Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[Knightmare491]

I get your point. Let's mass claim tho

[Tanner]

So do you think me/Persi can be T/T?

[Persivul]

Food for thought: assume popopopo is scum fakeclaiming - how did they know georgebailey didn't go anywhere N1?

Hold it - scum tracker is a thing too, so no, the George association isn't a hard scum point. But George is scum nonetheless.

Thinking this through:

1. If popo flips scum tracker, we can't make conclusions from that on George's alignment

2.

If popo flips scum but not tracker, than George is almost certainly scum

, as popo could have just claimed a result on a dead person for N1.

Is that correct?

[Knightmare491]

@knightmare please stop ignoring this thank you.

Comment on this?

My issue there is that Knight can apparently see me as Town being fooled by scum!you, but can't see me as Town genuinely believing Town!you, when from Town!me's PoV, there's no visible difference between the two.

I don't know, like I said I forgot about the 2 miller requiring to confirm one thing. Considering that it makes sense that you believe persivul over popo as town.

[mavsfan41]

@Tanner: If Persivul is scum, he knows I’m town and therefore I’m not fake claiming miller. So I could see why he would confirm miller without actually role copping me.

This being said, I will point out there are indeed three things that don’t fit a scum!Persivul narrative:
1) why he would come out of the blue and confirm I’m miller rather than letting me be potentially mislynched day 2
2) Persivul fake claiming Role Cop means that there is two millers with no way of confirming either
3) why would Persivul make the Eve kill being a claimed role cop attracting suspicion. That’s tracker bait at its finest.

I do think a Persivul flip will benefit town more than a Popopopo flip. The progression of reads on Popopo as point out by Knightmare is very interesting along with Popopopo’s 896. I don’t see scum!Popopopopo coming up with that to frame Persivul. That’s a townie post with townie motivation.

[mavsfan41]

I get your point. Let's mass claim tho

Miller

[Tanner]

Food for thought: assume popopopo is scum fakeclaiming - how did they know georgebailey didn't go anywhere N1?

Hold it - scum tracker is a thing too, so no, the George association isn't a hard scum point. But George is scum nonetheless.

Thinking this through:

1. If popo flips scum tracker, we can't make conclusions from that on George's alignment

2.

If popo flips scum but not tracker, than George is almost certainly scum

, as popo could have just claimed a result on a dead person for N1.

Is that correct?

Not necessarily. I think it's still possible scum had an investigative that checked George Night 1 (such as a Vanilla Cop). It's also possible They took a blind guess. I don't know how

probable

any of these are though. Maybe I'm just tunneled on my George=VI read.

[Tanner]

@Tanner: If Persivul is scum, he knows I’m town and therefore I’m not fake claiming miller. So I could see why he would confirm miller without actually role copping me.

This being said, I will point out there are indeed three things that don’t fit a scum!Persivul narrative:
1) why he would come out of the blue and confirm I’m miller rather than letting me be potentially mislynched day 2
2) Persivul fake claiming Role Cop means that there is two millers with no way of confirming either
3) why would Persivul make the Eve kill being a claimed role cop attracting suspicion. That’s tracker bait at its finest.

I do think a Persivul flip will benefit town more than a Popopopo flip. The progression of reads on Popopo as point out by Knightmare is very interesting along with Popopopo’s 896. I don’t see scum!Popopopopo coming up with that to frame Persivul. That’s a townie post with townie motivation.

holy hell. It's not about actually rolecopping you or not. It's about whether Persi is scum or not. Obviously scum!him'd know you weren't lying.

Do you see my point regarding (1) and (2)? How unlikely it is? That both setup is literally designed to give scum two free mislynches AND that scum!persi decided to stop your mislynch for ??? reasons? Why are you voting Town over obvious (from your PoV) fakeclaiming scum?

[GeorgeBailey]

I think that's a really valid point. The fact that it's ungated is pretty weird. But my point is that both probably have the highest chance of getting shot in either scenario.

VOTE: popo

[Knightmare491]

Maybe I'm just tunneled on my George=VI read.

lol

[Knightmare491]

Someone finalise an order in which we massclaim so that we can do this properly..............

[GeorgeBailey]

Why are we mass claiming? If today's lynch isn't scum, then can't we agree to lynch the other?

How will mass claiming help?

[mavsfan41]

Wtf?!? Popopo cannot be a scum tracker!!!
Popopo to be a scum tracker is to accept they tracked George but also accepting they targeted NOT Persivul N2 if Persivul is going to claim he didn’t go anywhere and is lying about tracking Perisuvl and his destination to frame him!!!

Popopo is either:
1) tracker who is telling the truth - aka Persivul visited Eve last night
2) scum claiming tracker - aka lying about Persivul and who cares about George at this point.

@Persivul: again, to even entertain this idea of scum tracker Popopopo is to acknowledge they are telling the truth about George during N1 BUT LYING about you N2. Popopo has alleged you visited Eve. You claim you didn’t do anything. I don’t even know how you could believe half a tracker story but not the other. If you’re saying Popopopo is lying about your night action’s last night, you should reject the tracker theory in full as a ploy to save themselves at the 11th hour. You’re in on both which makes literally no sense

[Tanner]

I'm not all in favor of massclaim because I'm not sure if it's necessary. Even if we agreed to go, we're never going to agree on an order. My preferred order would probably be

Prana - Ruby - Knight - George - Una - Tanner

Also I legit forgot Ruby was in this game and had to go to the OP to read who even is here.

pedit: apparently massclaiming would help because we can then figure out if the Tracker is lying or not. But honestly we should really just lynch him. Either he's scum, or both Persi/mavs are.

[Persivul]

Food for thought: assume popopopo is scum fakeclaiming - how did they know georgebailey didn't go anywhere N1?

Hold it - scum tracker is a thing too, so no, the George association isn't a hard scum point. But George is scum nonetheless.

Thinking this through:

1. If popo flips scum tracker, we can't make conclusions from that on George's alignment

2.

If popo flips scum but not tracker, than George is almost certainly scum

, as popo could have just claimed a result on a dead person for N1.

Is that correct?

Not necessarily. I think it's still possible scum had an investigative that checked George Night 1 (such as a Vanilla Cop). It's also possible They took a blind guess. I don't know how

probable

any of these are though. Maybe I'm just tunneled on my George=VI read.

Yeah actually for George to be town, SCUM need to have an investigative, but it doesn't need to be popo specifically. Bummer. A two-fer would have been nice.

[Persivul]

holy hell. It's not about actually rolecopping you or not. It's about whether Persi is scum or not. Obviously scum!him'd know you weren't lying.

Do you see my point regarding (1) and (2)? How unlikely it is? That both setup is literally designed to give scum two free mislynches AND that scum!persi decided to stop your mislynch for ??? reasons? Why are you voting Town over obvious (from your PoV) fakeclaiming scum?

I usually don't take games personally, but yeah, if mavs mislynches me after I used my shot to save him, post-game is going to be ugly.

[Knightmare491]

Prana - Ruby - Knight - George - Una - Tanner

I'm okay with this

[Persivul]

But my point is that both probably have the highest chance of getting shot in either scenario.

Why would I be the likely target if I'm telling the truth?

[GeorgeBailey]

Why would I be the likely target if I'm telling the truth?

This doesn't really seem like a bus, so popo flipping scum would pretty much confirm you town, and Mavs too.

[Tanner]

Do you see my point regarding (1) and (2)? How unlikely it is? That both setup is literally designed to give scum two free mislynches AND that scum!persi decided to stop your mislynch for ??? reasons? Why are you voting Town over obvious (from your PoV) fakeclaiming scum?

mavs, how are you so confident that popo cannot me a scum Tracker but cannot realize this?

[PranaDevil]

Can you give us some more on that last slot?

No.

What do you think about my point against Knightmare? That Knightmare can apparently see me/Persi as either T/S or S/T but not T/T?

He knows Persi is scum, therefore he had no reason to say it could be T/T, and is trying to buy town points when Persi flips scum. It has failed.

As for the Tanner case if Persivul flips scum, 976 is quintessential scum buddy bargaining an alternative lynch to protect his buddy. As I’ve explained, this makes no sense coming from neutral town to lynch a potential tracker vs a 1x PR. And since Tanner has been pushing a Knightmare lynch all game, I would easily vote Tanner over Knightmare on a Persivul scum flip.

This is a fair point, and something to consider once Persivul has flipped scum and we take a look at the night kill.

But Knightmare quickly unvoted when it got to L-1. If it was a bus he'd probably just silently stay on the wagon.

There also read like there was a chance the wagon would flip to popo due to the push from Persi and Tanner.

@Tanner, we know that one of Persivul and popo is scum, why do you want to lynch a tracker over an essentially VT?

You lynch me today and I flip green.

HOPEFULLY when you see my 1X you'll all realize that popo's claim is mechanically impossible and lynch him.

You somehow flip green now, we insta-lynch popo tomorrow. This bit is not even up for debate.

even if Persivul is scum and we lynched him today, popo is gonna get shot tonight. There's most likely no protectives since our IC died.

You could pretty much say the same in reverse. You dont think this confirms Persivul if Popo is scum?

Also, why do you trust a 1-shot claim over a PR claim?

I do think it confirms Persivul but Persivul is 1-shot ANYWAY so he wouldn't be able to get more results NO MATTER IF HE GETS SHOT OR NOT

Because popo is scummy as fuck and his claim is scummy as fuck? You know scum can fakeclaim? Why in the ever loving hell should I believe him? Becuasse he claimed ungated Tracker? Use your brain. Please the only thing I'm begging this Town please start using your brains. How is popo claiming an Ungated Tracker in any way shape or form more clearing or credible over Persi claiming 1-shot?

It isn't... BY ITSELF

Persivul is already scummy.

popo didn't just claim it when they were about to be lynched, their ISO proves as such.

To suggest popo is fakeclaiming, is to suggest they planned to fakeclaim tracker ahead of time, and breadcrumbed all day.

Persivul is caught scum.

Food for thought: assume popopopo is scum fakeclaiming - how did they know georgebailey didn't go anywhere N1?

Hold it - scum tracker is a thing too, so no, the George association isn't a hard scum point. But George is scum nonetheless.

Thinking this through:

1. If popo flips scum tracker, we can't make conclusions from that on George's alignment

2.

If popo flips scum but not tracker, than George is almost certainly scum

, as popo could have just claimed a result on a dead person for N1.

Is that correct?

There's no scum tracker. I appreciate your desperation to survive though.

Regarding mass claiming... LET'S NOT FUCKING DO THAT.

There's two things that happen.

1 - We announce all the PRs and scum get an easy kill as we approach the endgame (and if we DO lynch wrong today, because no matter how certain I am, I will always have doubt short of someone actively announcing they are scum).
2 - As someone said earlier, all PRs announce they are VT, and... we GET NO INFO ANYWAY.

Waste of bastarding time.

[Persivul]

@Persivul: again, to even entertain this idea of scum tracker Popopopo is to acknowledge they are telling the truth about George during N1 BUT LYING about you N2. Popopo has alleged you visited Eve. You claim you didn’t do anything. I don’t even know how you could believe half a tracker story but not the other. If you’re saying Popopopo is lying about your night action’s last night, you should reject the tracker theory in full as a ploy to save themselves at the 11th hour. You’re in on both which makes literally no sense

Possibilities if popo is scum tracker:

1. George is town and went nowhere. popo is telling the truth about George to get cred at least with him, but lying about me.

Why do you think it's impossible for a human to tell the truth on one thing but lie about another?

I mean, sorry, but that's just dumb, and you don't seem like a dumb person. I'd think you were scummy if not for my result.

2. George is also scum. popo tracked someone else N1, but thought that giving a result on a dead person looks somewhat suspect, so he used his buddy.

[PranaDevil]

Here's what we are doing today:

We are lynching Persivul, fuck me sideways, he's the obvious lynch. Popo has been saying he investigated Persivul ALL FUCKING DAY PHASE!

Tomorrow we will look at Persivul's scum buddies, one of them is Knightmare. We'll take a look at the vote counts too.

On the very, very, very minor off chance that popo lied (and I've somehow been wrong about the fact Persivul is the scummiest MF'er I've ever played with), then we insta-lynch Popo tomorrow, without fail.

What we are NOT doing is mass fucking claiming for literally no benefit to any fucker, especially not when the person pushing for it is obv! scum Knightmare.

Now, everyone on the Persivul wagon, lets lynch up the scum master general, and get this game back on track, because Jesus H Christ it's been a shit show so far

[Tanner]

To suggest popo is fakeclaiming, is to suggest they planned to fakeclaim tracker ahead of time, and breadcrumbed all day.

To suggest Persi is fakeclaiming, is to suggest mavs decided to counterclaim a Miller and then have his buddy claim Rolecop in order to save his ass tomorrow.

This work? We voting popo now? No? Oh.

[PranaDevil]

THERE IS NO SCUM TRACKER