Newbie 2004: Trash Panada Hour. Redux! GAME OVER

[lilith2013]

That was @ ironcat

VOTE: ironcat

[iamironcat]

#27 - Lilith "saved" fish from themselves in the RVS stage
#46 - Feathers seems to get quite an early feel from votato being town
#83 - feathers says they're VT and votato says why they think they're town #115
#92 - Freddie being paranoid about gibus's RVS - town vibe
#98 - votato generally being helpful - town vibe as explained by feathers in #111
#117 - feathers also being paranoid and talks about Lilith in the suspect list
#119 & 124 - Freddie talks about Lilith "protecting ironcat" and spelling out their suspect about lilith
#127 - Lilith talks about wanting to get out of RVS asap which is agreed by town as a mafia move
#140 - I say Fred is budding me up with Lilith which feels like something scum would do, I also wanted to figure out about coming out of rvs
#144 - gibus is convinced that either Lilith or Freddie is town
#148 - I set up bait of "if I get NK'd investigate Lilith" to test gibus theory
#153 - gibus claim quicksolve - Lilith, fish and bass, explains their solve in #178 and #213
#157 - a list of people I suspect in order of scummiest to least, also talked about not seeing much from fish in #158. List explained in #189
#190 - from gibus quicksolve, I deduced that Freddie might be town and voted for Lilith and updated the list in #192
#197 - fish talks about feathers defending + voted for votato
#198 - votato talks about possible masons in the game
#201 - feathers pretty much described me in a nutshell
#204 - fish seems to have taken the bait to my "investigate Lilith if I get nk"
#208 - fish talks about gibus suspecting active people despite I was considered "lurking" before that
#218 - I briefly explained my reasons behind my bait as well as #219
#221 - fish says I'm psychoanalysing him and psychoanalyse me for being "concerned with how I appear to people".
#224 - fish wants me lynched regardless of my alignment
#234 - gibus suspects copycat and votato are masons
#236 - copykat points out why they think votato is town
#224 - I suspect lilth and fish as scum
#257 - copykat suspects me and fish as scum lovers who broke up and points out in the next post that scum is interested to find for masons
#274 - copykat votes gibus for a reasonable reason of how scum could slip while guessing who masons are
#278 - feathers tries to prevent a bandwagon
#283 - bass feels that kat is mercenary and explains why in #291 & #318
#293 - feathers talks about how bass is doing what he accuses copy kat of (he seems to be jumping from a full scum team guess to a full move off the same guess too quickly for my liking.)
#295 - votato talks about voting copykat
#316 - votato pairs me up with copykat and says that copykat is willing to kill ANYONE in #324 and does not see any merit in copykat's vote on gibus scumslipping
#341 - i pointed out how the votes moved from gibus to copykat. Points out how votato and bass are taking the leads on votes. talked about how i scumslipped in an early game by pointing out who i suspect to be masons.
#345 - freddie's reads
#351 - lilith points out how votato isnt afraid to push off people's potential scumread on them and points out gibus rvs as "scary" in #353
#356 - feathers talks about the experienced people moving their vote away from gibus
#368 - my town reads excluding fish
#372 - lilith joins on the wagon for copykat with the cheap reason of the gibus slip
#387 - fish suggesting people to ask bass about him
#391 - gibus tier reads with colours! explained in #445
#394 - lilith "oh i see you're not being an asshole to me, that's good. you can be an asshole to anyone, not just me (confirmed in #448)" despite originally talking about fish bad playstyle in the game in #389.
#413 - copykat asks "why would scum!me pass on the opportunity to vote gibus for calling out masons?", + "when I try to interact with the people voting for me and provide explanations they are all but ignored." lilith answers in #416
#415 - I ask town what would they do if copykat is scum or not, no answers
#429 - kat ties me up with fish (sounds kinky when i say it doesn't it)
#437 - gibus points out why the bus from me to fish wouldn't work and thinks either one of us is town
#441 - lilith jumps on the opportunity on the putting me up for bussing fish
#445 - gibus talks about his suspicion on lilith and bass which i concur in #447
#446 - feathers talks about their suspicion of how defensive fish is and how "I'm doing something but I can't say" as seen in #397
#455 - i briefly break down my suspicion on fish and talked about my idea of drawing out scum in #460. also missed out that mafia is able to talk in the day. reads in #461
#468 - fish points my idea to draw out scum might not work and then talks about his superior playstyle in #473 and #484. joins lilith on the idea of me bussing
#477 - gibus reads on fishy
#487 - meta fish post and post counts in #488 . also his town reads in #491
#494 - i point out on how fish is trying to set me up for not knowing about mafia day chat
#497 onwards - lilith tries to say i'm onto her for no reason
#506 - fish meta post on votato and will only talk about something votato is doing "later"
#515 - votato finally gives her reasons for voting copykat (i think it was feathers who was calling votato her)
#516 - lilith ignores that i had been talking about fish as well (nice distancing) and jumps on the votato analysis of copykat
#521 - copykat "both votato and lillith say we are better of lynching town than scum day one"

[lilith2013]

I don’t have any completed towngames in the past 4 years. Do you want some of my towngames from when I played before?

sure. i guess you just dont roll town since returning?

copy: thats not a good attitude. in this game, people are gonna suspect you and vote you. most of the time theyll be wrong to do so. but giving up doesnt solve anything.

G&R is my only completed game since returning. Obviously I can’t send you any other games since they would be ongoing.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=66863
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=65480

[iamironcat]

Anyhow, this analysis got me sure of my scum reads. Lilith and Fish.

Lilith cheaply jumps on any "leads" she can find. Such as the copykat slip and how I'm "bussing" fishyfriend. It's clear that her playstyle is scum.

Fish has shown themselves as town but thanks Lilith, it's clear that their interaction shows he's in her chat as well.

That being said, copy kat is town and so are the rest apart from these two that I've mentioned.

[votato]

You keep saying you scumread me and you don’t offer any reasons related to actual content that I have posted. You don’t ask me questions about my thoughts or try to engage - it feels like you’re trying to keep your distance and not directly interact with me even though I’m one of your strongest scumreads. Town strongly scumreading someone wouldn’t do that.

you arent one of my strongest scumreads. its just gut. its probably just bias from GNR.

[lilith2013]

That was @ironcat, not you votato

[iamironcat]

Btw, +1 scum points for her moving her vote over to me from kat. Pro scum move!
Like kat, I look forward to being lynched or even NKd

It's my night now, will be back in 9+ hours or so if town doesn't jump on that bandwagon. When my alignment turns up, look at my wall of text.

[lilith2013]

If you’re still only scumreading me for things that other people have done, your read is really stale and doesn’t show genuine progression or attempt to solve the game, because the lack of votes yet proliferation of scumreads on me should be suspicious to you if you’re town. Seems like you’ve basically decided on your scumreads and are making the evidence to fit the read.

[lilith2013]

Half the things you said about me in your post are wrong and don’t actually reflect what happened. You haven’t engaged with me directly to sort me whatsoever. You respond to me when I directly ask you questions, you respond to my posts disproportionately, but you have made no attempt to progress your read by seeking out my motivations or understanding my perspective. I asked you if you think scum blatantly defend each other, because I think that’s faulty reasoning, and you deflected by saying that actually multiple people have called me scum and that’s why you scumread me.

Scumpoints for voting the person I think is scum? Ok sure.

[CopyKat]

I'm taking a break for a bit. I've got a couple meetings this afternoon and I need to let my blood pressure come back down

[Formerfish]

Spoiler:

#27 - Lilith "saved" fish from themselves in the RVS stage
#46 - Feathers seems to get quite an early feel from votato being town
#83 - feathers says they're VT and votato says why they think they're town #115
#92 - Freddie being paranoid about gibus's RVS - town vibe
#98 - votato generally being helpful - town vibe as explained by feathers in #111
#117 - feathers also being paranoid and talks about Lilith in the suspect list
#119 & 124 - Freddie talks about Lilith "protecting ironcat" and spelling out their suspect about lilith
#127 - Lilith talks about wanting to get out of RVS asap which is agreed by town as a mafia move
#140 - I say Fred is budding me up with Lilith which feels like something scum would do, I also wanted to figure out about coming out of rvs
#144 - gibus is convinced that either Lilith or Freddie is town
#148 - I set up bait of "if I get NK'd investigate Lilith" to test gibus theory
#153 - gibus claim quicksolve - Lilith, fish and bass, explains their solve in #178 and #213
#157 - a list of people I suspect in order of scummiest to least, also talked about not seeing much from fish in #158. List explained in #189
#190 - from gibus quicksolve, I deduced that Freddie might be town and voted for Lilith and updated the list in #192
#197 - fish talks about feathers defending + voted for votato
#198 - votato talks about possible masons in the game
#201 - feathers pretty much described me in a nutshell
#204 - fish seems to have taken the bait to my "investigate Lilith if I get nk"
#208 - fish talks about gibus suspecting active people despite I was considered "lurking" before that
#218 - I briefly explained my reasons behind my bait as well as #219
#221 - fish says I'm psychoanalysing him and psychoanalyse me for being "concerned with how I appear to people".
#224 - fish wants me lynched regardless of my alignment
#234 - gibus suspects copycat and votato are masons
#236 - copykat points out why they think votato is town
#224 - I suspect lilth and fish as scum
#257 - copykat suspects me and fish as scum lovers who broke up and points out in the next post that scum is interested to find for masons
#274 - copykat votes gibus for a reasonable reason of how scum could slip while guessing who masons are
#278 - feathers tries to prevent a bandwagon
#283 - bass feels that kat is mercenary and explains why in #291 & #318
#293 - feathers talks about how bass is doing what he accuses copy kat of (he seems to be jumping from a full scum team guess to a full move off the same guess too quickly for my liking.)
#295 - votato talks about voting copykat
#316 - votato pairs me up with copykat and says that copykat is willing to kill ANYONE in #324 and does not see any merit in copykat's vote on gibus scumslipping
#341 - i pointed out how the votes moved from gibus to copykat. Points out how votato and bass are taking the leads on votes. talked about how i scumslipped in an early game by pointing out who i suspect to be masons.
#345 - freddie's reads
#351 - lilith points out how votato isnt afraid to push off people's potential scumread on them and points out gibus rvs as "scary" in #353
#356 - feathers talks about the experienced people moving their vote away from gibus
#368 - my town reads excluding fish
#372 - lilith joins on the wagon for copykat with the cheap reason of the gibus slip
#387 - fish suggesting people to ask bass about him
#391 - gibus tier reads with colours! explained in #445
#394 - lilith "oh i see you're not being an asshole to me, that's good. you can be an asshole to anyone, not just me (confirmed in #448)" despite originally talking about fish bad playstyle in the game in #389.
#413 - copykat asks "why would scum!me pass on the opportunity to vote gibus for calling out masons?", + "when I try to interact with the people voting for me and provide explanations they are all but ignored." lilith answers in #416
#415 - I ask town what would they do if copykat is scum or not, no answers
#429 - kat ties me up with fish (sounds kinky when i say it doesn't it)
#437 - gibus points out why the bus from me to fish wouldn't work and thinks either one of us is town
#441 - lilith jumps on the opportunity on the putting me up for bussing fish
#445 - gibus talks about his suspicion on lilith and bass which i concur in #447
#446 - feathers talks about their suspicion of how defensive fish is and how "I'm doing something but I can't say" as seen in #397
#455 - i briefly break down my suspicion on fish and talked about my idea of drawing out scum in #460. also missed out that mafia is able to talk in the day. reads in #461
#468 - fish points my idea to draw out scum might not work and then talks about his superior playstyle in #473 and #484. joins lilith on the idea of me bussing
#477 - gibus reads on fishy
#487 - meta fish post and post counts in #488 . also his town reads in #491
#494 - i point out on how fish is trying to set me up for not knowing about mafia day chat
#497 onwards - lilith tries to say i'm onto her for no reason
#506 - fish meta post on votato and will only talk about something votato is doing "later"
#515 - votato finally gives her reasons for voting copykat (i think it was feathers who was calling votato her)
#516 - lilith ignores that i had been talking about fish as well (nice distancing) and jumps on the votato analysis of copykat
#521 - copykat "both votato and lillith say we are better of lynching town than scum day one"

Most of this wall of text is just a synopsis of that posts. There is very little analysis of what any of it means. You've wasted your own time for writing it, and ours for having to read it.

You're a trash player and it's time to start a trash fire

[feathers]

Wow. I come to check on the posts and people have really begun doing deep dives.. Getting a bit lost in the back and forth, going to have to really start rereading the Isos to figure out what’s going on with who and if I can make any good reads at all.

Early feelings - I kind of suspect Fish. He also seems experienced but compared to someone like votato, who’s asking constructive questions and giving advice, he’s really different.. picking a lot of fights and being really defensive about it. The whole "I'm doing something but I can't say" bit really sounds like trying to hide something especially since Brass couldn't back it up.
Seems like a lot of people are on CopyKat's case rn but I haven't seen a lot of suspicious things coming from him personally? The gibus 4/5 vote thing is the main one but we haven't had a vote count for a while so I could see it being a mistake. I need to read more to sort out the rest.
I'm kind of conflicted on Lilith. On the one hand she's been pretty helpful after coming back from the break. On the other hand some of her interactions seem weird. I'm going to have to read more as well and maybe ask some questions.
I still don't know about Freddie and Brass.

Hey hey still catching up on reading and taking notes so this might change.. but my read on Fish and CopyKat kinda flipped heh.

I was really starting to read Fish as mafia.. until I read his post about Slayer Gambit Now it makes more sense, I thought it might be weird for mafia to be so openly aggressive even if it is anti-town. On the bright side I now have a whole wiki's worth of Gambits to read about.
I'm more sus of CopyKat now, part of it is for their Gibus vote thing seeing Votato and Lilith's explanations, part of it is for their response including the "give up" thing which kinda feels like a last ditch effort to convince people to not suspect them when their defense failed. Not voting now though because I don't want to put them at 4/5 votes and because I need to reread more still.
I still don't know about lilith.. My gut says she's town right now. I'm not seeing anything that really make me think she's mafia, the thing with Fish felt more like a natural response to Fish being Fish than anything. And she's been offering helpful explanations when votato didn't do it and asking good questions. But it seems like a lot of people think she's mafia rn from their feels. Could people help me see what I'm not seeing, explain in more detail why they think she's mafia?

Still idk about Freddie but I might be trusting Brass more now. Need to read and take notes more, will be back later.

[feathers]

Oh for my last question I meant besides Ironcat. He said a lot already but I want to hear from someone else's perspective. Sorry Ironcat, no offense, I think you're a townsperson, you can just be kinda paranoid at times.

[brassherald]

I'm cool with where my vote is. I feel like there's lots of noise from Kat but not much else. Feeling good about it.

[Formerfish]

I'm cool with where my vote is. I feel like there's lots of noise from Kat but not much else. Feeling good about it.

Ok, you care to comment on anything else, or are you good with that being your contribution given everything else that has been going on?

[brassherald]

I'm cool with where my vote is. I feel like there's lots of noise from Kat but not much else. Feeling good about it.

Ok, you care to comment on anything else, or are you good with that being your contribution given everything else that has been going on?

I feel like people might have been a little too fast to trust Feathers. Still not sure about you.

Ironcat and Lilli is my best guess at a TvT argument if there is one.

Votato I'm comfortable saying he's either town or got me pocketed hard.

I don't know about Freddie at all legitimately forgot he was in the game

[votato]

I'm cool with where my vote is. I feel like there's lots of noise from Kat but not much else. Feeling good about it.

Ok, you care to comment on anything else, or are you good with that being your contribution given everything else that has been going on?

I feel like people might have been a little too fast to trust Feathers. Still not sure about you.

Ironcat and Lilli is my best guess at a TvT argument if there is one.

Votato I'm comfortable saying he's either town or got me pocketed hard.

I don't know about Freddie at all legitimately forgot he was in the game

dont worry, im definitely town babe, im not trying to manipulate you at all. are we still on for later tonight?

[Formerfish]

are we still on for later tonight?

Cheating on me already, tisk tisk. That fake horn is mine.

[votato]

the horn is 100% real

[Formerfish]

the horn is 100% real

I can literally see the string holding it on your head. I may be a fish, but I have eyes.

[brassherald]

My girlfriend does have Aunt Flo so, yeah, for sure

[votato]

My girlfriend does have Aunt Flo so, yeah, for sure

BS. this is the internet. there are no girls, and no one has a girlfriend.

[feathers]

Hold on Fish I literally didn't notice votato's string until you pointed it out heh. Would've been completely bamboozled by this charmer.

VOTE:ATO

[votato]

it isnt string, its just that my horn is bedazzled. and its a horn, not a carrot. dont listen to the fake news media telling you its a carrot.

[lilith2013]

Ironcat and Lilli is my best guess at a TvT argument if there is one.

Can you explain why you think this?