SIR Disease Mafia - Game Over!

[mastina]

It may sound arrogant but I have a probable track record of being a great scum hunter.

Yeah, exactly.
And you're not showing it.
You're complaining instead of scumhunting.

Complaining about various stuff in a "woe is me" manner, instead of doing that great scumhunting.

The majority of your posts are not pushing players; the majority of your posts are AtE.
You're not giving reasons for the majority of your reads and the few reasons you have given are largely shallow, surface-level thoughts that have no real depth to them. You're not following through on those thoughts; you're not pushing your reads; you're instead complaining and blaming everyone around you for this.

Which is why I say--if you're town, that's a total failure on your part, where you have every power in the world to have pushed more and done more, but are choosing to blame everyone else, choosing to say it's the fault of the rest of the town rather than your own doing.

But if you're scum, there's no failure at all, because that play is precisely the optimal scum play to make, especially in a game of this nature.

You're doing things that are optimal for scum but are, for a town player, an objective failure of an approach.

The respect I have in your capabilities as a player, the respect I have in your competency,

demands

that in an assessment of your play, balance of probability, that the play that is self-explanatory as scum but which makes no sense as town, is just you as scum.

[Covid 19]

Day 1 VC #38

Creature (2): Tchill13 (1538), davesaz (1556)
Auro (0):
Hoctac (1): Elements (730)
5G Tower (0):
Jake the Wolfie (0):
Aristophanes (1): Nero Cain (1160)
Quick (1): 50 Judge Powers (1623)
Vecna (2): Alchemist21 (124), Voted (802)
Voted (0):
Alchemist21 (1): farside22 (1345)
Elements (0):
Flavor Leaf (1): Saudade (1340)
farside22 (0):
EspeciallyTheLies (4): mastina (397), Hoctac (1262), Quick (1562), EspeciallyTheLies (1645)
50 Judge Powers (2): Vecna (1431), Auro (1543)
mastina (0):
Miss Lynch (0):
Tchill13 (0):
Saudade (0):
No Lynch (0):
Not Voting (6): Creature, 5G Tower, Jake the Wolfie, Aristophanes, Flavor Leaf (449), Miss Lynch (489)

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch a player.

This phase will end on May 19, 2020 1:00 PM EDT (GMT-4:00) or in (expired on 2020-05-19 13:00:00).

Moderator Notes

1. If you have regular weekend V/LA, you must either notify me each time or set V/LA tags each time.
2.

Please note the prodding rules. You are prodded after 32 hours of inactivity except on Saturday-Monday.

3. MathBlade's automated votecounter doesn't appear to track No Lynch votes properly. I'm still waiting for a response from him.
4. If you see any errors in a votecount or in the voting history, please feel free to inform me either in-thread (by bolding) or via pm.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I liked most of the Mastina stuff so far, but the big overexplainy post on her townreading me and Auro felt like something a scum player could recycle every game and apply to literally any player with a few bits and pieces changed.

I mean, you're not

wrong

, but that doesn't make it any less true or any less valid as analysis. It so happens that, yes, is easily recyclable and thus easy to use as scum just as it can be used when town, but sometimes, even if it's a bit of a cliched reasoning, it's still the most apt reasoning to use.

ETL's progression really feels like its gone from good, to slightly less good, to doing a bunch of actions that can be construed as really badly, to then voting like 4 people in a row for reasons I thought made all of those slots obvtown. Extreme situation of thought dissonance

Not the exact words/reasoning I would use but I would convey similar. ETL's posting is very shallow and lacks depth, lacks followthrough, to it. She posts things which in the moment look plausibly good as passable opinions, but which when looked at in hindsight, don't actually have any true backing to them.

Ask mastina.

I think ETL is playing a good scumgame as shown by the players townreading her. If ETL is town, then this is not her finest moment tho. The only good a town-ETL would've done this game is having those aforementioned townreads on her. Because like I've said--ETL's content this game has looked town without actually doing anything town.

If she is scum, this is good play; if she is town, then there's no real good play to be seen in that approach.

So, really, depends on your alignment here. If you're scum, your play here is excellent as you're doing exactly what you should be doing as scum especially in a game of this nature. If you're town, your play is objectively not good with the one good spot being the ability to have garnered some townreads on your slot, the same thing which is better for scum here than town.

Insulting and wrong. This is why you’re scum. Have fun with that after I flip.

[50 Judge Powers]

though I dunno exactly how the nk would work, b/c if they infect a player tonight and then like kill him? or be forced to use one of there 2 kills outside of the pool but that seems unfair to them....

would be funny if a50 DID slip the mafia has multiple infections tonight to start building up that pool.

That would make no sense. The game would end on N2. All they need is to mislynch twice and NK twice (or even once) and the remaining players would be 18, 3 of which are Mafia and 6 are infected = parity achieved.

[Quick]

AtE

Sweet Jesus.

[mastina]

It isnt about reputation unless youve given a high enough quantity of social handjobs to people.

(*quietly shoves the massive pile of, "I would think badly of this, but it's mastina", under the table*)

[davesaz]

ETL's content this game has looked town without actually doing anything town.

Do you have a proactive > reactive bias in how your read people in general?

In case you missed the question.

[50 Judge Powers]

yes, no scum have ever revealed set up information so they look all smart. nope.

It would actually be DUMB. Instead, Mafia would always try to mislead Town into thinking of different other solutions early on so that they can get a head start of a day or two. Like, until Town figures out they'be been illogical in their propositions it would probably be too late for them catch up anyway. Why not let you/others think all infected roles can spread the infection themselves and have the town panicking by D2? If I want to win as Mafia I would use that mindset to sweep it all over.

But anyway, you do you. I know it's hard to convince you with anything that didn't originate from your own mind, and I would rather not waste our time/energy in this TvT debate.

[50 Judge Powers]

Why would Mafioso!Quick say what he said in public?

Misinformation. It's the way Mafia wins this (aside from Town's own goose hunt)

[mastina]

Town can recruit infected players back?

It's possible. After all, some immunities aren't permanent, so it could also work vice-versa where some infections aren't permanent.

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: etl

[Quick]

Town can recruit infected players back?

It's possible. After all, some immunities aren't permanent, so it could also work vice-versa where some infections aren't permanent.

This looks dirty.

GLFH, I am Town.

[mastina]

Don't prod me yet plz I'm getting there with this. Taking longer than I'd hoped

And you'll be labeled scum until you deliver this promise.

[Voted]

Wow. 40 new pages.
What happened? Are we out of RVS?

[Quick]

Wow. 40 new pages.
What happened? Are we out of RVS?

No, we are just getting started.

I like your avatar. It sounds good.

[Voted]

Wow. 40 new pages.
What happened? Are we out of RVS?

No, we are just getting started.

I like your avatar. It sounds good.

*checks the amount of votes on me*

[mastina]

I think infected people can infect other people by doing night actions but mafia don’t inherently infect people with their actions.

I'm somewhat skeptical of this.

Omg what if almost everyone has a night action but we have to STAY HOME to prevent it spreading too fast???

but town gotta have compulsive roles to mimic essential workers.

Or be healthcare workers whose jobs are to try and prevent the disease but which require them to be in conditions hazardous given the disease.

[Voted]

Wow. 40 new pages.
What happened? Are we out of RVS?

No, we are just getting started.

I like your avatar. It sounds good.

*checks the amount of votes on me*

Me be very good in an english.

[mastina]

i'm pretty null on Jake. I don't expect a scum flip but I also wouldn't be surprised if he flips scum. He wouldn't be a bad d1 flip but at the same time it feels like....so underwhelming.

Jake would be the classical compromise lynch where nobody can come to a clear enough consensus to lynch a more active player so they settle on an empty slot. Could be town, could be scum, but it's literally a coinflip because it's the deadest of dead slots. Not the worst lynch to make, but also far from the best because the best we could hope for from the lynch is that we won the lottery and randomly lynched scum; their lynch won't give us information, won't point us to scumbuddies even if they're scum and definitely won't help the town if flipping town.

That is to say--not an optimal lynch to make, but push come to shove, if need be; yes, I would roll the die and hope we got lucky with a scumflip, so would be willing to compromise lynch there. But it's far too early to be aiming for a compromise lynch when there's still very viable lynches that aren't compromise lynches on a dead lurker slot.

[Vecna]

Lulz, and Mastina wagons are always a great way to flush out the people with fake and shit reasoning
Sadly so far nothing -really- stood out. I think?

There were a couple of votes that stood out as being fake and shit reasoning.
Hint; they were the only two votes to

give

reasoning.

No, really.
Literally only two. (Well, FL I guess did give a reason too but he immediately unvoted. Of the, what, five, six players that voted? Only two gave a reason. Unless you count "I'm sheeping" as a reason which I do not. Or "I like wagons" as a reason which I do not.)

Can you guess which two players who voted me gave reasons for it?

It didnt stood out to me, so ive quickly forgotten

[Vecna]

ETL wagon is GROSS.

PEdit: Hocatc is GROSS. jk lol.

but seriously i disagee with the ETL pushes.

Tchill and me are now masons for this game. Well, at least for D1

[Vecna]

I liked most of the Mastina stuff so far, but the big overexplainy post on her townreading me and Auro felt like something a scum player could recycle every game and apply to literally any player with a few bits and pieces changed.

I mean, you're not

wrong

, but that doesn't make it any less true or any less valid as analysis. It so happens that, yes, is easily recyclable and thus easy to use as scum just as it can be used when town, but sometimes, even if it's a bit of a cliched reasoning, it's still the most apt reasoning to use.

ETL's progression really feels like its gone from good, to slightly less good, to doing a bunch of actions that can be construed as really badly, to then voting like 4 people in a row for reasons I thought made all of those slots obvtown. Extreme situation of thought dissonance

Not the exact words/reasoning I would use but I would convey similar. ETL's posting is very shallow and lacks depth, lacks followthrough, to it. She posts things which in the moment look plausibly good as passable opinions, but which when looked at in hindsight, don't actually have any true backing to them.

Ask mastina.

I think ETL is playing a good scumgame as shown by the players townreading her. If ETL is town, then this is not her finest moment tho. The only good a town-ETL would've done this game is having those aforementioned townreads on her. Because like I've said--ETL's content this game has looked town without actually doing anything town.

If she is scum, this is good play; if she is town, then there's no real good play to be seen in that approach.

So, really, depends on your alignment here. If you're scum, your play here is excellent as you're doing exactly what you should be doing as scum especially in a game of this nature. If you're town, your play is objectively not good with the one good spot being the ability to have garnered some townreads on your slot, the same thing which is better for scum here than town.

Meh, im still absolutely confident that ETL is town. Id even ask you to stop pushing it because itll go nowhere except toxicity, but I doubt you'd take my word for it (and I guess thats fair, but still...)

[mastina]

If town doesn't have an infection blocker or reviver, there's a very interesting gamebreaking strategy. Noting this here so I don't forget, remind me post-game.

I mean--infection blocker is guaranteed to be in the game, probably in multiple forms. Can't have the alternative wincon if there's no way to trigger said alternative wincon and the town would need a way to trigger said wincon thus there must be roles related to it.

A lot of her takes are forced and over the top, and she expresses unnatural overconfidence at times.

Explain with examples, pl0x.

Easy enough to do if it's that important, but it'd be something I'd have to have the perfect storm of availability to do; I'd need to
-Be caught up,
-Have the spare time,
-Be in the right mindset (there are days I don't want to play mafia),
-And have the physical/mental capability to create (need to not be tired).
Those factors all present, walk in the park to do; her iso's almost exclusively that type of content so it's easy enough to pull up examples of it.
Any of those factors absent, impossible to do, tho, sadly. I'd love to do it for you because I'd love to give the case but I just...have my limits as a human to what I can do.

[Nero Cain]

I dunno, that self vote is kinda

ate

y and just makes me wanna kill it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I dunno, that self vote is kinda

ate

y and just makes me wanna kill it.

I’m fine with that. I’d like to know what your plan is when I flip town. Who will you be looking at?