Newbie 1996: GAME OVER

[humaneatingmonkey]

But I noticed that I am losing these games, so I need to police myself better to not leave.

Sometimes you just gotta hammer the person you've been scumreading all these time.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

This game I forgot pages of.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

3bounty, did you read the scum PT ? tell me who is there with you.

I don't think I've laughed so hard in a long while.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You're quoting posts that we can't see. Open it up!!

[Elmo TeH AzN]

I'M AT WORK

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Dead Thread

Mafia Thread

[humaneatingmonkey]

No Mod Thread?

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Mod

After N1 I stopped really caring about it...

[humaneatingmonkey]

InWho22 stopped playing after this game.

[HoldenGolden]

Lol "Holden is definitely the tracker" just because I defended Kirari

You mean to tell me I could of died N1, worst mafia team ever!
--------
3b played really well with forward thinking about associations. The cli2d/3b pairing was really strong in the front due to his interactions on it.

Cli2d had a very fun playstyle compared to mine which tends not to focus on meta at all. Their posts were fun to read regardless of AI and where very sexually formatted. You did overestimate my ability to read HEM though considering all I've played with him is a day 1 blitz game (since day 2 was all about pr claims). Neither of us would of caught hem I think tho. Very solid game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

HG, you'll be super paranoid in our next game. But don't worry. I'm not gonna be scum.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Those threads were really illuminating. Sorry I handled your accusations poorly Holden, as stated I kind of spent a day being stunned by it. What do you think the best course of action would have been regarding it?

Also, I too really loved Clidd's playstyle. Made the analysis very fun and engaging, I wonder how they play scum like that?

[HoldenGolden]

HG, you'll be super paranoid in our next game. But don't worry. I'm not gonna be scum.

Anti-gambler fancy. I'll just lynch you day 1 of every game since you clearly cannot be trusted.

The mafia PT and comments like when I threw out he may be buddying me + monkey saying, as the rb, if I was the rb breaking up the LL/Kirari fight he would have mad respect was very funny.

We have very different mindsets towards scum fyi

@Tuxedo

Firstly, read The Art of War and an overview of military strategy (or "On War") by Von Clasuewitz. Both are strangely applicable to mafia (in the later, the theory that military campaigns can only be planned to a certain degree due to "friction" is identical to the reality that scum cannot bank on making long term plans due to changes in thread sentiment)

Some saucy Mao would help too.

Back to mafia and the actual question:

I think the best thing as both alignment (scum tips) is to separate alignment from rational for a moment when someone makes a long post calling you scum. If you can fight the logic directly, then it doesnt matter if it is coming from town or scum. Look for short comings, absent remarks, contradictions, etc. One that could of been used here (since we know HEM was mafia) was his post where he agreed to a 3b lynched, yet pushed kirari over it and I had said it felt like a natural progression. Once you figure out any holes in the logic, present them. You could try to find errors in a person's progression, but when there is a large case its typically that long because there is a break in progression anyways. Consider Kathos, or the timing of the case, as well. Is it coming out at a time where it would highly benefit scum to push someone hard (antibussing/chainsaw defense for example). Try not to worry about alignment, although it's easier said than done. Once you got that done, then you can move to reading the alignement.

If you are town, consider if the contradictions are explainable. Other townies are not autocorrect machines and are bound to make mistakes. Do any feel as an attempt to cast wide doubt on a slot rather than standing as an semi objective reason someone is scum? If there is leaps in logic, the best bet is to question them. Break it apart and grill them. Their follow up responses tend to show more since they have less time to prepare the presentination and logic of their posts.

If you are scum, DO NOT DIRECTLY DISCREDIT THEM. That is the worse thing you can do. Your goal is not to get them lynched (yet), rather, it's to use their case as an opportunity to push your agenda. Other people will read the case regardless of your discrediting, and since there is no counter logic from you, will tend to agree with it. Even if they dont, you still have one townie who will become tunneled insanely hard on you with actual reasoning.

Instead, one way of handing is to find someone who the logic applies to but the author didnt push for some reason. Approach it in the same question oritentent counter remark like I propose town would after you fight the logic with a small twist. Your questions will be geared to forcing the author to admit that someone else is scummy. Slowly pull the net closer and closer with each question until they explode and look terrible in the thread or actually agrees and pushes that person while clearing you.

Additionally, if there are no flipped PRs, reread the case after the beginning counter-questioning. If there are large gaps in logic, they probably are an Invest PR trying to hide a successful red check on you. Your goal now is to lynch this man hard by any means. 1v1 one him, stopping any further associative reads. You will die, it's now a matter of getting the most mileage out if your limited life span by getting claimed TPR lynched. Question the set up, try to draw out other claims, breadcrumb that you are a cop in the questions before they actually claim. If you get them lynched, jam up the thread the next day.

No case is "air tight", only our gut reactions make them look impossible to refute. There are certainly strong cases, but even those can get dismantled by proper play.

[HoldenGolden]

Those threads were really illuminating. Sorry I handled your accusations poorly Holden, as stated I kind of spent a day being stunned by it. What do you think the best course of action would have been regarding it?

Also, I too really loved Clidd's playstyle. Made the analysis very fun and engaging, I wonder how they play scum like that?

And dont apologize! Being the target of a long ass post when it's based on factors out of your control (cli2d play) is hard. That's why fighting logic to logic rather than who is scum works better. Even with that said, it's hard to remove all emotional gut reactions to something like that. Smile, take notes, and move on more knowledgeable. If you do that, than no mafia game will be a losing game.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Thank you, this game really has taught me a lot. It was fun to boot, I know there were some stressful times before the replacements, but my time here there was a good balance of game solving and everyone just sort of joking around and having a good time. I look forward to playing with you all again.

[3bounty]

Ah, gg guys. Well played HEM.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Well played 3bounty.

[PenguinPower]