Micro 940: A Normal Blitz II - Game Over

[humaneatingmonkey]

Really? "Putting malicious context in my post" is not you accusing me of twisting the meaning of your words? Really?

So is that scum indicative? Am I not correct?

[Hiraki]

Really? "Putting malicious context in my post" is not you accusing me of twisting the meaning of your words? Really?

So is that scum indicative? Am I not correct?

Yeah but I'm not doing that.

[Umlaut]

I am leaning Hiraki as the best choice currently.

Is there a reason you're not voting him then?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay, so if you're not twisting my words and you're interested in what I really mean in my posts, you're going to ask to clarify and not go right straight to putting words in my mouth?

[Madoka]

Umlaut, I do not vote until I am ready to lynch.

[Hiraki]

No - the point of clarification is if something doesn't make sense. Your posts are clear.

[Umlaut]

Okay, I mean that's a weird policy and I think you should change it but that's confirmable if true at least.

[Hoctac]

What a strange sig.

Sorry, carry on

[Hoctac]

(Not yours Umlaut - yours is cool)

[humaneatingmonkey]

First you say this:

I don't understand how townie thinking equates to "how does X see me" which your post implicates.

Which reads to me that I'm conscious of how X see me.

Then your view of the situation evolves to me objectifying my perception as "a town view" to look townie.

I'm sorry, but somewhere along the line your progression lost me?

Also, can't you see a POV where I'm town and I really thought that GeorgeBailey is suspicious in his reaction because I thought it's what scum would do exactly?

[Hiraki]

Your thought process relies on how you are perceived. If you are town, you should not care about how you are perceived. You should care about finding scum. If you are scum, you should care about how you are perceived since it will most likely be the reason you are lynched. Without saying it, you are clearly not looking to find scum as scum. I don't get how any of that contradicts itself. By saying that you are objectifying perception, which was a clarification toward Madoka's point, not yours, I am stating that you care about perception (i.e. it is an object). Townies don't care about how they are perceived. They have no reason to do so.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Putting a dependence on a read on someone else's read isn't something you do as a first option. It's pretty close to the last option.

Do you know enough about my playstyle to know that this is true? Because I listen to my town reads and collect consensus from people — especially since I'm terrible at reads.

[Hoctac]

That sounds like a nice way to play. I should start doing that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Your thought process relies on how you are perceived. If you are town, you should not care about how you are perceived.

Except this isn't even what the post meant. I didn't want to out the masons — plain and simple.

Townies don't care about how they are perceived. They have no reason to do so.

You must at least know that this one isn't true. I worry about my position in any game, town or scum. As town, I don't want to be mislynched. As town PR, I don't want to look like I'm a town PR. I think there's a lot more players who think like this. Your characterization of being town is very simplistic.

For example, Datisi here who self-admits having mental breakdowns when he's being pushed, would you say that he's scum for caring how he's perceived?

[Hoctac]

I want to townread the monkey. I agree with a lot he says, but I'm not sure if they're AI opinions.

[Hiraki]

Putting a dependence on a read on someone else's read isn't something you do as a first option. It's pretty close to the last option.

Do you know enough about my playstyle to know that this is true? Because I listen to my town reads and collect consensus from people — especially since I'm terrible at reads.

Not a good box to open but you did it! Let's examine your take on this town read -

I don't see it really coming from scum!george there given how he did it.

i feel like i knew a different george than you guys so im waiting on shiki on this one. im gonna sheep her meta reads.

hot take: shiki is town

i feel like this is the same shiki in the last blitz game

So at the end of the day, you are using meta from

one

game in order to influence your opinion of one player who does something that you yourself have said that you're not skilled at in order to figure out another game? Sounds lazy or scummy. I pick the later.

Except this isn't even what the post meant. I didn't want to out the masons — plain and simple.

Except that's not what you said and I'd rather take your first statements than your second ones when they don't corroborate very well.

You must at least know that this one isn't true. I worry about my position in any game, town or scum. As town, I don't want to be mislynched. As town PR, I don't want to look like I'm a town PR. I think there's a lot more players who think like this. Your characterization of being town is very simplistic.

Nope. It's driven my games for a very long time now. Your buddy shiki can verify that or if he denies it, I'll do it.

For example, Datisi here who self-admits having mental breakdowns when he's being pushed, would you say that he's scum for caring how he's perceived?

Having a mental breakdown and saying "Oh, I shouldn't say this because it could look bad" are two drastically different things. My latest game I pretty much lost all faith by Day 4. I didn't care how people perceived me then. I cared about finding scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

"Oh, I shouldn't say this because it could look bad"

No one said this.

[Hoctac]

VOTE: GeorgeBailey

GeorgeBailey

[humaneatingmonkey]

So at the end of the day, you are using meta from one game in order to influence your opinion of one player who does something that you yourself have said that you're not skilled at in order to figure out another game? Sounds lazy or scummy. I pick the later.

Do you think meta is something you can lie about without being scumread for it? If shiki is town, she gives valuable information. If shiki is scum, she gives valuable information OR ELSE.

Except that's not what you said and I'd rather take your first statements than your second ones when they don't corroborate very well.

Quote the post that said it.

Nope. It's driven my games for a very long time now. Your buddy shiki can verify that or if he denies it, I'll do it.

YOUR games. Not everybody plays like you do.

Having a mental breakdown and saying "Oh, I shouldn't say this because it could look bad" are two drastically different things. My latest game I pretty much lost all faith by Day 4. I didn't care how people perceived me then. I cared about finding scum.

YOU. Not everybody plays like you do.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Your buddy shiki can verify that or if he denies it, I'll do it.

This is a good demonstration of why I trust shiki's meta even if it's just a townlean and I'm not sure about her alignment.
If she gives correct meta, it's correct meta.
If she lies about meta, then it's alignment indicative and we can scumread her for it.
How are you not seeing why this is good?

[shiki]

Why'd you unvote here?

Also, have you had a look at my meta to see if I'm town?

i was thinking about the votecount and i was kinda townreading datisi (for something i know he is aware is town indicative for him so it was only a slight townread but still) and i wanted to move my vote but it seemed unwise to move it to a mason claim. thus i unvoted.

i get that we could be playing a game in which we woke up on day 2 and there was no nightkill and you claimed doctor and noone counterclaimed that i would probably still entertain other possible explanations. i know its unfair that had georgebailey hardclaimed masons with umlaut in his first post i probably would have simply accepted it and functioned as though they were confirmed town. but even being aware of it i really don't know how to address it at all. i don't even really think that you're the more likely scum of the two of you, but i do think you are the impetus if it is not a true claim. and you are the one that claimed regardless of its truthfulness.

shiki, is Hiraki scum?

i don't know. i think hiraki is generally pretty accurate but the differences in our reads on you come from such disparate places that it is hard for me to make anything of it.

i do zero meta and shiki does a lot.

honestly i think your faith in me is largely misplaced if not manipulative. in terms of the factual stuff i think i can be useful but in terms of turning it into reads i don't think i'm any better than random, which i think other players in this game know and it is strange to me that other than datisi (sort of) noone pointed this out. i just had an unusually good game last time around.

I haven't seen him tunnel other town, so I want to know from shiki if this is common town!Hiraki modus operandi.

i think in a lot of ways hiraki's pushes are his scumhunting as much as the result of his scumhunting, if you're asking if he commonly tunnels, which isn't really the word i would use to describe it. if you're asking me if he commonly 'tunnels' town as town i would say no but there isn't really a way for me to apply that to this situation until after the fact and it also doesn't make a lot of sense to do so because noone is 100% accurate.

Okay, I mean that's a weird policy and I think you should change it but that's confirmable if true at least.

sure this is true of

madoka

. the account specific consistency is kinda remarkable.

Nope. It's driven my games for a very long time now. Your buddy shiki can verify that or if he denies it, I'll do it.

i was thinking about this a lot while reading your games last time. i feel like you don't really get nightkilled despite having accurate reads, and this is likely the main reason. however, it likely also contributes to the frequency with which you get lynched day 2/3 as town.

GeorgeBailey

does this mean you think the monkey/hiraki exchange is town v town?

Her playstyle is quite different from when I knew her as TRQ so i'm finding it difficult to meta read.

team rocket queen was 0.0 and shiki is 0.1 and it feels as though it is time for 0.2 if i continue playing.

[humaneatingmonkey]

honestly i think your faith in me is largely misplaced if not manipulative. in terms of the factual stuff i think i can be useful but in terms of turning it into reads i don't think i'm any better than random, which i think other players in this game know and it is strange to me that other than datisi (sort of) noone pointed this out. i just had an unusually good game last time around.

i still want you to turn it into reads.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think in a lot of ways hiraki's pushes are his scumhunting as much as the result of his scumhunting

i see

[humaneatingmonkey]

i don't know. i think hiraki is generally pretty accurate but the differences in our reads on you come from such disparate places that it is hard for me to make anything of it.

what do you think about his push on me?

[humaneatingmonkey]

shiki, what does scum!Hiraki look like?

also, I'm not manipulative. I want to hear your thoughts because you do a lot of meta, and the more you give your input, the more I have better reads on you.