

Unless you think me/popo is scum theater

, then lynching popo today conftowns me, which in turn conftowns mavs.

My thoughts are in bold. Can't believe you brought it up yourself in a moment like this..

Why wouldn't I bring it up? I know it isn't true.

[mavsfan41]

I think? we lynch popo today? Even if popo is Town, we wouldn't be able to get any more results from him since he'd get shot anyway. So either he flips scum, which is great, or we lynch Persi>mavs (because I still believe they have to be the same alignment).

pedit: I don't think that's such an elaborate thought, though... what do you mean by saving the situation?

Not a chance. If I were doctor I’d 100% protect Popopopo here (if Persivul flips scum). Persivul’s not a power role anymore. Picking a lynch between the two, town has more to lose by lynching a tracker than lynching a 1x Rolecop who already used their ability.

[UnaBombaH]

Not a chance. If I were doctor I’d 100% protect Popopopo here (if Persivul flips scum). Persivul’s not a power role anymore. Picking a lynch between the two, town has more to lose by lynching a tracker than lynching a 1x Rolecop who already used their ability.

This.

[Tanner]

Our IC's dead. There either isn't a doc or they're doing a terrible job.

[mavsfan41]

The IC died presumably because they targeted Persivul after Persivul claimed role cop (but before claiming 1x role cop).

[Persivul]

I think? we lynch popo today? Even if popo is Town, we wouldn't be able to get any more results from him since he'd get shot anyway. So either he flips scum, which is great, or we lynch Persi>mavs (because I still believe they have to be the same alignment).

pedit: I don't think that's such an elaborate thought, though... what do you mean by saving the situation?

Not a chance. If I were doctor I’d 100% protect Popopopo here (if Persivul flips scum). Persivul’s not a power role anymore. Picking a lynch between the two, town has more to lose by lynching a tracker than lynching a 1x Rolecop who already used their ability.

So...ignore all the evidence which got the claimant to L-1 in the first place, because they made an eleventh-hour claim which fits a scum game plan perfectly?

I think we win anyway if I'm lynched, but this is really asinine.

Assuming I'm town and popo's scum, what do you think about my points on George?

[mavsfan41]

I honestly have NO IDEA about George atm. I think he makes more sense as scum if you flip scum adhering to the Turbobus. You pushing him now I think would clear him if you flip scum though, I’m not sure, but wandering townie. Hell, I’ve been on BOTH wagons that mislynched townies. So him voting Popopopo then voting you is sorta what I’m doing.

Popopo did vote you earlier in their first post today which would suggest they had a guilty on you. But to acknowledge UnaBombaH’s 969, was a weak push with a hard guilty on someone.

I’m telling you, I think your post about the potential of Popopop being a scum tracker is absolutely insane. For you to believe that, you’d be saying that Popopopo (as scum tracker) tracked George N1 and you believe that but then to go and claim you didn’t go anywhere and therefore Popopopo is lying about tracking you N2 in an effort to frame you is just.... weird. What I’d picture you’d be saying is that Popopopopo is a liar who isn’t a tracker of any kind cause if they were and tracked me, they would see I didn’t go anywhere. But to say they’re scum tracker is saying they did indeed track George BUT ALSO that they tracked someone who isn’t you N2. I think either Popopopopo is town who tracked you OR is scum lying about being a tracker to frame you. There is no possibility of scum tracker telling the truth about N1 but lying about N2.

[mavsfan41]

Also, in that scum tracker scenario with the whole telling the truth about George but lying about you would clear George as there’s no reason scum tracker would actually track their scum buddy George.

[GeorgeBailey]

The only way I can see if popo is scum is if they somehow jailed/tracked/rolecopped me. I don't see scum randomly saying someone didn't go anywhere n1 without mechanical evidence.

[Tanner]

VOTE: popo

George, your point about getting jailed makes no sense.

[Persivul]

I honestly have NO IDEA about George atm. I think he makes more sense as scum if you flip scum adhering to the Turbobus.

What Turbobus? As Tanner pointed out and I confirmed:
- George was not posting. I pressured him on that. So, he felt the need to come in and vote.
- When he came in, there were three 2-person wagons. If he's scum with popo and prana, then he had these choices:
--vote popo
--vote prana
--join both popo and prana on me, knowing I'd flip green
--start a new vanity wagon

None of those are great choices for him, but neither prana nor popo would have been a turbobus form his POV at that point.

I’m telling you, I think your post about the potential of Popopop being a scum tracker is absolutely insane. For you to believe that,

I don't

believe

it, but it was only fair to point out that my previous post making an absolute connection between scum!popo and scum!george wasn't actually absolute.

What I’d picture you’d be saying is that Popopopopo is a liar who isn’t a tracker of any kind cause if they were and tracked me, they would see I didn’t go anywhere.

I did say he was lying, unequivocally, in my first post after popo's claim. 936 But no matter how unlikely, I can only say his reported result was fake. Technically he could be a scum tracker. Real PRs can give fake results.

[mavsfan41]

I think what George is saying is that for Popopopo to fake claim tracker and fabricating Night results but being 100% sure George wouldn’t call BS is to make sure George didn’t visit anyone via jailing him.

[Tanner]

I think what George is saying is that for Popopopo to fake claim tracker and fabricating Night results but being 100% sure George wouldn’t call BS is to make sure George didn’t visit anyone via jailing him.

And you know the issue with that? George wouldn't know he was jailed. (Maybe if he was an investigative, he'd get no result, but he still couldn't know he was specifically jailed.) So even if George was being jailed by scum (and thus obviously going nowhere), PR!George would've still called bullshit on that.

[mavsfan41]

Or, George has no night ability and didn’t go anywhere or didn’t chose to go anywhere. So George knows he didn’t go anywhere but scum claiming tracker wouldn’t know that. So in order be guessing on George’s night action of not going anywhere AND being right about them, they’d hafta jail George.

Even if George didn’t know he was jailed, what his post is saying is that Popopo is correct and that George didn’t go anywhere N1. For scum to KNOW he didn’t go anywhere, they’d have to jail him or George would be calling BS on Popopopo which he is not.

[Knightmare491]

Scum JK is equal to RB only. With the amount of neg utility we have there is no way scum have an RB.

[Knightmare491]

We can massclaim to solve this, protectives claim VT cause there's no point outing those roles. Town must have some investigative power and I'm not gonna lynch an un CCed tracker.

[Tanner]

Don't you get that scum fakeclaiming a result doesn't actually have to be right about it? Imagine a scenario where popo is scum, and he said George didn't go anywhere because scum has a jailkeeper and they jailkept George. Let's say George is a doc and tried to heal someone (who wasn't attacked) on n1.

George still would've called bullshit on that because he'd know he went somewhere. It wouldn't matter that the *actual* result was correct. It would've been incorrect to George. Because George wouldn't have been told he was blocked.

I highly doubt this matters anyway, but you were missing my point.

Knightmare, what do you think about the Persi/popo situation?

pedit: i mean then the whole point of a massclaim gets kinda fucked if the protectives don't out
also the Tracker is CCed by Persivul claiming he hasn't gone anywhere

[Persivul]

You'd think we would have learned from the vig discussion that the mere mention of a role doesn't mean that role's in the game.

[Knightmare491]

pedit: i mean then the whole point of a massclaim gets kinda fucked if the protectives don't out
also the Tracker is CCed by Persivul claiming he hasn't gone anywhere

ofc he'd say that lol
I meant in terms of balance. You realise that town should have some investigative power right? and 1 shot RC isn't enough with so much negative utility? So if there is no other investigative PR the popo has to be telling the truth.

[Knightmare491]

then*

[Tanner]

You'd think we would have learned from the vig discussion that the mere mention of a role doesn't mean that role's in the game.

Agreed, but it was bugging me.

You realise that town should have some investigative power right?

No. Nothing guarantees there's a single investigative role in this game.

[Knightmare491]

Look at this read progression, Persivul was a TR, why would popo push Persivul suddenly on the next day? Esp since they've got me and Prana in the scumpool too, PD is a very easy push to make today. Why go after Persivul?

townreads - persi, mavs, GB, Una (im tired i will try and work out a few more townreads tomorrow)

scumreads - redpanda, prana, knight (in that order)

VOTE: Prana

Town encryptor, but not neighbor or neighborizer, is really weird.

Full disclosure: I was 1X. I withheld that yesterday to see if scum would target me N2. Prana's setup attempt largely negated that. Still, scum probably don't have something obvious like strongman.

very convenient to be a 1 shot.

persivuls actions make a lot of sense coming from scum. mavsfan had already claimed miller in thread and i think the consensus was that he was telling the truth. even with the rolecop inspect. persivul gets to get big town cred like he's a pr but avoids having to be accountable for any night actions moving forward, avoids having to give results THAT CAN EASILY BE DISPROVED. Just imagine for one second that persivul IS scum, of course he would claim 1 shot today because he cant confirm his role any longer because no1 else has outed there role in thread.

vote:persivul

im still scum reading nightmare.

persivul lied yesterday and i believe he is still not being truthful with us.

[Knightmare491]

No. Nothing guarantees there's a single investigative role in this game.

I suggest you look at completed mini normals.