In post 2773, Ame wrote:I think process of elimination is leading me to PB since my reasoning for classifying them as town is the flimsiest. And the push on Knight came a little too late I think since it was after I proposed the capture Knight/gift strategy. Thinking about it, that post mastina made about putting PB in the town pile was kind of strange as well. This is stream of conscious.
I think scum!PB would have hammered Raya when he had the chance. Remember how hard you were pushing him to hammer Raya? Why didn’t he?
Also, he looks like an obvious Mastina pocket. Mastina votes him leader for what - about 5 seconds before switching to Hectic?
In post 2770, Ame wrote:I don't really trust town slips from strong players. For example, mastina also town slipped. That being said, I do think Ali's tone in general and their willingness to be lynched is town indicative.
Mastina’s looked fake though.
Ali's looked fake too.
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.
In post 2, Professor Moriarty wrote:
IV. Actions
This game contains two types of night actions: standard actions and bonus actions. Unless otherwise specified, all actions are standard actions. Each player may carry out a maximum of one standard action and any number of bonus actions in one night,
unless they Train, in which case they may take no other actions (standard or bonus)
.
The Mafia factional kill is a bonus action
; this in effect means that all Mafia members are multitasking, as they may carry out the Mafia kill at the same time as taking a personal action.
Players may also have passive abilities, which are abilities that always trigger and cannot be roleblocked or interfered with.
This game also contains day actions. Any number of day actions can be taken during a day, but each day action can only be taken once per day unless otherwise specified.
In post 2770, Ame wrote:I don't really trust town slips from strong players. For example, mastina also town slipped. That being said, I do think Ali's tone in general and their willingness to be lynched is town indicative.
Mastina’s looked fake though.
Ali's looked fake too.
If it was fake, then why am I the first one to mention it? I don’t think anyone else has iirc?
I'd trust PB as a leader over spring for what it's worth--not because I think spring is suspicious (spring's probably town), but because I trust PB to make better use out of being the leader than spring.
In post 174, Hectic wrote:Only if you share it with me, Pink Ball. We should ration leadership out.
That said, would trust Hectic with leader even more than PB. PB, love ya to death, but you're not as obvtown as Hectic is and I got the sense that Hectic is more mechanically-minded than you so like. Hectic > PB > spring imo for leadership.
If PB is scum here, what exactly is the point of these posts?
There really is no purpose for her doing that to a buddy. If there is, I’m not seeing it.
Don't want to be devil's advocate here but I still think you shouldn't put much weight on D1's associations given that there was no lynch mechanic that day
"Your intentions are not defined by how things went, but how things could've gone." (Ball, 2019)
In post 2786, Pink Ball wrote:Don't want to be devil's advocate here but I still think you shouldn't put much weight on D1's associations given that there was no lynch mechanic that day
That's what I've been saying all along!
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.
In post 2201, Pink Ball wrote:The thing is, I don't consider spring's interaction with Farkset as a bus 'cause there was no lynch mechanic at that point of the game, so it was a great time to distance. That could be very coordinated. I think they would've planned to flip later in the game tho, not as soon as Fark did.
But yeah Occam's razor yaddah yaddah
Yeah I know that's what you've been saying, I've been saying it too, but I stand by my Occam's razor opinion
"Your intentions are not defined by how things went, but how things could've gone." (Ball, 2019)
In post 2786, Pink Ball wrote:Don't want to be devil's advocate here but I still think you shouldn't put much weight on D1's associations given that there was no lynch mechanic that day
In many games, D1 is where scum tend to make the most mistakes, which is why it’s usually a good idea to reread it later. For example, I was sure Knight was probably lying about his XP claim but it was only upon rereading that I realized that Hectic was probably telling the truth about being sabotaged and Titus is obvtown, so I feel even more confident than ever about that.
That's not what I was trying to point out. I said in this particular game it's not really worth looking at D1 associations because there was no lynch mechanic, so I would put more weight on D2 onwards.
"Your intentions are not defined by how things went, but how things could've gone." (Ball, 2019)
In post 2201, Pink Ball wrote:The thing is, I don't consider spring's interaction with Farkset as a bus 'cause there was no lynch mechanic at that point of the game, so it was a great time to distance. That could be very coordinated. I think they would've planned to flip later in the game tho, not as soon as Fark did.
But yeah Occam's razor yaddah yaddah
Yeah I know that's what you've been saying, I've been saying it too, but I stand by my Occam's razor opinion
If I didn’t think spring was that insistent on being town leader and had Farkset not flipped scum, I would have never replaced into that slot.
Would town really act like this? Have you ever seen an argument like this coming from town - that you found two supposed scum when it`s early on day 1 and they don`t have said they agreed with you???
In post 191, momo wrote:HURT: Springlullaby
Scummiest attempt to get townread I have seen in a while. I shouldn’t need to explain this vote and won’t because I’m about to sleep, but I’ll write up my thoughts tmmrw after I meta dive spring.
Should be noted that Hectic is taking a very distinct approach to this game...playing in a highly questioning manner. Haven’t played with him before, but I think his slot will prove to be readable by comparing the questioning tone with his recent games.
Also WHY ARE YOU STILL VOTING NEIGHBORIZER???!!!
Why scum WHYYYYY?
If they think that hectic is scum ... why are they acting like this?
In post 305, springlullaby wrote:^Day 1 is a no brainer for quest, it is totally protown:
- Low XP pool
- Low accuracy for sabotage
Risk/Reward is win for town.
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU VOTE ME THE MOST AWESOME LEADER ON EARTH
Translate: I lie and am ad hominem and make bullshit cases but want immunity on flip because spring is gonna flip blue.
<chorus>
Farkscum bell, Farkscum bell
Farkscum all the way
Oh! what scum it is to ride
In a scummity scum open sleigh,
Hey!
</end chorus>
And then it begins. I will not quote the rest but there is much bullshit spam from this point naming farkran "farkscum" without really going much into specifics. But there is absolutely no scumhunt attempt behind it. It looks like they actually want to make this a 1v1 but for which ends? Let`s go to Farkran now...
In post 888, Farkset wrote:No. This is what you forced upon me, the false dichotomy that you've been talking about but was never there in the first place. The true dichotomy is "people who behaved weirdly around springlullaby" VS "people who had reasons behind their behavior around springlullaby". And it's different than what you said there.
having the scumteam side with or against springlullaby
2) those who are
siding against her
(and the majority) are
pushing a very easy lhf
3) those who are
siding with her
will be
pocketing her
hard because she is the one with surface reads/reactions
In post 656, Farkset wrote:There are people whiteknighting him for very little reason and people who instead sheep the attackers. Depending on her flip i think
we can identify if she was being TMIed town or chainsaw defended as scum.
In post 892, Ame wrote:Like you changed it two times. First it was scum going after LHF vs scum pocketing her (literally the whole point of your original post was this), then it was to scum TMIing town vs scum chainsaw defending scum. And now it's people who are weird vs people who are not. You changed as you went along.
Here are more examples of you playing politically/with optics in mind btw:
(1) I don't think i ever towncased springlullaby though.
I think there is a fracture around her slot, which makes her flip significative, not more likely to be any of the two - if i had to talk about that post alone.
I think it's more likely to flip red though. My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction, a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering, and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.
-Farkran
pedit: oh shit, i had started writing this like one hour ago, forgot the tab open, and now i'm like 20 posts behind. This was a response to Ame's 585
(2) Jemaine, what are your actual intentions? I might sometimes overlook detail but i am trying my best to exchange my views with others to figure out the best action by working with them. Is this your help?
Here you pull old farkran post to prove your point that he is unskilled...
You expect everyone to sheep you in Neighborizering and No capturing but you disappear instead of debating it. It is obvious that we don't follow you, when you never speak about perks of your plan. Do you hope that discrediting every other idea will make us pick yours out of elimination?
~Kerset
(3) Chloe, i scumlean you - i have no issues with you as a person. I feel the need to correct wrong opinions and providing my own, but i don't want you to stop talking.
As you can see, i'm not immune to mistakes though.
In post 760, Farkset wrote:The dichotomy isn't described by that last sentence - i mean, those would be the scummy people who interacted poorly around spring. The true dichotomy is wk vs attack, and those can be sorted by spring flip.
Could you rephrase this? I don't know what it's saying. Who specifically would you scum read from Spring's flip based on the way she has been treated so far. Earlier you implied that you would scum read me and Lady upon a town flip. Is this the case? This is the third time I'm asking this btw.
As for the rpg, i want to see what hectic ends up concluding. And it's a fun read.
I'm referring to your 556. Did you mention Hectics cyoa thing somewhere?
(4)
Yes, sorry.
If springlullaby flips town, those who attacked her hard have higher scum equity and i'll be more incline to believe her most confident defenders have been TMIing her. If she flips scum, the strong attackers have less scum equity and i would look into those who attacked her attackers. Rarely scum do whiteknight their partners this early in the game - if they go about defending them, it's usually more subtle, such as a low-to-moderate chainsaw defense tactic.
That said, this does not guarantee a confident read on anyone, and currently my main reads are that springlullaby and conchorde are independently scummy for their dayplay. Lady Chloe, and
(5) to a lesser extent you
for wanting springlullaby as a leader, are dependent on her flip.
Also 556 is from Kerset, i think he's asking what RPG mechanics are you referring to, which would be xp and levelup.
-Farkran
In post 860, Farkset wrote:@ame
The difference between you and chloe is that i scumlean chloe indipendently of springlullaby.
If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe,
(6)
but i would likely townlean you
. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?
I admit that i dislike springlul playstyle as either alignment, but i'm trying to analyze the slot impartially. I have no such distaste for chloe though, even if i still scumlean her.
Also raya, don't you think that scum would be able to fake being a mediator, wrt chloe 848? If you read that tonally, does it strike you as town as Pine's introductory plea? I think they ask for similar things but are immensely different tonewise.
Last but not least, i support hectic or raya for quest leader, as an alternative to myself.
-Farkran
Line 1
: "I don't think" is hedgey. You did or you didn't
Line 2
: LAMIST (this one by Ker)
Line 3
: Unprovoked damage control
Line 4
: Unecessarily apologetic.
Line 5
: Backtracking/Damage control.
Line 6
: Further Damage control.
The difference between post 553 and 656 is extreme
and points to scum forgetting their precise motivations.
In post 893, Ame wrote:Lastly, your progression on Spring is off. You're insistent that they are the scummiest person in the universe and that it's absurd for anyone to town read her, despite the fact that you were beginning to town read her in 436. What's even more jarring is the fact that you portrayed yourself as being "convinced" by Hectic in this post, when he was just using the same reasoning you used to convince
Additionally, these were your reasons for scumreading Spring at one point (604):
I think it's more likely to flip red though.
(1)
My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction,
(2)
a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering,
(3)
and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.
1
This is weak as you had already determined it was null until you were "reconvinced" 291, 384.
2
This is based on the case you made in 454, which I find to be the scummiest post in the game, and one of the silliest things to scumread someone for, due to all the assumptions you're making and the fact that Spring's response to your question prior disproved your point.
3
As I've pointed out, Spring was saying "in 1 XP," meaning she already has XP as the rules say and the 1 XP from leader will allow her to upgrade. Additionally, the way she claimed off-the-cuff was townie.
So the fact that you have been so convinced that she is scum doesn't seem legitimate, as the reasoning presented is severely deficient, especially point 2 which was the justification you used to vote her.
So, what does this all mean?
This post will clear it all up:
This doesn`t sound hostile at all. Spring almost instantly retracted the claim "in 1 xp" even if the rules wouldn`t forbid it(1 xp from the beginning->you need 1 more xp...), though; extremely out of character for what spring is trying to emulate(would they really re-check based on that flimsy claim without any added reasoning, "that they don`t believe it"?
But if Farkran
told them to retract that in their scumchat
...
That`s right. No one of them has to hold back because there WILL be a scum flip at the end. This is staged.
Springlullaby vs Farkran is SCUM VS SCUM!
What about this post?
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.
In post 2791, Pink Ball wrote:That's not what I was trying to point out. I said in this particular game it's not really worth looking at D1 associations because there was no lynch mechanic, so I would put more weight on D2 onwards.
My point is still valid based on how insistent spring was on being town leader. Like Ali has said, e doesn’t see em being scum with Farkset.
Now, had Farkset not voted to capture spring, I probably would not have wanted this slot. Scum!Farset doesn’t involuntarily capture scum!spring. Maybe there are some scum players who would do this but Farkran is definitely not one of them.
Would town really act like this? Have you ever seen an argument like this coming from town - that you found two supposed scum when it`s early on day 1 and they don`t have said they agreed with you???
In post 191, momo wrote:HURT: Springlullaby
Scummiest attempt to get townread I have seen in a while. I shouldn’t need to explain this vote and won’t because I’m about to sleep, but I’ll write up my thoughts tmmrw after I meta dive spring.
Should be noted that Hectic is taking a very distinct approach to this game...playing in a highly questioning manner. Haven’t played with him before, but I think his slot will prove to be readable by comparing the questioning tone with his recent games.
Also WHY ARE YOU STILL VOTING NEIGHBORIZER???!!!
Why scum WHYYYYY?
If they think that hectic is scum ... why are they acting like this?
In post 305, springlullaby wrote:^Day 1 is a no brainer for quest, it is totally protown:
- Low XP pool
- Low accuracy for sabotage
Risk/Reward is win for town.
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU VOTE ME THE MOST AWESOME LEADER ON EARTH
Translate: I lie and am ad hominem and make bullshit cases but want immunity on flip because spring is gonna flip blue.
<chorus>
Farkscum bell, Farkscum bell
Farkscum all the way
Oh! what scum it is to ride
In a scummity scum open sleigh,
Hey!
</end chorus>
And then it begins. I will not quote the rest but there is much bullshit spam from this point naming farkran "farkscum" without really going much into specifics. But there is absolutely no scumhunt attempt behind it. It looks like they actually want to make this a 1v1 but for which ends? Let`s go to Farkran now...
In post 888, Farkset wrote:No. This is what you forced upon me, the false dichotomy that you've been talking about but was never there in the first place. The true dichotomy is "people who behaved weirdly around springlullaby" VS "people who had reasons behind their behavior around springlullaby". And it's different than what you said there.
having the scumteam side with or against springlullaby
2) those who are
siding against her
(and the majority) are
pushing a very easy lhf
3) those who are
siding with her
will be
pocketing her
hard because she is the one with surface reads/reactions
In post 656, Farkset wrote:There are people whiteknighting him for very little reason and people who instead sheep the attackers. Depending on her flip i think
we can identify if she was being TMIed town or chainsaw defended as scum.
In post 892, Ame wrote:Like you changed it two times. First it was scum going after LHF vs scum pocketing her (literally the whole point of your original post was this), then it was to scum TMIing town vs scum chainsaw defending scum. And now it's people who are weird vs people who are not. You changed as you went along.
Here are more examples of you playing politically/with optics in mind btw:
(1) I don't think i ever towncased springlullaby though.
I think there is a fracture around her slot, which makes her flip significative, not more likely to be any of the two - if i had to talk about that post alone.
I think it's more likely to flip red though. My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction, a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering, and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.
-Farkran
pedit: oh shit, i had started writing this like one hour ago, forgot the tab open, and now i'm like 20 posts behind. This was a response to Ame's 585
(2) Jemaine, what are your actual intentions? I might sometimes overlook detail but i am trying my best to exchange my views with others to figure out the best action by working with them. Is this your help?
Here you pull old farkran post to prove your point that he is unskilled...
You expect everyone to sheep you in Neighborizering and No capturing but you disappear instead of debating it. It is obvious that we don't follow you, when you never speak about perks of your plan. Do you hope that discrediting every other idea will make us pick yours out of elimination?
~Kerset
(3) Chloe, i scumlean you - i have no issues with you as a person. I feel the need to correct wrong opinions and providing my own, but i don't want you to stop talking.
As you can see, i'm not immune to mistakes though.
In post 760, Farkset wrote:The dichotomy isn't described by that last sentence - i mean, those would be the scummy people who interacted poorly around spring. The true dichotomy is wk vs attack, and those can be sorted by spring flip.
Could you rephrase this? I don't know what it's saying. Who specifically would you scum read from Spring's flip based on the way she has been treated so far. Earlier you implied that you would scum read me and Lady upon a town flip. Is this the case? This is the third time I'm asking this btw.
As for the rpg, i want to see what hectic ends up concluding. And it's a fun read.
I'm referring to your 556. Did you mention Hectics cyoa thing somewhere?
(4)
Yes, sorry.
If springlullaby flips town, those who attacked her hard have higher scum equity and i'll be more incline to believe her most confident defenders have been TMIing her. If she flips scum, the strong attackers have less scum equity and i would look into those who attacked her attackers. Rarely scum do whiteknight their partners this early in the game - if they go about defending them, it's usually more subtle, such as a low-to-moderate chainsaw defense tactic.
That said, this does not guarantee a confident read on anyone, and currently my main reads are that springlullaby and conchorde are independently scummy for their dayplay. Lady Chloe, and
(5) to a lesser extent you
for wanting springlullaby as a leader, are dependent on her flip.
Also 556 is from Kerset, i think he's asking what RPG mechanics are you referring to, which would be xp and levelup.
-Farkran
In post 860, Farkset wrote:@ame
The difference between you and chloe is that i scumlean chloe indipendently of springlullaby.
If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe,
(6)
but i would likely townlean you
. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?
I admit that i dislike springlul playstyle as either alignment, but i'm trying to analyze the slot impartially. I have no such distaste for chloe though, even if i still scumlean her.
Also raya, don't you think that scum would be able to fake being a mediator, wrt chloe 848? If you read that tonally, does it strike you as town as Pine's introductory plea? I think they ask for similar things but are immensely different tonewise.
Last but not least, i support hectic or raya for quest leader, as an alternative to myself.
-Farkran
Line 1
: "I don't think" is hedgey. You did or you didn't
Line 2
: LAMIST (this one by Ker)
Line 3
: Unprovoked damage control
Line 4
: Unecessarily apologetic.
Line 5
: Backtracking/Damage control.
Line 6
: Further Damage control.
The difference between post 553 and 656 is extreme
and points to scum forgetting their precise motivations.
In post 893, Ame wrote:Lastly, your progression on Spring is off. You're insistent that they are the scummiest person in the universe and that it's absurd for anyone to town read her, despite the fact that you were beginning to town read her in 436. What's even more jarring is the fact that you portrayed yourself as being "convinced" by Hectic in this post, when he was just using the same reasoning you used to convince
Additionally, these were your reasons for scumreading Spring at one point (604):
I think it's more likely to flip red though.
(1)
My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction,
(2)
a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering,
(3)
and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.
1
This is weak as you had already determined it was null until you were "reconvinced" 291, 384.
2
This is based on the case you made in 454, which I find to be the scummiest post in the game, and one of the silliest things to scumread someone for, due to all the assumptions you're making and the fact that Spring's response to your question prior disproved your point.
3
As I've pointed out, Spring was saying "in 1 XP," meaning she already has XP as the rules say and the 1 XP from leader will allow her to upgrade. Additionally, the way she claimed off-the-cuff was townie.
So the fact that you have been so convinced that she is scum doesn't seem legitimate, as the reasoning presented is severely deficient, especially point 2 which was the justification you used to vote her.
So, what does this all mean?
This post will clear it all up:
This doesn`t sound hostile at all. Spring almost instantly retracted the claim "in 1 xp" even if the rules wouldn`t forbid it(1 xp from the beginning->you need 1 more xp...), though; extremely out of character for what spring is trying to emulate(would they really re-check based on that flimsy claim without any added reasoning, "that they don`t believe it"?
But if Farkran
told them to retract that in their scumchat
...
That`s right. No one of them has to hold back because there WILL be a scum flip at the end. This is staged.
Springlullaby vs Farkran is SCUM VS SCUM!
What about this post?
What about it? Is it possible I could be wrong on NK15 being scum? Yes, it’s possible but he seems the most likely based on PoE.
In post 2791, Pink Ball wrote:That's not what I was trying to point out. I said in this particular game it's not really worth looking at D1 associations because there was no lynch mechanic, so I would put more weight on D2 onwards.
My point is still valid based on how insistent spring was on being town leader. Like Ali has said, e doesn’t see em being scum with Farkset.
Now, had Farkset not voted to capture spring, I probably would not have wanted this slot. Scum!Farset doesn’t involuntarily capture scum!spring. Maybe there are some scum players who would do this but Farkran is definitely not one of them.
I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about me. That's why I said "devil's advocate". You said "why mastina would say this about a partner" and I replied with "that was on D1"
"Your intentions are not defined by how things went, but how things could've gone." (Ball, 2019)
