Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[Tanner]

Ok. I've already said that I think Una/Luca aren't S/S, but I would really appreciate if someone would actually discuss that with me.

Just read their double ISO. I don't see that they can't be scum together. The interactions are weak and don't result in real pushes.

D1, Luca mostly attacked George and Una. D2, there was a wagon on Luca before popo replaced in, in which Una (along with mavs) was the main pusher. You think that is easily s/s? (Not being snarky, this is a genuine question)

I guess my "current solve" is Prana > Puppy > Knight but I wanna have some sorta certainty on Una but everyone keeps ignoring my attempts to talk about that lmao

Let's talk about una! I have been trying to talk about una all day! (!!!)

My issue with that is that you've not read the game, and I see in your catchup (that i've barely skimmed) some questions that have been answered later.

[Tanner]

tanner what do you think of this early take now that drew flipped town? i like most of ur takes, but early it seems like you're saying george is town if drew is scum, and now that drew is town u still seem to be thinking george is town. i don't understand ur progression here

All I said that, if Drew were to flip scum, that would be +town for George. I didn't say anything about what happens if Drew flips town, e.g. "if Drew flips town, that's +scum for George".

Also, I don't know if it's confbias at this point or what, but I really think your reason for making Prana town there is just Not Good. The discussion as a whole of "scum would be more or less likely to believe two Millers" is just wifom.

[Persivul]

D1, Luca mostly attacked George and Una. D2, there was a wagon on Luca before popo replaced in, in which Una (along with mavs) was the main pusher. You think that is easily s/s? (Not being snarky, this is a genuine question)

Yes, I do.
1. It was early in phase. It was clear from D1 that this group isn't into quick lynches, so there was no danger of the lynch actually happening.
2. He named luca-me-you as the scum team a couple posts later. Scum frequently put one of their own in their scum pool.
3. HE THEN COMPLETELY FORGOT ABOUT IT. He moved onto mechanical analysis and stopped pushing the slot at all. He said that's because of the replace out for some reason. Hell, when I'm town and someone I'm pushing replaces out, I'm like a shark that smells blood in the water. But Una just swam away.

[Persivul]

Hi Persi!

Since u're on -- what do u make of una holding his vote on d3?

I think una has played very carefully this whole game, and holding the vote is just one example of that. Personally I tend to play carefully when I'm scum, or a town PR. I already noted that I gave una some leeway because I thought he might be hinting at TPR. But, now he's not, so that leaves scum.

[Tanner]

Ummmmm, OK.. Weird random votes all around.
I think PranaDevil is scum.
VOTE: LucaBlight

Erm... your theory and your vote don't add up.

TL on Farside. Prana and Una fall below the null line.

If this is a Luca/Prana/Una scumteam then this is a meme.

Maybe I'm not being objective because of the whole "I was scumreading Tanner because I thought he was a PR and wanted him to not get killed." That seems like a Towny thing.

[Knightmare491]

@Persi, @Tanner what do you guys think about this, what do you think is more likely? Scum! PD not paying attention on his read progression on his buddy Una or a town! Una?

Look at this progression of Una read from PD, he goes from being a scum read to a town read(?)
It would make more sense if Una was in null because below are the only three points he makes about Una, in which the last one he says that he could be scum. I don't think the things that he has said can justify PD reading Una as town now.

Spoiler:

So... Scum team is leaning in the grouping of:
Persivul
Knightmare
Panda
Una

Una #511 Makes the same point I've been making regarding Persivul.

Una #515 This is good. Una could easily have coasted off the rolecop claim if he were scum, and brought up stuff as wifom later, but he pushes the fact that a rolecop claim doesn't have to be town.

Una #574 Good posting by Una, and against my bad posting. Una could be scum still, and distancing brilliantly... but I'm not so sure there.

Final conclusion:

Reads are:

Town:
Eve

Likely town:
Mavs
Popo
Una

Null:
George
Tanner
Riabi

Scum:
Persivul
Knightmare
Panda

[Tanner]

i genuinely have no clue.

i'm also afraid of going too much into it because i feel prana will then flip town just to spite me lmao

[PranaDevil]

@Persi, @Tanner what do you guys think about this, what do you think is more likely? Scum! PD not paying attention on his read progression on his buddy Una or a town! Una?

Look at this progression of Una read from PD, he goes from being a scum read to a town read(?)
It would make more sense if Una was in null because below are the only three points he makes about Una, in which the last one he says that he could be scum. I don't think the things that he has said can justify PD reading Una as town now.

Spoiler:

So... Scum team is leaning in the grouping of:
Persivul
Knightmare
Panda
Una

Una #511 Makes the same point I've been making regarding Persivul.

Una #515 This is good. Una could easily have coasted off the rolecop claim if he were scum, and brought up stuff as wifom later, but he pushes the fact that a rolecop claim doesn't have to be town.

Una #574 Good posting by Una, and against my bad posting. Una could be scum still, and distancing brilliantly... but I'm not so sure there.

Final conclusion:

Reads are:

Town:
Eve

Likely town:
Mavs
Popo
Una

Null:
George
Tanner
Riabi

Scum:
Persivul
Knightmare
Panda

What do you do with that when I flip Green.

Honest question.

[Persivul]

Tanner, what's your case on knight?

[UnaBombaH]

No. George unvoted in 1211. He had no vote up when you put me at L-1 in 1260. You knew that, and even called george out to vote me:

Did I misread your recap then?
I based that post solely on it.

[Persivul]

Did I misread your recap then?

Yes.

[Persivul]

Well...

misread

might be charitable.

[Tanner]

Tanner, what's your case on knight?

i don't know if i have one anymore. rereading the game (and now his iso), i see that we were thinking pretty much the same thing when you claimed early Day2.

i'll concede that i don't think prana/knightmare are likely anymore. i think my problem was that some of his votes were made on wagons that clearly weren't going anywhere? and another issue i have is just how

easy

he bought into popo's claim.

I think Tanner and Persivul are opposite alignments, I don't understand how he still thinks Persivul is town. He either knows he's town that's why he's pushing for a popo lynch(bussing) for town cred. He can't be scum with Persivul, wouldn't defend their buddy like this.

this post is also bothering me. it felt like he was setting me up for the next day.

but then i don't understand why he went to vote popo, especially after the VC in 1218. I don't get it. i don't know if scum would bus there. but he was later using that point to clear himself.

i feel like we're so close but i really don't want to go to lylo and i don't know what to do

[Persivul]

Isn't this all about tomorrow now? I'm assuming we're lynching prana today. Don't think we'll be in lylo tomorrow.

If we get comfortable with me/you/george/knight, then it's a matter of lynching through prana/una/puppy. I'm not saying I'm 100% there, but it's looking better. I feel more comfortable about george now after looking at those votes. Don't like una so far today.

[UnaBombaH]

Don't like una so far today.

I'm not sure I like myself so far either.

[Tanner]

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, no?

[UnaBombaH]

My only thing is that I don't feel much like casing anyone or anything anymore.
If Prana isn't scum, we have a situation where I have not been able read much of anything correctly this game, and we are in a LyLo where I might still need to make a case for myself or we lose.
If Prana is scum, I'm almost willing to be lynched tomorrow if Persivul doesn't reconsider the George-lynch.

[PranaDevil]

Isn't this all about tomorrow now? I'm assuming we're lynching prana today. Don't think we'll be in lylo tomorrow.

If we get comfortable with me/you/george/knight, then it's a matter of lynching through prana/una/puppy. I'm not saying I'm 100% there, but it's looking better. I feel more comfortable about george now after looking at those votes. Don't like una so far today.

Knightmare is scum.

[CantHateAPuppy]

My only thing is that I don't feel much like casing anyone or anything anymore.
If Prana isn't scum, we have a situation where I have not been able read much of anything correctly this game, and we are in a LyLo where I might still need to make a case for myself or we lose.
If Prana is scum, I'm almost willing to be lynched tomorrow if Persivul doesn't reconsider the George-lynch.

VOTE: unabombah

if u still don't have a case on anyone what was the point of picking fights with other posters?

[CantHateAPuppy]

I guess my "current solve" is Prana > Puppy > Knight but I wanna have some sorta certainty on Una but everyone keeps ignoring my attempts to talk about that lmao

Let's talk about una! I have been trying to talk about una all day! (!!!)

My issue with that is that you've not read the game, and I see in your catchup (that i've barely skimmed) some questions that have been answered later.

read most of the game at this point, will try to finish tomorrow, but i'm not going to stop making my points just because u're tired of hearing them

[UnaBombaH]

if u still don't have a case on anyone what was the point of picking fights with other posters?

You are as much stuck on this as Prana was on "Una said he wanted to end the day immediately D1 after we had the Miller-claim".

I HAVE given my reasons for why Prana is scum.
Most of them were in the previous days.
You claim to have read most of the game - you should know.

Me "picking fights" is 1st of all a weird way of putting it, especially since it has always been about trying to get reactions and reads whenever I've disagreed or argued with a player I've ended up agreeing with in the end.
2nd of all, I still do not see how that results in a scumread? It's more scummy to disagree with others and poke at things in an effort to generate discussion, than it would be to just sheep everything and everyone in turn?

[UnaBombaH]

Furthermore - if people can't see my genuine frustration at my own game and reads so far, then there's a thing for you to look for in my ISO.
Especially now that I know I was wrong about Persi vs popopo, AND it turns out that my gutread on Tanner has been a miss as well.

Nothing in this game has gone my way yet, so obviously I'm feeling discouraged and irritated.
What makes it all "better" is the fact that puppy is acting the same way that Prana was/has been acting for the majority of the game.
With puppy it's even more annoying because their slot has been active less than I've been right in this game.

[Persivul]

Especially now that I know I was wrong about Persi vs popopo

You can't really be wrong when you're sitting on a fence.

[Persivul]

So, I'm fully admitting to my fault here, for being an undecisive second-guesser, but I honestly do not see a scum-agenda that could be derived from my actions.

Let me help you with that:
1. Not making enemies. Look at this game. I didn't have much interest in it until prana made me an enemy.
2. Leaving lynch options open.

[Persivul]

I'm at prana --> una --> puppy

VOTE: prana