Mini Normal 2141: The World of Tomorrow [Game over!]

[Blair]

But hey, if you want to lynch someone based on an OMGUS then be my guest.

Ah, there's the other one.

[Nauci]

Which is pretty much just blatantly FALSE given I personally have a decent TR on mav and they are making serious sense right now.

Okay so you're making logic decisions based on assuming that NPOM

must

have the exact same read as you do on mavs?

That doesn't make sense for 2 reasons: NPOM was saying there's at least 1 (but probably 2) scum on the VP B wagon, which doesn't necessarily mean mavs, and NPOM doesn't have to have had the same read of mavs as you did at the time?

[Blair]

That wasn't exactly the crux of his argument, though.

... ugh, don't do that. Don't make me defend Quick!

[NoPowerOverMe]

Don't you think that the VPB wagon suddenly swinging over to me just makes me more town rather than scummy?

[mavsfan41]

Not to nerf or advise r2r’s read on Atarashi, but after seeing those three scum lists, I read and reread Atarashi’s interactions with both NPOM and Votato. Personally, I read Atarashi as town. I also found this to be a pretty candid post about his interaction with NPOM in the early stages.

Neither of them seem disingenuous to me.

Really? This I need to hear. My understanding of the situation is he makes this super bad argument that he doesn't really ever elaborate on, but doesn't actually vote me off of it. Votato comes in and starts to quasi-push it (he later says he doesn't buy it, but doesn't like my defense to it which is another conversation entirely) and NPOM kinda just sits back and lets it happen. I've tried to engage him off of it multiple times and he refuses to discuss it. I'm really trying to see how this is a genuine push, but I feel like if it was genuine he would've voted me ~3 pages ago or there would be a lot more substantive back and forth between myself and him.

This would be two real lazy pushes from NPOM. The premise of both is jumping on wagons (r2r is also the lurking case) so I guess there’s consistency there, but seems like a real lazy way to scum hunt.

[NoPowerOverMe]

Not to nerf or advise r2r’s read on Atarashi, but after seeing those three scum lists, I read and reread Atarashi’s interactions with both NPOM and Votato. Personally, I read Atarashi as town. I also found this to be a pretty candid post about his interaction with NPOM in the early stages.

Neither of them seem disingenuous to me.

Really? This I need to hear. My understanding of the situation is he makes this super bad argument that he doesn't really ever elaborate on, but doesn't actually vote me off of it. Votato comes in and starts to quasi-push it (he later says he doesn't buy it, but doesn't like my defense to it which is another conversation entirely) and NPOM kinda just sits back and lets it happen. I've tried to engage him off of it multiple times and he refuses to discuss it. I'm really trying to see how this is a genuine push, but I feel like if it was genuine he would've voted me ~3 pages ago or there would be a lot more substantive back and forth between myself and him.

This would be two real lazy pushes from NPOM. The premise of both is jumping on wagons (r2r is also the lurking case) so I guess there’s consistency there, but seems like a real lazy way to scum hunt.

Show me how your scumhunting is superior.

[NoPowerOverMe]

In fact, looking over your voting history, it looks like your MO is to latch on to other wagons rather than do any hunting of your own.

[mavsfan41]

@NPOM: I didn’t say they were. I do see a common theme of you scum reading lurkers and people who joint wagons which is the lowest hanging fruit and easiest to push making them seem like convincing targets. I honestly don’t think both you and ready2rock are bus’ing each other and I’ve voted both. So my scum hunting skills aren’t superior or even all that good.

[Nauci]

Can someone explain to me why scum would want to hop off of voting for a player that they know to be town (let's assume Blair is town since so many people are currently reading her as town) and has another player voting for it already, and onto starting a brand new wagon on a lurker? Like, what would the scum motivation be for doing so?

I am still rereading NPOM's ISO to figure out what I think about them but that's my major confusion with the case made so far. Like, I understand that the case is based on a lack of explaining the progression of a read on Blair when moving the vote to r2r, but I think Quick said that it was scummy to move off of voting her and onto r2r and I'm not sure if I understand what you view as the scum motivation there?

[NoPowerOverMe]

Scum like to lurk. Town like to be active. We have no night action results, we have to go by voting history, strength of arguments, scumhunting ability, and meta. Is r2r LHF? Maybe. But i still think he's more likely scum.

[mavsfan41]

@NPOM: Three votes outside of RVS. I started the wagon on VP Baltar (I liked it at the time). Then I jumped to ready2rock after VP’s 517. Hard af to fake that post but not how lying about a vote count makes you scum, but I liked the lead especially since 403 was underwhelming catch-up post with nothing original. Now I’m on you after Quick so kindly laid out your read progression on Blair. If you think I’m wagon hopping too much, vote me.

[NoPowerOverMe]

Quick is tunneling me. With little to no basis in reality I might add. It's all theory. I explained my Blair progression. I explained my R2R case. I'm not going to quiver at a poor case of tunneling(Quick) and OMGUS(R2R). I get that you reaction test in day 1 but you're barking up the wrong tree.

[Blair]

Can someone explain to me why scum would want to hop off of voting for a player that they know to be town

Here's what Quick originally said:

IF that's the case, then NPOM me KNOWS Blair is Town. But again, the huge flaming giant dumpster fire here is that HE HAD NO PROGRESSION ON BLAIR.

Translation:

"NPOM is fake scumhunting. He believes he has naturally progressed from a scumread on Blair to a townread on Blair. However, there does not appear to have been any actually in-game reason for this shift to occur! Therefore, I (Quick) have concluded that this was a slip - NPOM thought he was faithfully scumhunting and his townread on Blair developed naturally but it was actually the product of a subconscious townread on Blair (because NPOM is scum and knows who is and isn't town), that's why there was no in-game explanation for the read shift."

In short: scum!NPOM thought that town!NPOM would be townreading Blair, so he adjusted his reads and moved his vote, but there wasn't actually a good reason to adjust his read at the time - because it was a subconscious slip.

Yeah, no matter how I try to put it this one is hard to distill down to bite-sized portions but the logic is in there.

[NoPowerOverMe]

Not good logic. I had a good reason to change my read.

[votato]

VOTE: no power over me. That's l-1. Please don't lynch yet.

[NoPowerOverMe]

No please, lynch me to prove there are scum on my wagon.

[ready2rock]

Putting pressure on is not the same as tunneling.

On Atarashi, it's nothing super deep, just like the posts they've made early, and didn't really love the case being made against him, but we'll have to see how they are when they come back

[Nauci]

VOTE: ready2rock

[ready2rock]

UNVOTE: because I'm about to go to sleep and am a bit paranoid, and if people did happen to read my last game you'll know why. Want to make sure some more people are on the record on NPOM. Will reapply my vote when I wake up if the vote count doesn't change.

[NoPowerOverMe]

Going to reevaluate my r2r read.

unvote

[NoPowerOverMe]

Paranoia is generally a town trait in my book. Doesn't change everything but I could be wrong about him.

[Nauci]

VOTE: votato

[NoPowerOverMe]

VOTE: Votato

[Nauci]

VOTE: Votato

If the hammer was still available I would have seriously considered doing so just for this shit

[NoPowerOverMe]

Seems like a decent vote to me.