SIR Disease Mafia - Game Over!

[Quick]

ETL is tentatively a TR. Her thoughts seem town motivated. It's only tentative because I vaguely remember her being very reactive as scum and I can't say I equally remember her being reactive as town.

Okay, so Dave agrees with me that ETL was too over the top on their SR of me. And Dave is using meta so make of that what you will.

[50 Judge Powers]

I wonder if it would benefit us to announce if we’ve been infected? There’s bound to be someone with the ability to target infected with a cure or something.

If I was the mod I would give Mafia a Watcher to counter that. Also, imagine the town decided to lynch the claimer. They die as "Infected" and would still win/lose with the Mafia not the town. Plus, announcing you got infected is playing against your current win con, so one would be risking a ban.

[mastina]

ETL implied they love the rhetoric and argumentation in Mafia: so isn't the "manufactured tone" likely to be a product of playstyle rather than alignment?

I sincerely doubt it.

How would you evaluate their progressions ans trajectories apart from that?

Incredibly shallow, surface-level reads that lack any real depth to them. They reek of reads that are meant to look good without actually being good--with zero genuine thought progression in them, saying what is convenient to say rather than saying something with conviction behind it.

None of her reads look like they have anything controversial about them. To wit,

TOWN
Auro
Quick
Vecna
Dave
Miss Lynch
Nero
Alchemist
Farside

NULL
Creature
Jake
50
Elements
Flavor leaf

PL
5G
Voted
Saudade

SCUM
Mastina
Hoctac?
Ari?
Tchill

The closest to controversial townreads she comes are the davesaz read (and the only thing controversial about that is the strength of the townread, in that it's probably not controversial to say davesaz is north of null) and the Alchemist read (when many people are scumreading him).

None of the scumreads are controversial at all, and all of them are easy reads to hold. Multiple people are suspicious of Hoctac; I am always an easy scumread; Aristophanes hasn't obvtowned himself yet (I'm not fully caught up btw so not positive about that, I'll find out later I guess), and Tchill's an easy enough player to scumread--he's probably the closest the scumreads have to anything controversial due to how he can be townread, too, but it's still undeniable that it's easy to scumread him.

These reads are all surface-level reads that have no true analysis, no true depth, backing them. And what ETL is doing is mostly complaining rather than pushing.

[Auro]

You wouldn't eat a ban if you were duped by town into claiming infected, i.e. playing against your win-con but unintentionally.

[50 Judge Powers]

Or Mafia infects one person and the Town person spreads it someone.

Again: NO. Only the

original

3 members of Mafia can infect people. The infected are like "Traitors" who do not know their main team, but the main team knows them. They also can be killed by the main team, and they lose if the main team is eliminated.

[Nero Cain]

though I dunno exactly how the nk would work, b/c if they infect a player tonight and then like kill him? or be forced to use one of there 2 kills outside of the pool but that seems unfair to them....

would be funny if a50 DID slip the mafia has multiple infections tonight to start building up that pool.

[Nero Cain]

though I dunno exactly how the nk would work, b/c if they infect a player tonight and then like kill him? or be forced to use one of there 2 kills outside of the pool but that seems unfair to them....

would be funny if a50 DID slip the mafia has multiple infections tonight to start building up that pool.

[Auro]

The kills should be for the doc, I believe

[davesaz]

how does a50 know that all the mafia can recruit? Does it say that in the op?

It says the infection is a

factional

ability, so all original Mafia members have access to it.

kinda an odd way to put it no?

No it's not odd.
In a cult game if you eliminate the cult leader the immediate danger is gone.
In this game you have to eliminate all the mafia.
I didn't have any problem understanding what 50JP meant by that post.

[50 Judge Powers]

Except people are not going to know they are infected...

That can't be the case, because if you don't know then you don't know your own wincon. An infected player should get a notification of their alignment change to be able to play to their new wincon.

By now I am sus of both ETL & Quick for missing fundamental concepts of how a game should work despite them both being experienced enough.

[50 Judge Powers]

I mean I'm 500+ posts behind but it looks like they are trying to mislead the town here. I am not feeling good about their speculations.

[Quick]

I mean I'm 500+ posts behind but it looks like they are trying to mislead the town here. I am not feeling good about their speculations.

The only lynches I have lead have been on MU.

[davesaz]

Or Mafia infects one person and the Town person spreads it someone.

Again: NO. Only the

original

3 members of Mafia can infect people. The infected are like "Traitors" who do not know their main team, but the main team knows them. They also can be killed by the main team, and they lose if the main team is eliminated.

This does follow from a strict reading of the mechanics section, but it's viable to think that infected

could

spread it with actions because that would fit with flavor. We won't know unless it happens.

That speculation doesn't diminish the thought that it is best to aim for mafia and that we have to catch 'em all -- which goes without saying anyway.

[Nero Cain]

I'm sorry if I'm being dumb but if mafia have a factional ability to recruit a player each night I just feel like

AND all of them

was a strange way to put it.

They can't all recruit. I mean, yes that mechanic stays until they are dead but...it was just a weird way of putting it I think.

[davesaz]

BTW 50's posts that are happening now are town-indicative.

[davesaz]

Nero questioning them seems town-indicative as well.

[Auro]

What's your take on Mastina?

[mastina]

Mastina, have you been pushing them just to observe reactions?

I mean, that's not something I actually really do.

I never push something I don't believe. I can push something I'm not sure of, and

every

push of mine, every push, is meant to garner reactions, and from those generated reactions, give me more information to reform my stances from. But every push, I believe in. Some pushes I have doubts about, but these doubts usually become readily apparent and right now I have almost none.

There's always the chance I am wrong about the likes of ETL, Saudade, Alch, and the like. Heck, there's a high probability that at least 1-2 of them are town because I never nail the scumteam on D1, and while I am usually not so off the mark as to have no scum in my initial suspects, it's also not unheard of so there's even the chance all three are town!

But those doubts are thoroughly unproductive to have because they don't lead anywhere especially when said doubts are just that--doubts, not beliefs. I do not believe ETL is town; I believe she is scum. There are doubts so that read is not absolute, sure, but I still think that she's far more likely to be scum than town. I do not believe Alch is town; I think he's scum. There are some stronger doubts there so that read is not absolute, but I still think that he's probably more likely scum than town. I do not believe Saudade is town; I believe he is scum. There are doubts so that read is not absolute, but I still think it more likely that he's scum than town.

I feel like I have good reasons to suspect ETL and I don't have good reasons behind the doubt in that scumread--the doubts come across more as paranoia of "what if I'm wrong?".
I feel like I do have the right reasons for my read on Alch, but I admit that the reasons behind my doubt there are more or less questioning if my reasons are right, in tandem with seeing things which

might

signal him being town.
My reasons for Saudade are more or less gut, and I trust my gut a fair amount, but there is some obvious doubt there in that I don't have any real reason outside of gut.

And none of this should be a surprise, because as I previously stated: my townreads are, comparatively, much much much stronger than my scumreads. My scumreads

could

be wrong; my townreads

aren't

wrong, at least, not above a certain mark on the list. (Weaker townreads obviously could be wrong, they wouldn't be weak townreads if they couldn't be wrong. But stronger townreads just aren't wrong here.)

[Nero Cain]

Again: NO. Only the original 3 members of Mafia can infect people. The infected are like "Traitors" who do not know their main team, but the main team knows them. They also can be killed by the main team, and they lose if the main team is eliminated.

this comes from a place of great knowledge...

[50 Judge Powers]

How does ETL agree to Quick's proposition the infected may not be informed of their infection, yet still asks the mod about them announcing it?? I mean, the question directed @Mod doesn't appear to have a shred of doubt about them getting notified of it.

VOTE: ETL

[50 Judge Powers]

Again: NO. Only the original 3 members of Mafia can infect people. The infected are like "Traitors" who do not know their main team, but the main team knows them. They also can be killed by the main team, and they lose if the main team is eliminated.

this comes from a place of great knowledge...

Shut up, Nero! Try THINKING before you throw out accusations. Why would a Mafioso EVER say what I'm saying in public??

[Auro]

Why would a Mafioso EVER say what I'm saying in public??

The WIFOM, of course! To ask this exact question!

[Nero Cain]

yes, no scum have ever revealed set up information so they look all smart. nope.

[50 Judge Powers]

I still hold that Mafia might have an arsonist, but that might only be ONE of their roles. They might also have a GF and/or a Cult Leader.

Actually, this is more sus than ETL's.

VOTE: Quick

[Auro]

Why would Mafioso!Quick say what he said in public?