Mini Normal 2141: The World of Tomorrow [Game over!]

[Quick]

Major town points on Nauci here for me. I had been eyeing her carefully, but only town would defuse this pointless fight that well. Not looking great for you iDany.

Naw, Nauci is a self admitted meta diver so they have poured over my posts trying to understand me.

[VP Baltar]

OK some questions for VP

1) You said early on in the thread that you didn't like puppy talking about blair's inactivity. Did that actually affect your read one way or the other, since you had your vote on them at the time? And thoughts on puppy now?

2) Since you asked for the case on Blair (336) and since then a lot of discussion has happened between her and quick. Thoughts on Blair now?

3) Do you still think there's value in pressuring votato more at this stage?

1) puppy is town. said as much.

2) Blair is town. said as much. Also addressed mavs question in my previous post.

3) I think there is value in lynching votato and in lynching you, yes.

[Quick]

For example, mine for Quick is:

I initially thought Quick was being intentionally enigmatic and dodging questions as a matter of playstyle, but then he explicitly denied that he was doing so. When I voted for him for this apparent contradiction, he then claimed I was only voting for him for townreading Votato - something I never said, and he later admitted he knew that was not what I meant (another lie)! Liars who wilfully mislead the thread are more often scum than not.

P-edit: You keep ignoring the other two examples I gave. The ones where people asked you questions and you dodged them with similar antics.

@Quick - maybe it's a little late for this but please just answer questions when Blair or other people ask them if they're about your reads or why you did something, it's really difficult to read you if you tell people to read your or other people's isos rather than just explaining why you thought something at a given time. Like if I'm trying to figure out why you think Blair would do something is scum for example it's a lot easier to try figure out your alignment from a description of what you were thinking at the time than you telling me to go read through your iso or look at a specfic post Blair made without any extra context.

@Blair - Has your opinion on votato changed much in the last 5 pages or so? I'm not ULTRA-CONFIDENT but I like his recent posts.

@ready - What makes you think Blair vs Quick is TvT? I know Puppy mentioned a reason for it earlier but do you agree with what he said or do you have your own for it?

I would but I mentally don't even know what to tell people so they can understand...

Maybe perhaps try and understand where other people are coming from. Making a case is fine, but you should probably bee looking at why they are saying what they are saying rather that just finding excuses to push shit.

[Blair]

208 288 292

These were my examples of Quick being intentionally cryptic, for reference.

307

This was Quick's denial of being intentionally cryptic, for reference.

Quick says one of those three was a joke, and continues to pretend that one is the only one I listed.

[Blair]

I have to keep referring back to my initial post and setting the record straight because Quick keeps intentionally misrepresenting it.

[Quick]

208 288 292

These were my examples of Quick being intentionally cryptic, for reference.

307

This was Quick's denial of being intentionally cryptic, for reference.

Quick says one of those three was a joke, and continues to pretend that one is the only one I listed.

How about the way I play generates discussion. How does that sit with you?

[votato]

i can confirm: quick lies as town.

[Blair]

First he claimed I had voted him over a townread.

When that didn't take, he admitted he knew better.

Then he claimed it was an OMGUS.

Now he claims I just can't take a joke. (Note WAAAAAY back when I initially made this case one of my very first rebuttals to him was that not all three of those posts could be jokes, and he has never addressed this)

[Quick]

I am so over this rn. Keep making your "points" to be "right" IDGAF.

[Blair]

How about the way I play generates discussion. How does that sit with you?

All events generate discussion.

Pointless events (lying as town, which seems to be your defense) generate pointless discussion.

[VP Baltar]

Can you distill the case on R2R down to its simplest terms? Don't bother with links or quotes, I see you have already provided them, and I will refer back to them if I need them.

Give me the Reader's Digest, 1-3 sentence summary please.

Yep for sure.

OK, so r2r has been hella lurking. I have said I think there is scum clearly lurking in this game, given how may of the prolific players feel town to me. Then r2r comes back when a counter wagon forms to votato. In his return post (#403 8:15pm) he states a very vague suspicion on me that I'm "jumping on minor things." He also states in that post he sees two votes on me that just happened from mavs and votato. He says he's withholding his vote because he wants to check the vote count.

r2r then returns in his next post (#409 8:20pm) and votes me, saying there's only 1 vote on me, "so let's make it 2". He also says in this vote post that he "can't read today". I believe he intentionally misstated the vote count in his vote post so if anyone called him out for being the third vote on my wagon, he could say later "oh whoops, I thought it wasn't a wagon. I said in that post I hadn't read yet."

Two sentence version: I find it hard to believe r2r accurately stated the vote count at 8:15pm and then INACCURATELY stated it five minutes later after he said he was going to check the vote count. More likely answer: He was keeping the door open to justify a bad vote later.

[Blair]

Quick, there is a supreme irony in this hour, at which you simultaneously claim that you behave this way on purpose to generate discussion while also lamenting how tiresome the very discussion is which you have generated.

[mavsfan41]

@VP: I can see your case on R2R. You also strongly suggest R2R/Votato scum pairing. After I initially voted you, BOTH jumped on immediately. You think a scum pairing would be that blatant? Seems like an obvious grouping scum would avoid. I’ll agree with you R2R read (not entirely sold on him) but I doubt him and votato are BOTH scum together. I could see them as a scum pairing setting up a counter wagon and know why votato would be more eager as the wagon was on him, but he had chances to move off Atarashi and didn’t and also his vote on you was only the second which could hardly be seen as wagon jumping.

Also, Atarashi did something similar where he messed up a vote count too. I think Atarashi’s vote count mishaps was NAI if anything.

Not sure if you’re making a mountain of a molehill here, but I’m willing to see where this goes.

VOTE: ready2rock

[Blair]

Yes, upon review, it does appear R2R was probably lying. Thank you, VP.

I can only imagine one (not very persuasive) possible explanation if he really was confused, and I will not state it until I've heard an excuse of his own machinations.

I would happily lynch him if I cannot have Quick today, but it's far too early in the phase for me to give up and consolidate. I want to hear from the rest of the players on both Quick and R2R.

[Blair]

I am so over this rn. Keep making your "points" to be "right" IDGAF.

This is pretty textbook "You're right for the wrong reasons" righteous outrage, by the way.

(And meshes pretty well with his repeated "You can't PROVE it!!!!" riposte)

[NoPowerOverMe]

So we found scum. Cool.

[Quick]

I am so over this rn. Keep making your "points" to be "right" IDGAF.

This is pretty textbook "You're right for the wrong reasons" righteous outrage, by the way.

(And meshes pretty well with his repeated "You can't PROVE it!!!!" riposte)

Keep making your points, it doesn't make you right. Pretty much everyone else has reason to TR me so far this game. Good luck lynching me.

[Quick]

I'll wait.

[Quick]

The problem with flipping R2R so early is that we have very little to work with for the rest of the game. Is R2R actually Scum? Which means at least one of my SRs was correct.

Keep in mind R2R pushed me on my reasoning earlier before this wagon happened, thanks.

[Blair]

That is at least the second time you have proclaimed that every single person in this thread but me is townreading you.

I missed that development. Wishful thinking? Fake it until you make it? Or something else?

[Quick]

That is at least the second time you have proclaimed that every single person in this thread but me is townreading you.

I missed that development. Wishful thinking? Fake it until you make it? Or something else?

How many votes do I have?

[Blair]

Your evasion is noted.

Let's put your claim to the test:

Is it true? Quick claims everyone but Blair is townreading him.

[ready2rock]

So your case on me revolves around me misreading the vote count? That's pretty flimsy, which to me strengthens my case that you latch onto minor flimsy mistakes that people make.

Here's my timeline, I reread the thread and posted my thoughts on the game as a whole at that moment, voicing my suspicion of VP among other things. In that time, there were almost 10 new posts made, including both votes on VP. Since I wanted to get my post out there before even more happened, and I hadn't payed a ton of attention to a specific number of votes in the meantime, I wanted to go back and double check that I wasn't putting you at L-1 or anything. When I went back and read, I realized that I had read a vote on you and someone else quoting a vote on you as 2 votes, hence why I was saying that I was the 2nd vote. But now that I'm rereading again today, I realize I was right the first time and didn't see votato's vote in double checking

I don't understand what the difference would be between me being 2nd or 3rd on the wagon?

Also, is me being scum dependent on votato being scum, or the other way around? If one is town, is the other still scum?

@Blair My read on quick is slight town, though I find some of the way he's been responding to some people quite unhelpful. He explained his thought process in a lot of detail to me last night, but then to other people say that he doesn't see the point of trying to explain. I also think he's gonna be the hardest to read for me, so I don't want to push anything on him day 1 anyways

[NoPowerOverMe]

I can confirm that in his previous game R2R was scum and he used the "too early to participate" excuse.

[Quick]

I can confirm that in his previous game R2R was scum and he used the "too early to participate" excuse.

You want to link that?