Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[Ame]

It will just be an hour.

[Pink Ball]

NK is also town. It's neither of them. It's also not PB.

Don't make me vote Ali

[Raven Branwen]

It does make logical sense.

To you but unless you explain it to me, I don’t see it. Otoh, your NK15 case did make sense, so you saying it does when it doesn’t to me, doesn’t convince me of anything.

I don’t see why those Farkset quotes make ABR town at all. I’m not seeing why you’re interpreting them that way.

[Titus]

Please unvote while I write up the case.

No. Deadline is too close. Normally I would.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It does make logical sense.

To you but unless you explain it to me, I don’t see it. Otoh, your NK15 case did make sense, so you saying it does when it doesn’t to me, doesn’t convince me of anything.

I don’t see why those Farkset quotes make ABR town at all. I’m not seeing why you’re interpreting them that way.

HEY! LISTEN TO AME AND UNVOTE ME FROM L-1 WHILE AME SOLVES THE GAME. DON'T BE THAT GUY.

[Raven Branwen]

@NK

1. Why did you not state you forgot to train earlier?
2. How did you forget to train?
3. If you are low on XP why are you not voting for Pokerus?
4.

Why are you ignoring that SpringRaven has been spewed town by kerset

5. Where do you believe Raya was acting defensively and based on the examples you give, how do you think she should have reacted to them?
6. What is your read on GinnieSoulEnergy and MomoSae?

Also if you're low on XP why didn't you ask me for XP when I offered at the start of the day?

I don`t need you to give me xp next night. I can train. Then I have 4xp and can upgrade.

This post was the main reason I UNvoted NK15. This would be an extremely odd post for scum to make given the mechanics. I only voted NK15 because of PoE but didn’t really feel confident on it. I actually do think ABR is scum and nothing he has posted today has changed my mind. His entire argument seems to consist of Titus is bad at mafia, not why he’s town and he hasn’t explained why he has both NK15 and me in his PoE nor made any credible attempt to debunk my case. @Ame’s defense of ABR unlike NK15, makes absolutely no sense to me. At best that’s NAI.

Unless/until he provides a credible reason for why he thinks it makes logical sense to have both me and NK15 in his PoE, my vote is staying.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Please unvote while I write up the case.

No. Deadline is too close. Normally I would.

VOTE: Titus

Blatant antitown.

[Ame]

We have 3 hours after my case and we have enough people here. Unvote please.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Everyone is around and active, there's plenty of votes to get 5.

Titus is blatantly antitown trying to get a mislynch.

[Pink Ball]

Go for it Ame, nobody's hammering ABR

[Ame]

There will be a hammer. I've seen it in my mind's eye. Titus if you are here what is the big deal about unvoting for an hour.

[Raven Branwen]

It does make logical sense.

To you but unless you explain it to me, I don’t see it. Otoh, your NK15 case did make sense, so you saying it does when it doesn’t to me, doesn’t convince me of anything.

I don’t see why those Farkset quotes make ABR town at all. I’m not seeing why you’re interpreting them that way.

HEY! LISTEN TO AME AND UNVOTE ME FROM L-1 WHILE AME SOLVES THE GAME. DON'T BE THAT GUY.

UNVOTE:

Fine but what he’s posted so far doesn’t convince me of anything.

You explain to me how you it makes logical sense to you to have both NK15 and me in your PoE or I’m revoting you.

[Ame]

Thank you Raven!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Let's just give Ame time. This game has been on the backburner for me and will remain so while I'm in danger. I haven't put too much effort or time to figuring out who's scum, if I'm wrong about my POE I'll change it. I'm not married to my reads.

[Raven Branwen]

NK is also town. It's neither of them. It's also not PB.

Don't make me vote Ali

I don’t see why scum!Ali dismantles Hectic wagon, so I’m with you on that. It really pings me that ABR is not even attempting to address my case on him, NK15 did.

[Raya36]

Raya could you unvote for a bit?

Sure. UNVOTE:

[Titus]

Let's just give Ame time. This game has been on the backburner for me and will remain so while I'm in danger. I haven't put too much effort or time to figuring out who's scum, if I'm wrong about my POE I'll change it. I'm not married to my reads.

Blackmail is so protown.

[Raven Branwen]

Let's just give Ame time. This game has been on the backburner for me and will remain so while I'm in danger. I haven't put too much effort or time to figuring out who's scum, if I'm wrong about my POE I'll change it. I'm not married to my reads.

You call Titus “bad at mafia” for sr you but give me shit when I say the same to you. My “psychology“ comment was not in anyway a personal attack but what I believed to be a valid criticism. I was in a game where another player insisted on lynching a slot for hard defending scum, without giving any consideration to the very clear blatantly townie thought process behind it. That player was ignoring the obvious “psychology” and clear townie thought process for that bad read. That was my basic point. You were ignoring the fact that spring badly wanted to be leader and was never down with being captured and for spring to be scum, would imply an involuntary bus. Yes I know capture /= bus literally but for someone who was that desperate to be quest leader, I think the analogy is apt. Also, I know something about how scum!Fariset treats his buddies and involuntary bussing isn’t common anyway but for someone like Farkran who’s an extremely loyal teammate who has plenty of integrity, I just can’t ever see him screwing over a buddy like that. I’m also frustrated because I don’t think any of my play since replacing in makes an iota of sense as scum but for some reason neither you or NK15 seem to be seeing that.

[Raven Branwen]

Let's just give Ame time. This game has been on the backburner for me and will remain so while I'm in danger. I haven't put too much effort or time to figuring out who's scum, if I'm wrong about my POE I'll change it. I'm not married to my reads.

Blackmail is so protown.

???

How is this blackmail?

[Titus]

Let's just give Ame time. This game has been on the backburner for me and will remain so while I'm in danger. I haven't put too much effort or time to figuring out who's scum, if I'm wrong about my POE I'll change it. I'm not married to my reads.

Blackmail is so protown.

???

How is this blackmail?

ABR is saying he'll play this game when he's not under lynch threat.

[Raven Branwen]

Let's just give Ame time. This game has been on the backburner for me and will remain so while I'm in danger. I haven't put too much effort or time to figuring out who's scum, if I'm wrong about my POE I'll change it. I'm not married to my reads.

Blackmail is so protown.

???

How is this blackmail?

ABR is saying he'll play this game when he's not under lynch threat.

I interpreted it to mean that nothing is going to happen prior to Ame posting his case. It still really bothers me that he hasn’t addressed my case on him yet.

I don’t understand how anyone can have both me and NK15 in their PoE.

Why hasn’t the mod responded to any of my questions yet? I asked if scum had fake claims and if we could get an extension and so far, no response. :/

[Pink Ball]

mod hasn't posted in like almost 3 days, chill!

[Pink Ball]

Also you can't ask for an extension out of nothing I think

[Ame]

Almost done!

[Ame]

Ok, so it's Creature. The thing I noticed about Farkran's interaction with mastina yesterday is the tonal difference between the way he talks to his partners and town members. I've been taking some time with this case because it's difficult to communicate tonal differences, but I'll do my best. Here are the two posts the stood out with his mastina interaction:

Spoiler:

Pretty sure the scum who did the nightkill would claim that they train cop checked and that would be the end of it

Yeah, but they have to claim their result on the person too, and they won't know whether they were Training/Not Training.

Small problem with that. It gives me a massive townread on Hectic for having townslipped, but does anyone else realize the key problem with Hectic's plan which makes this a townslip?

No, but i do think hectic is +town for that post. Enlighten us?

-Farkran

This alt is a playstyle experiment.

Well let me tell you, if you're town it's a failure already. (I guess you could argue it's also a failure as scum if I pegged you this early, buthey, never know.)

Because I'm pretty sure this is not the result you intended from your alt:
HURT: Lady Chloe.

Be nice, mastina. I support all private alts. I think it's a preposterous reason to SR someone.

You're not reading right.

I'm not scumreading Lady Chloe for being an anonymous alt.
I'm scumreading Lady Chloe for their contributions to the game thusfar.

Can you point me to which Chloe posts are poor contributions to the game? Her iso is short enough, this shouldn't be a huge effort.

To be honest, i liked #70 and #75 but i slightly disliked #139. I'm interested in your opinion.

-Farkran

There is a soft inquiry tone to them. It's different than every other player (beside Lady) that he communicated with. I guess the best way to describe it is the "hey I am very much interested in your opinion what do you think of" like he is trying to look like he doesn't know here alignment. Going off of this, he has a very overt and solid tell that indicates his scumbuddies: the use of phrases like " I'm interested in your opinion." It's pretty funny that it's a tell, but it's consistent with the way he interacts with mastina and Chloe throughout the game and distinct from his interactions with others. It's as if he making it known that he is just trying to gauge them and not really pushing them pre se.

Here are the interactions with Chloe where he had the same tone and used the same tell:

Spoiler:

Pink Ball,

May you weigh the pros and cons you see to capturing an individual today?

I'm interested in this, and your comments after pink ball answer

I have my own opinion on the matter too

-Farkran

Chloe, i scumlean you - i have no issues with you as a person. I feel the need to correct wrong opinions and providing my own, but i don't want you to stop talking.

As you can see, i'm not immune to mistakes though.

-Farkran

Besides, you say that i haven't been evaluating your motives. Aren't you being self-defensive by attacking me right now? You didn't say in the thread "hey, i am scum!", you offered opinions, and from them i deduced that you are plausibly scum. How is that not evaluating?

If you are town, i disagree with you strongly and i don't want the game to go in the direction you want it to. It happens. Plenty of time, i'd say, in all the games i played. Most of which i have been town. The bolded part sounds like free shade, why are you scumreading disagreement, rather than trying to understand if such disagreement is genuine or fake?

For the record, the main reason i'm scumleaning you is because of your interactions with springlullaby and springlullaby interactions with you. As for hectic, i think he's town and trying to assess whether springlullaby is trolltown or scum, i don't see anything wrong with that. If i am being pocketed by hectic, i'll reassess later, but i just think hectic would be much different as scum than he is in this game.

No, that specific post does not make you scum. But it also doesn't make you town - in my opinion. I asked Raya what was the difference between your post and Pine's.

Why would you think that post in particular would make anyone read you as town, or scum? This is an interesting question tbh, i'd like to hear why you would think that i should scumread you based on that. Why would a player who scumleans you find scumminess in every single one of your posts?

-----

Additionally, that middle post stood out because of the spontaneous apologetic tone toward Chloe:

Chloe, i scumlean you - i have no issues with you as a person. I feel the need to correct wrong opinions and providing my own, but i don't want you to stop talking.

As you can see, i'm not immune to mistakes though.

-Farkran

This was the series of posts he was responding to from Chloe:

Spoiler:

I will say, before I convene with Pink Ball and Hectic, I want something answered.

Farkset,

Kerset has no patience and doesn't read discord

Still interested in chloe's comments

-Farkran

Well i was going to wait for lady chloe but this is taking a turn for the worse so i feel i need to step in now.

Why can't you handle any input that you don't agree with to exist in the thread?

I've made plenty of comments about this game but the only time I am worth discussion to you, Farkran, are the points where we don't align together. Or, I am a question mark based on how you read -other- slots, but not my own content by itself.

I have a strong distaste for how you approach me.

I townread Ame for her desire to have other slots give valued input before preemptive judgment is brought on them, and I find the opposite behavior with your slot.

What I wonder is, if this is playstyle, AI, or if I am misreading your intentions here.

Please correct me if I am misled.

There was nothing to be apologetic about. Why did Fark react this way to Chloe but not to others who had pressed him throughout the day, especially Spring? It goes along with the way he treads lightly when speaking to his partners. He doesn't like to hard push his partners but is rather soft with the engagement. And because of how unwarranted the reaction is, I believe that it was just theatre. There was similar theatre later on in the day:

Well then - i got that impression from your comments about distaste and displeasure when talking to me, glad to hear we aren't going to cross a line here. It was never my intention.

Again, there was no reason to think this at all.








Next, Chloe's progression on Farkset was unnatural.

Spoiler:

She went from this:

Town

Raya-Ame
FotC-Ginngie-Hectic
Pine-Pink Ball-springlullaby-

NK15

Farkset
mastina-momo

Scum

Dear, there is too many oxygen-mongers.

My, how informative these posts were after my 848

springlullaby shows a willingness to indulge in my thoughts, while providing an option alternate to my vote on ending the day.

Farkran waits to reply to another person, outlining that I am independently a scumlean despite his previous reasons of suspecting me to be associative, and inquires to another player if they believe I have faked being the mediator.

While both may come from either alignment given a player's skill, I enjoy springlullaby's best given the necessity for town to reach a consensus on the game. One is an example of good faith solving, and the other being less so.

This was the hands-on sorting that I needed to read them better.

Farkran,

I replied to Raya because it was Raya pointing out that your 848 was town, while i think you could be able to fake it. It's not part of why i scumlean you, it's an opinion on whether or not that post was indicative of being town, so i asked Raya if he found your post tonally similar to Pine's. I think it isn't but that doesn't make you scum.

What's in good faith from springlullaby?

-Farkran

Your stance bewilders me.

You have yet to voice why I am independently scum for springlullaby, yet you've spoke of this read originally as if it had all to do with my connection to springlullaby.

Someone you could believe is town stated that I were town, but you think the reason to townread me on such is misled. But it is not part of your scumlean on me? Nor is it scum-indicative on my part?

How you view me is non-committal, Farkran.

As for springlullaby, I believe she takes to me in good faith since her reads are committed stances and this is consistent with her approach to the game.

To this:

To clarify my viewpoint:

The question to ask is:

Why both town and scum were content to have disable strongman as the new mechanic and Ame as the quest leader, but there's so much dissent on the capture target?

Possible answers:
1) Scum is lurking and do not wish to engage the gamestate. This would point to town!Ame having very bad reads and scum residing in the less vocal players: {mastina slot, gingie, pinkball, momo, pine, nk15, raya}
2) All scum are in the vocal players and they're staging to the purpose of dismantling any town cohesion - this would point to either town!ame with good reads, or scum!ame: {farkran, springlullaby, ame, hectic, foc, chloe}

I believe the first possibility is the reality of this game, unless I am deeply misled on my reads.

Perhaps I should be open here.

Town

Ame-Raya
springlullaby-FoC-Farkset-Pine-Ginngie-Hectic
(mastina slot)-Pink Ball
NK15-momo

Scum

I will not predict or strategize around nightkills on D1.

Usually, they're either incorrect, or disrupt and doubtcast my own read progression within a game.

Despite the case I made on Fark. She never once addressed my case. And she doesn't ever explain her change in read on Farkset. It's as if once the push on him got serious, she completely dropped it. Additionally, the line I highlighted in blue reads strangely, as if she were patting herself on the back for scumhunting. Also in that post, she implies that her scumhunting led to distinguishing Farkset as scum and Spring as town. Yet she completely abandoned this out of nowhere. Lastly, that second to last quote pinged me because Chloe was on my side for much of the game and it seemed really deraily, like she was trying to mitigate my influence/Fark push.

The bolded lines here also stood out to me day 1:

There is one fear I have with you, Farkran, and it is that I am reading you too literally.

If you are not getting the results you desire from this thread as we speak, then it may be a point of reassessment. I don't mean your read on me.

p-edit

I am having trouble concluding who you speak about in the first paragraph, and how you connect the quoted posts to your assessment.

I'm sorry Ame but you are taking everything at surface level,

you refuse to get my points and you are furthering an argument for the sake of being right rather than it being useful to the town.

I could not for the life of me figure out what Chloe was referencing as reading into too literally. This came just a little after I had been debating with Farkset regarding my case. It felt to me as if Chloe were subtly and indirectly reconsider by putting the idea out there that my points weren't just misreading Farks surface behavior. When Fark posted a similar line later, it made me think that Fark genuinely thought that and stated it in the scum chat at around the time of my push. And Chloe put it out there as a way to get it into the atmosphere.



Chloe and Fark also both posted back-to-back to get ahead of speculation regarding mastina's replace out:

mastina replaced out due to a ban, I believe. It is unfortunate. It is not AI.

Mastina ban
Looks like it's true.

Chloe, why do you townread FotC?

-Farkran

Lastly, Farkan attempted to clear mastina and Chloe from being partners:

Mastina and Chloe probably disaligned for attempting similar setup-based townslips. I think the townslips aren't particularly AI for either but they are almost never SvS; yet to determine if TvT or TvS.

Actually i'd like mastina to answer this:

This alt is a playstyle experiment.

Well let me tell you, if you're town it's a failure already. (I guess you could argue it's also a failure as scum if I pegged you this early, buthey, never know.)

Because I'm pretty sure this is not the result you intended from your alt:
HURT: Lady Chloe.

What do you expect from this?

-Farkran

pedit: Ame could you explain why do you think the train cop is a net negative? I mean, i thought so as well initially, but it's clearly not imo

Also from my notes:
Mastina vs Chloe disaligned
Ame vs springlullaby disaligned
Hectic vs springlullaby disaligned