Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[mavsfan41]

If Popopopo was a scum tracker, do you believe they tracked George?

Yes - then you believe that they’re telling the truth about N1. But you also are saying they lied about N2 claiming Perisvul visited Eve when Persivul has gone on record saying that did NOT happen

No - they’re not a tracker and lied about George and Persivul.

Scum!Popopopopo is lying about Persivul regardless of their role. The only possible scenario I see is that scum tracker Popopopo (at that point Luca) tracked George but tracked someone NOT persivul N2 but is lying about their real target and instead claiming they targeted Persivul. That’s a less likely scenario than scum!Popopopo just lying about tracker altogether

[PranaDevil]

To suggest popo is fakeclaiming, is to suggest they planned to fakeclaim tracker ahead of time, and breadcrumbed all day.

To suggest Persi is fakeclaiming, is to suggest mavs decided to counterclaim a Miller and then have his buddy claim Rolecop in order to save his ass tomorrow.

This work? We voting popo now? No? Oh.

No it isn't, I've been over this many, many, many times, but let me break it down nice and simple.

Scum!Persivul ALREADY knows if mavs is scum or town.

If mavs is town, Persivul fakeclaimed rolecop to buy credibility from mavs, knowing that later on, if people voted mavs it "confirms" Persivul, or if Persivul is lynched, people are suspicious of mavs.

Yes, your idea IS plausible... but it's also less likely.

In addition, Persivul DID NOT CLAIM 1X ON DAY TWO

He let any possible protective role target him while they ignored the IC to get the kill on the IC, and only claimed 1X on day 3 to both stop him giving results, and stop it looking weird that he wasn't killed as a PR.

NOTHING about Persivul's play is town, LITERALLY NOTHING.

Oh... and let me remind you all again...

POPO BREADCRUMBED PERSIVUL BEING TRACKED ALL DAY PHASE

Now... let us lynch the known scum, please and thanks?

[Persivul]

If Popopopo was a scum tracker, do you believe they tracked George?

Yes - then you believe that they’re telling the truth about N1. But you also are saying they lied about N2 claiming Perisvul visited Eve when Persivul has gone on record saying that did NOT happen

No - they’re not a tracker and lied about George and Persivul.

Scum!Popopopopo is lying about Persivul regardless of their role. The only possible scenario I see is that scum tracker Popopopo (at that point Luca) tracked George but tracked someone NOT persivul N2 but is lying about their real target and instead claiming they targeted Persivul. That’s a less likely scenario than scum!Popopopo just lying about tracker altogether

You're forgetting the possible scenario in which George and popo are both scum.

[Tanner]

Scum!Persivul ALREADY knows if mavs is scum or town.

If mavs is town, Persivul fakeclaimed rolecop to buy credibility from mavs, knowing that later on, if people voted mavs it "confirms" Persivul, or if Persivul is lynched, people are suspicious of mavs.

do you understand what i'm trying to tell you about what Persivul being scum and mavs being town implies?

it implies both:
(1) that Persi decided to enter this claiming mess in order to play a "deepwolf" (even though it was obviusly gonna cause him problems down the line, as it is now) and save mavs from a mislynch, when multiple please have expressed they wanted to to lynch mavs if Drew flipped green.
(2) that the setup has two Millers with no way to confirm either who are then both a free mislynch as they counterclaim each other.

Do you see how both (1) and (2) are so unlikely?

[Tanner]

He let any possible protective role target him while they ignored the IC to get the kill on the IC, and only claimed 1X on day 3 to both stop him giving results, and stop it looking weird that he wasn't killed as a PR.

Honestly if the Town Protective was enough of a moron to protect a claimed Rolecop over a literal IC, then we deserve to lose, plain and simple.

[mavsfan41]

@Persivul: nfw scum!George votes scum!Popopopo in 857 and furthermore absolutely no chance scum!George votes scum!popopopo in 1058 and vote his scum buddy rather than just leaving it on you for the easy mislynch.

[PranaDevil]

Scum!Persivul ALREADY knows if mavs is scum or town.

If mavs is town, Persivul fakeclaimed rolecop to buy credibility from mavs, knowing that later on, if people voted mavs it "confirms" Persivul, or if Persivul is lynched, people are suspicious of mavs.

do you understand what i'm trying to tell you about what Persivul being scum and mavs being town implies?

it implies both:
(1) that Persi decided to enter this claiming mess in order to play a "deepwolf" (even though it was obviusly gonna cause him problems down the line, as it is now) and save mavs from a mislynch, when multiple please have expressed they wanted to to lynch mavs if Drew flipped green.
(2) that the setup has two Millers with no way to confirm either who are then both a free mislynch as they counterclaim each other.

Do you see how both (1) and (2) are so unlikely?

Nothing about this game is normal thus far.

A 1x rolecop also doesn't fix the balance... actually worse if anything.

two millers claim, the first one is lynched, rolecop checks the second one, confirms it... town believe it, but at the expense of the rolecop who is NK'd by scum, then there's another miller and an IC to be NK'd too...

If anything, two millers waste a rolecop use, and it confirms it ONLY to him.

a 1x rolecop in this game would be a NEGATIVE to town, not a positive... and we already had multiple negatives.

Now, I'm not considering a popo lynch, Persivul is very much the lynch today, no matter what.

[Tanner]

a 1x rolecop who confirms a Miller as town is a fucking negative. well now i've literally heard everything.

[GeorgeBailey]

A 1x rolecop also doesn't fix the balance... actually worse if anything.

What would make it better rather than a rolecop? I feel like Rolecop is the only thing that can balance this.

[Persivul]

@Persivul: nfw scum!George votes scum!Popopopo in 857 and furthermore absolutely no chance scum!George votes scum!popopopo in 1058 and vote his scum buddy rather than just leaving it on you for the easy mislynch.

My flip conftowns you 100%.

When you're still alive in final lylo...ask yourself

why

.

[PranaDevil]

a 1x rolecop who confirms a Miller as town is a fucking negative. well now i've literally heard everything.

You only read the first bit didn't you.

How the fuck is a 1x rolecop BENEFICIAL to town there? It does not confirm the miller to anyone EXCEPT itself. So all it does it trade itself for the miller at absolute best. That's it.

Also, Popo makes no sense as scum, or are you claiming Popo planned to claim Tracker all day?

[Persivul]

A 1x rolecop also doesn't fix the balance... actually worse if anything.

two millers claim, the first one is lynched, rolecop checks the second one, confirms it... town believe it, but at the expense of the rolecop who is NK'd by scum, then there's another miller and an IC to be NK'd too...

If anything, two millers waste a rolecop use, and it confirms it ONLY to him.

a 1x rolecop in this game would be a NEGATIVE to town, not a positive... and we already had multiple negatives.

Holy shit, I've seen blatant gaslighting before but this takes the cake.

Bravo sir, you have some mighty big balls!

But this does solidify my scum read on you, as I don't think even bad town could come to the conclusion that 2 millers and a rolecop is BETTER for town than 2 millers alone.

[Tanner]

a 1x rolecop who confirms a Miller as town is a fucking negative. well now i've literally heard everything.

You only read the first bit didn't you.

How the fuck is a 1x rolecop BENEFICIAL to town there? It does not confirm the miller to anyone EXCEPT itself. So all it does it trade itself for the miller at absolute best. That's it.

Also, Popo makes no sense as scum, or are you claiming Popo planned to claim Tracker all day?

"How is a Cop beneficial to Town? It only proves the role to itself, not to the whole Town. How are Masons beneficial to Town? Only themselves know the other is Town, not the whole Town." Are you hearing yourself right now?

Yes, that's what I'm claiming. Saying "Persi is lying" is such an amazing crumb for literally exactly Tracker. l m a o.

[Persivul]

2 millers and a rolecop is BETTER for town than 2 millers alone

Flip those obviously.

[PranaDevil]

vote:persivul

persivul lied yesterday and i believe he is still not being truthful with us.

i agree with prana that persi is extremely sus. my scumread on prana from yesterday i think was more of a playstlye thing, as the setup spec has continued.

These THREE posts aren't just "Persivul lied"

popo voted Persivul first, called him a liar second, and THEN BACKED ME UP.

It's quite clear popo tracked Persivul based on my comments yesterday.

Fuck me this town.

[Tanner]

I love how you skipped over this part. Oh well.

"How is a Cop beneficial to Town? It only proves the role to itself, not to the whole Town. How are Masons beneficial to Town? Only themselves know the other is Town, not the whole Town." Are you hearing yourself right now?

What does him backing you up have to do with anything? My point is that, sure, he's been voting Persi the whole day today but that really doesn't magically make his claim truthful. I've seen good scum start planning their fakeclaim from their first post. It doesn't prove anything.

[PranaDevil]

I love how you skipped over this part. Oh well.

"How is a Cop beneficial to Town? It only proves the role to itself, not to the whole Town. How are Masons beneficial to Town? Only themselves know the other is Town, not the whole Town." Are you hearing yourself right now?

What does him backing you up have to do with anything? My point is that, sure, he's been voting Persi the whole day today but that really doesn't magically make his claim truthful. I've seen good scum start planning their fakeclaim from their first post. It doesn't prove anything.

That bit doesn't matter. In THIS SPECIFIC SITUATION the rolecop isn't beneficial to town.

I notice you've constantly tried going "lol, Prana's an idiot"... which, fuck everyone doing that.

What none of you have done is told me how saving the miller IS FUCKING BENEFICIAL AT THE EXPENSE OF THE ROLECOP.

Like... serious-fucking-ly.

How is "miller 1 dies, miller 2 dies" WORSE for the town than "Miller one dies, a town PR dies, miller is NK'd due to being obv town".

It's a 1 shot... town would have been STRONGER to have 1 miller and two vanillas in those roles.

Thus... you are all attempting to get me, and others, to believe that THREE NEGATIVE UTILITIES ARE A BONUS

Fuck that noise.

[Tanner]

It's a 1-shot rolecop. Not every town PR has to be as strong as a Cop. a 1-shot Town Rolecop would exist here to confirm the Miller and nothing else. Literally nothing else. That's not negative. That's a positive because it turns what was gonna be a mislynch into something scum has to kill. I'm not claiming it's good setup design. but arguing that turning a Miller from a mislynch into a scumkill is a "negative" is insane.

Yes, town would obviously be stronger to have 1 miller and no rolecop. That means there's PRs elsewhere. There hasn't been a massclaim. You don't know the full power of the Town.

[Persivul]

That bit doesn't matter. In THIS SPECIFIC SITUATION the rolecop isn't beneficial to town.

I notice you've constantly tried going "lol, Prana's an idiot"... which, fuck everyone doing that.

What none of you have done is told me how saving the miller IS FUCKING BENEFICIAL AT THE EXPENSE OF THE ROLECOP.

Why do you say at the expense of the rolecop when the rolecop is alive?

Like... serious-fucking-ly.

How is "miller 1 dies, miller 2 dies" WORSE for the town than "Miller one dies, a town PR dies, miller is NK'd due to being obv town".

Scenario 1 is two mislynches. Scenario 2 can be limited to one mislynch. Town doesn't need to lynch a rolecop like they do a miller.

[PranaDevil]

It's a 1-shot rolecop. Not every town PR has to be as strong as a Cop. a 1-shot Town Rolecop would exist here to confirm the Miller and nothing else. Literally nothing else. That's not negative. That's a positive because it turns what was gonna be a mislynch into something scum has to kill. I'm not claiming it's good setup design. but arguing that turning a Miller from a mislynch into a scumkill is a "negative" is insane.

Yes, town would obviously be stronger to have 1 miller and no rolecop. That means there's PRs elsewhere. There hasn't been a massclaim. You don't know the full power of the Town.

So... there has to be power roles elsewhere, and YOU WANT TO LYNCH THE CLAIMED TRACKER?

That bit doesn't matter. In THIS SPECIFIC SITUATION the rolecop isn't beneficial to town.

I notice you've constantly tried going "lol, Prana's an idiot"... which, fuck everyone doing that.

What none of you have done is told me how saving the miller IS FUCKING BENEFICIAL AT THE EXPENSE OF THE ROLECOP.

Why do you say at the expense of the rolecop when the rolecop is alive?

Like... serious-fucking-ly.

How is "miller 1 dies, miller 2 dies" WORSE for the town than "Miller one dies, a town PR dies, miller is NK'd due to being obv town".

Scenario 1 is two mislynches. Scenario 2 can be limited to one mislynch. Town doesn't need to lynch a rolecop like they do a miller.

You mean the rolecop that is currently alive because they took out the IC because any potential protective role was drawn away from it so protect the claimed power role, despite the fact it was a 1 shot, and would have been better dead N2 to confirm the miller over losing the IC?

You are alive solely BECAUSE you are scum.

Fucking hell.

[Tanner]

So... there has to be power roles elsewhere, and YOU WANT TO LYNCH THE CLAIMED TRACKER?

Yes, because I don't believe for a second he's a Tracker.

You mean the rolecop that is currently alive because they took out the IC because any potential protective role was drawn away from it so protect the claimed power role, despite the fact it was a 1 shot, and would have been better dead N2 to confirm the miller over losing the IC?

What protective would EVER be drawn to a claimed rolecop over a

literal IC

?

[Persivul]

You mean the rolecop that is currently alive because they took out the IC because any potential protective role was drawn away from it so protect the claimed power role, despite the fact it was a 1 shot, and would have been better dead N2 to confirm the miller over losing the IC?

We could find out if there's a doc, and if so, whom they protected and when, with massclaim. But you're against massclaim.

[PranaDevil]

Clearly any protective we have that did that... because they clearly didn't protect the IC N2.

If we have a protective role... they didn't protect the IC. If we don't have one... then it makes town weaker still.

And we should not mass claim because THEN SCUM KNOW WHO TO KILL.

Jesus wept.

And why the fuck am I arguing with two scums anyway?

We need Persivul gone please, then Tanner has to go, as if popo is town, that makes Tanner scum.

[Tanner]

If a protective did that, that's not Persi's fault. Honestly i'm 100% blaming the protective in that scenario, whatever Persi's alignment is.

Also, I'm scum now? With Knightmare still? lmao.

[PranaDevil]

Tanner is a scum due to VCA saying one of me, Tanner and popo is.

If Persivul flips red, as I've been saying he will a fair chunk of the game now, that means popo is town. Anyone thinking Persivul/Prana is a scum team has not been reading the game, that means it would be Tanner.