Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Morning Tweet]

I'd be really surprised if pisskop were faking the events in the trap he played with GuiltyLion and TSE. His flavour claim, the role itself, what happened in the trap, the message by GL... it'd be hard for all of that work out perfectly like it does. Like, faking that what happened was a role mishap? I'm pretty convinced.

I suppose that it's possible pisskop's fakeclaim and his real role work the same. Sounds a tad overpowered to be able to A.) Enter the traps, B.) Kill everyone in them, and C.) confirm your claim doing so. I would be a little annoyed at that possibility.

Whatever though, I'm going to move on from that now.

[Morning Tweet]

I think based on a voting standpoint, we'd have a higher chance of hitting scum voting for dave. Dave could be partnered with scum!BM. Dave could be on the scumteam framing town!BM.

At the same time, if BM is in fact scum, I'd be extremely unhappy with allowing him to get away with everything he's done so far. Additionally, it's possible that scum!BM is just being bussed here

So yeah, I can just take the safe option, whatever it's GG and we lose if he's town. Can't really be upset about that.

Or we could try and hit dave just to see what happens. i dont really know what the odds are of this one workin yet. Me believing pisskop is hurting the chances a little

[VaultDweller]

TrueSoulEnergy has been killed night 3! He was Daniel Matthews, a Son aligned with Jigsaw's Chosen

Welcome to Jigsaw's Revenge TrueSoulEnergy!

You are Daniel Matthews, a Son aligned with Jigsaw's Chosen



"My Dad's a... he's a real hard ass. You know, he's probably got half the city out looking for me, just so he can kick my ass for disappearing on him."

Abilities
-During the day, you may vote for whoever you want to arrest on suspicion of being involved in the Jigsaw murders.
-You know your father is on the hunt for you. You know VaultDweller is Eric Matthews, and is one of Jigsaw's Chosen. However, they do not know your identity.

You win once all of Jigsaw's Acolytes have been eliminated.
The game thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82769

Am I town yet BM?

[Battle Mage]

TrueSoulEnergy has been killed night 3! He was Daniel Matthews, a Son aligned with Jigsaw's Chosen

Welcome to Jigsaw's Revenge TrueSoulEnergy!

You are Daniel Matthews, a Son aligned with Jigsaw's Chosen



"My Dad's a... he's a real hard ass. You know, he's probably got half the city out looking for me, just so he can kick my ass for disappearing on him."

Abilities
-During the day, you may vote for whoever you want to arrest on suspicion of being involved in the Jigsaw murders.
-You know your father is on the hunt for you. You know VaultDweller is Eric Matthews, and is one of Jigsaw's Chosen. However, they do not know your identity.

You win once all of Jigsaw's Acolytes have been eliminated.
The game thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82769

Am I town yet BM?

Yep!

I can't be right all the time...

[VaultDweller]

To be more precise, what do you mean by "essentially confirmed town?

at the time I'd just

single-handedly

led a scum lynch

from nothing

, within my own hood (at a time when the unanimous view was that there was only 1 scum in our hood). So I was essentially conf-town, in that nobody in their right mind would be lynching me (as everyone else would have told you at the time...). But I had the added benefit of being able to actually influence things, whereas a hidden IC couldn't do that (and in a game full of cops and stuff, an IC isn't that powerful anyway...)

It's posts like these that I don't like. Hectic made the initial case. So "single-handedly" and "from nothing" are objectively false

[Battle Mage]

Ok Ircher is definitely town. So that helps.

Good chance there is 1 scum in {Firebringer, BBMolla}

No idea why it's so damn hard to lynch ABR - his play this game has been as inconsistent and haphazard as anything I've ever seen on this site, and yet throughout he has made no attempt to hide the fact he is scum. MT saving him yesterday was a turning point in this game.

so Ircher, VD, BM = town

Pisskop has started to win me over a little bit today, so let's play it extra safe.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: ABR

We may as well go out swinging at the most likely scum player. Anyone buying that ABR is some nonchalant frustrated town who is throwing the game today, after all the effort he has put in, is mad.

[Battle Mage]

To be more precise, what do you mean by "essentially confirmed town?

at the time I'd just

single-handedly

led a scum lynch

from nothing

, within my own hood (at a time when the unanimous view was that there was only 1 scum in our hood). So I was essentially conf-town, in that nobody in their right mind would be lynching me (as everyone else would have told you at the time...). But I had the added benefit of being able to actually influence things, whereas a hidden IC couldn't do that (and in a game full of cops and stuff, an IC isn't that powerful anyway...)

It's posts like these that I don't like. Hectic made the initial case. So "single-handedly" and "from nothing" are objectively false

Not my recollection matey, but I'm not going back to check now, so whatever!

It's nearly game over - time to join the righteous wagon, or close this one out. Don't think we can lynch outside of {BM, ABR} today anyway given the numbers.

[Morning Tweet]

We may as well go out swinging at the most likely scum player. Anyone buying that ABR is some nonchalant frustrated town who is throwing the game today, after all the effort he has put in, is mad.

every single vote on you is 100% justified. to call voting you "throwing the game" is a terrible misinterpretation of the situation

[VaultDweller]

Claim time.

I am a 3-shot Investigator. I can investigate someone and see if they rigged the game within the last 2 nights (excluding jigsaw)
- Night 1 I did nothing
- Night 2 I investigated iDanyboy/bingle. I got a negative result
- Night 3 I investigated BM. I got a negative result

Discuss.

[Morning Tweet]

Okay here's more concise scumteams prolly

BM + 2-3 of {Ircher/Bingle/dave/Eddie} + {???}

or

3-4 of {Pisskop/BBMolla/Fire/

Davesaz/dave

} + {???}

just give me some time to ensure that the bottom possibility isnt happening

Wat?

I just now noticed what you were pointing out lol. can't rule out the possibility dave is scum twice

[Morning Tweet]

Claim time.

I am a 3-shot Investigator. I can investigate someone and see if they rigged the game within the last 2 nights (excluding jigsaw)
- Night 1 I did nothing
- Night 2 I investigated iDanyboy/bingle. I got a negative result
- Night 3 I investigated BM. I got a negative result

Discuss.

Wait really?

[Morning Tweet]

i'm going to sleep..... i'm overall giving myself an A for effort but an F for effectiveness on trying to see BM!town

[Battle Mage]

I think based on a voting standpoint, we'd have a higher chance of hitting scum voting for dave. Dave could be partnered with scum!BM. Dave could be on the scumteam framing town!BM.

At the same time, if BM is in fact scum, I'd be extremely unhappy with allowing him to get away with everything he's done so far. Additionally, it's possible that scum!BM is just being bussed here

So yeah, I can just take the safe option, whatever it's GG and we lose if he's town. Can't really be upset about that.

Or we could try and hit dave just to see what happens. i dont really know what the odds are of this one workin yet. Me believing pisskop is hurting the chances a little

The idea that it's ok to lynch me when I'm quite clearly town, but justifying it because of how I handled a trap, is lame. I've already said my piece on night actions, so won't be made to feel more guilty - last night was a bad move, night 1 was the right move. But gimme a break, aside from that, I've been all over this game, scumhunting to the max.

If you gave my setup theory the benefit of the doubt yesterday by lynching ABR we could be in a great position now. All the knowledge of flavour we have, has been completely wasted in this game - achieving no benefit for town (which is a crying shame if we're both town).

It isn't too late to actually try and win this game...

If I was scum here, do you really think I'd even care enough to spend time discussing anything, with the game virtually won? In contrast, ABR is just popping up frequently to gloat about being on the cusp of victory.

I don't think Dave is even voting for me, so setting this up as BM vs Dave is a wild stab in the dark.

I'm sticking with ABR, and that's final - we either lynch conf-scum today or it's game over, seems quite apt.

Confirm Vote: ABR

[VaultDweller]

We may as well go out swinging at the most likely scum player. Anyone buying that ABR is some nonchalant frustrated town who is throwing the game today, after all the effort he has put in, is mad.

Yesterday I was convinced both of you are scum, so I can be persuaded to vote ABR.

In fact,

VOTE: ABR

for now.

[Battle Mage]

Claim time.

I am a 3-shot Investigator. I can investigate someone and see if they rigged the game within the last 2 nights (excluding jigsaw)
- Night 1 I did nothing
- Night 2 I investigated iDanyboy/bingle. I got a negative result
- Night 3 I investigated BM. I got a negative result

Discuss.

So me and Bingle are conftown (or Jigsaw)? Sweet!

And by the way, if anyone seriously thinks I'm freaking Jigsaw, in the survivor hood, and deliberately bussed my only cover on Day 1, then put myself in traps 2/3 nights, you're ribbing.

Also this confirms Jigsaw is not the only one placing traps, so our previous discussion about killing Jigsaw ending the traps was wrong.

And for what it's worth, I don't think Bingle/Idanyboy is Jigsaw either. Would his team bus him so hard if he was? Would he have just replaced out, with his team in such a strong position? Not convinced of that.

[Morning Tweet]

Oh I interpreted negative as guilty. That was really confusing for a moment.

The idea that it's ok to lynch me when I'm quite clearly town, but justifying it because of how I handled a trap, is lame. I've already said my piece on night actions, so won't be made to feel more guilty - last night was a bad move, night 1 was the right move. But gimme a break, aside from that, I've been all over this game, scumhunting to the max.

If you gave my setup theory the benefit of the doubt yesterday by lynching ABR we could be in a great position now. All the knowledge of flavour we have, has been completely wasted in this game - achieving no benefit for town (which is a crying shame if we're both town).

It isn't too late to actually try and win this game...

If I was scum here, do you really think I'd even care enough to spend time discussing anything, with the game virtually won? In contrast, ABR is just popping up frequently to gloat about being on the cusp of victory.

I don't think Dave is even voting for me, so setting this up as BM vs Dave is a wild stab in the dark.

I'm sticking with ABR, and that's final - we either lynch conf-scum today or it's game over, seems quite apt.

Confirm Vote: ABR

Quite clearly town is massively overselling yourself. I can see town!you making this choice in the game last night, so I can't really confirm you as scum over it, like many others in the thread have. It's making me very paranoid. You also massively overestimate your scumhunting abilities. It's really painful to read

You really never were able to convince me, nor anyone else of your flavour theory. It just didn't make sense to me. You couldn't have done anything different. It just sounds wrong. im sorry dude

I would say ABR sounds more like he thinks the game is lost due to you throwing than anything.

What does dave voting for you have to do with it?

I'm playing around with the idea of setting the lynch to someone entirely different from you on the chance it hits scum. Only problem is I really just want to lynch you and end the game. Vault is helping though.

[Battle Mage]

We may as well go out swinging at the most likely scum player. Anyone buying that ABR is some nonchalant frustrated town who is throwing the game today, after all the effort he has put in, is mad.

every single vote on you is 100% justified. to call voting you "throwing the game" is a terrible misinterpretation of the situation

Erm, like at least 1 of them is from scum, probably 2.

If you're town, you do have a genuine choice today between throwing the game and lynching me even though you basically know I'm town, or actually giving me the benefit of the doubt and having a chance of lynching scum. The defence of "You deserve to be lynched BM, because you were mean to me" or even "BM, you deserve to be lynched because you made a bad choice on a trap, despite otherwise playing a great obvtown game" ain't all that, but I won't labour the point.

[Morning Tweet]

Claim time.

I am a 3-shot Investigator. I can investigate someone and see if they rigged the game within the last 2 nights (excluding jigsaw)
- Night 1 I did nothing
- Night 2 I investigated iDanyboy/bingle. I got a negative result
- Night 3 I investigated BM. I got a negative result

Discuss.

So me and Bingle are conftown (or Jigsaw)? Sweet!

And by the way, if anyone seriously thinks I'm freaking Jigsaw, in the survivor hood, and deliberately bussed my only cover on Day 1, then put myself in traps 2/3 nights, you're ribbing.

Also this confirms Jigsaw is not the only one placing traps, so our previous discussion about killing Jigsaw ending the traps was wrong.

And for what it's worth, I don't think Bingle/Idanyboy is Jigsaw either. Would his team bus him so hard if he was? Would he have just replaced out, with his team in such a strong position? Not convinced of that.

Confirmed town is a bit of an exaggeration. If scum sets 2-3 traps each night, then only 2-3 members of the 4 member team would show up as guilty. Minus jigsaw. So 1-2 members.

Well.. GuiltyLion and TSE think you did bus. And at least half the living thread does as well. Also putting you in traps has done nothing but help the scumteam. so..

You notice how hard it's been to lynch Bingle? He almost gets less votes than ABR. Calling him getting "bussed hard" is not exactly the case

[VaultDweller]

Confirmed town is a bit of an exaggeration.

Agreed

[Battle Mage]

Oh I interpreted negative as guilty. That was really confusing for a moment.

The idea that it's ok to lynch me when I'm quite clearly town, but justifying it because of how I handled a trap, is lame. I've already said my piece on night actions, so won't be made to feel more guilty - last night was a bad move, night 1 was the right move. But gimme a break, aside from that, I've been all over this game, scumhunting to the max.

If you gave my setup theory the benefit of the doubt yesterday by lynching ABR we could be in a great position now. All the knowledge of flavour we have, has been completely wasted in this game - achieving no benefit for town (which is a crying shame if we're both town).

It isn't too late to actually try and win this game...

If I was scum here, do you really think I'd even care enough to spend time discussing anything, with the game virtually won? In contrast, ABR is just popping up frequently to gloat about being on the cusp of victory.

I don't think Dave is even voting for me, so setting this up as BM vs Dave is a wild stab in the dark.

I'm sticking with ABR, and that's final - we either lynch conf-scum today or it's game over, seems quite apt.

Confirm Vote: ABR

Quite clearly town is massively overselling yourself. I can see town!you making this choice in the game last night, so I can't really confirm you as scum over it, like many others in the thread have. It's making me very paranoid. You also massively overestimate your scumhunting abilities. It's really painful to read

You really never were able to convince me, nor anyone else of your flavour theory. It just didn't make sense to me. You couldn't have done anything different. It just sounds wrong. im sorry dude

I would say ABR sounds more like he thinks the game is lost due to you throwing than anything.

What does dave voting for you have to do with it?

I'm playing around with the idea of setting the lynch to someone entirely different from you on the chance it hits scum. Only problem is I really just want to lynch you and end the game. Vault is helping though.

If you and me are both town, and we lose this game, I will be quite disappointed. Because with the flavour stuff, we really should have had it in the bag if we'd worked together. And I'm not JUST blaming you in that scenario - it's my responsibility too, for not being able to persuade you. But really, we made a big mistake yesterday not going with it. Look at the setup so far - 3 mislynches for a scum win? Do you really think a flavour solve which town can theoretically crack, is game-breaking? I actually think it's essential, and rewards town for engaging properly with the theme of the game.

And MT - I never managed to convince you of

anything

. I think that's also on both of us, because you never really gave me the benefit of the doubt on anything from Day 3 onwards. But if we lynch ABR and he flips Amanda Young, maybe you'll actually go on and win this game?

[Morning Tweet]

We may as well go out swinging at the most likely scum player. Anyone buying that ABR is some nonchalant frustrated town who is throwing the game today, after all the effort he has put in, is mad.

every single vote on you is 100% justified. to call voting you "throwing the game" is a terrible misinterpretation of the situation

Erm, like at least 1 of them is from scum, probably 2.

If you're town, you do have a genuine choice today between throwing the game and lynching me even though you basically know I'm town, or actually giving me the benefit of the doubt and having a chance of lynching scum. The defence of "You deserve to be lynched BM, because you were mean to me" or even "BM, you deserve to be lynched because you made a bad choice on a trap, despite otherwise playing a great obvtown game" ain't all that, but I won't labour the point.

I don't blame them for using this tactic to get you lynched.

Leave Morning/Ircher alive, have BM make a dumbass choice in a trap, lead a quicklynch. He'll probably continue being a bit of a prick in thread, you'll be able to accuse him of being arrogant and guilt-tripping Morning into thinking she's the biggest anti-town idiot in the game, and bam BM is lynched.

I would not feel sorry at all letting them get away with that. I am generally more agreeable to more pleasant players.

I would, however, feel a lot of regret if you're scum and I stopped your lynch.

I think you're probably not scum. But is it worth the risk? Is it worth joining you on ABR? Not to mention I'd prefer.. anyone else on your wagon, probably

My current guess if you're town would probably be that Pisskop/ABR are the less likely scum on you, whereas BB/Fire are the more likely scum.

I still think Dave gets added onto that as well based off how he's played in this game as a whole, as well as his voting pattern. The guy has only voted for Hectic and Drixx

[Battle Mage]

Claim time.

I am a 3-shot Investigator. I can investigate someone and see if they rigged the game within the last 2 nights (excluding jigsaw)
- Night 1 I did nothing
- Night 2 I investigated iDanyboy/bingle. I got a negative result
- Night 3 I investigated BM. I got a negative result

Discuss.

So me and Bingle are conftown (or Jigsaw)? Sweet!

And by the way, if anyone seriously thinks I'm freaking Jigsaw, in the survivor hood, and deliberately bussed my only cover on Day 1, then put myself in traps 2/3 nights, you're ribbing.

Also this confirms Jigsaw is not the only one placing traps, so our previous discussion about killing Jigsaw ending the traps was wrong.

And for what it's worth, I don't think Bingle/Idanyboy is Jigsaw either. Would his team bus him so hard if he was? Would he have just replaced out, with his team in such a strong position? Not convinced of that.

Confirmed town is a bit of an exaggeration. If scum sets 2-3 traps each night, then only 2-3 members of the 4 member team would show up as guilty. Minus jigsaw. So 1-2 members.

Well.. GuiltyLion and TSE think you did bus. And at least half the living thread does as well. Also putting you in traps has done nothing but help the scumteam. so..

You notice how hard it's been to lynch Bingle? He almost gets less votes than ABR. Calling him getting "bussed hard" is not exactly the case

Do you look at every post I make with the intention of finding every possible way of disagreeing with everything? Regardless of alignment, you've made this really hard work

I don't care massively what TSE thought - given he replaced in and hadn't read the game at all, iirc? And this testimony presumably relies on Pisskop being town, which isn't guaranteed?

Bingle/Danyboy has been under pressure throughout - in a way which could indicate low-level scum, but unlikely to be a big scum power role.

It's possible I bussed, but it doesn't make any strategic sense. And also worth noting for future days, Firebringer is very familiar with my play as scum, and should know better than to be voting for me here. Although I don't know why I'm bothering to tell you this, as you won't ever listen to me anyway.

But I do maintain that, if you're scum, you've played exceptionally well in dominating the game, saving a buddy and avoiding much scrutiny.

[Morning Tweet]

If you and me are both town, and we lose this game, I will be quite disappointed. Because with the flavour stuff, we really should have had it in the bag if we'd worked together. And I'm not JUST blaming you in that scenario - it's my responsibility too, for not being able to persuade you. But really, we made a big mistake yesterday not going with it. Look at the setup so far - 3 mislynches for a scum win? Do you really think a flavour solve which town can theoretically crack, is game-breaking? I actually think it's essential, and rewards town for engaging properly with the theme of the game.

And MT - I never managed to convince you of

anything

. I think that's also on both of us, because you never really gave me the benefit of the doubt on anything from Day 3 onwards. But if we lynch ABR and he flips Amanda Young, maybe you'll actually go on and win this game?

If you're town I'll be a bit disappointed as well. I think you had a good ability to seem town, but your arrogance is a huge turn off. You're like ABR confidence-wise, but a lot less fun to play with

Three mislynches + We played out the traps really poorly (see Hectic, pisskop traps) + We vig shot a townie. Yeah, it's a tough game. I don't think the game being tough is a good reason for the game to have a game-breaking flavour solve. Who does your flavour solve still implicate, anyway? You keep calling me part of the scumteam for some reason. I'll reread your big post if you put it in there dont worry

You convinced me of momo, to an extent. In my mind I more remember Hectic giving the case though.

[Morning Tweet]

Do you look at every post I make with the intention of finding every possible way of disagreeing with everything? Regardless of alignment, you've made this really hard work

I don't care massively what TSE thought - given he replaced in and hadn't read the game at all, iirc? And this testimony presumably relies on Pisskop being town, which isn't guaranteed?

Bingle/Danyboy has been under pressure throughout - in a way which could indicate low-level scum, but unlikely to be a big scum power role.

It's possible I bussed, but it doesn't make any strategic sense. And also worth noting for future days, Firebringer is very familiar with my play as scum, and should know better than to be voting for me here. Although I don't know why I'm bothering to tell you this, as you won't ever listen to me anyway.

But I do maintain that, if you're scum, you've played exceptionally well in dominating the game, saving a buddy and avoiding much scrutiny.

Yeah and I don't think you've accepted being wrong a single time. Even after mislynching Xtoxm or giving scum two nightkills

I'm assuming Pisskop is town at this point, see earlier posts. Yeah TSE's reads aren't massively valuable to me. GL's are though

How does bussing not make any strategic sense???? What?

Stop putting the "if you're scum" bit at the bottom. If I'm scum you've already lost. There's no reason to talk to me if I'm scum

[Battle Mage]

We may as well go out swinging at the most likely scum player. Anyone buying that ABR is some nonchalant frustrated town who is throwing the game today, after all the effort he has put in, is mad.

every single vote on you is 100% justified. to call voting you "throwing the game" is a terrible misinterpretation of the situation

Erm, like at least 1 of them is from scum, probably 2.

If you're town, you do have a genuine choice today between throwing the game and lynching me even though you basically know I'm town, or actually giving me the benefit of the doubt and having a chance of lynching scum. The defence of "You deserve to be lynched BM, because you were mean to me" or even "BM, you deserve to be lynched because you made a bad choice on a trap, despite otherwise playing a great obvtown game" ain't all that, but I won't labour the point.

I don't blame them for using this tactic to get you lynched.

Leave Morning/Ircher alive, have BM make a dumbass choice in a trap, lead a quicklynch. He'll probably continue being a bit of a prick in thread, you'll be able to accuse him of being arrogant and guilt-tripping Morning into thinking she's the biggest anti-town idiot in the game, and bam BM is lynched.

I would not feel sorry at all letting them get away with that. I am generally more agreeable to more pleasant players.

I would, however, feel a lot of regret if you're scum and I stopped your lynch.

I think you're probably not scum. But is it worth the risk? Is it worth joining you on ABR? Not to mention I'd prefer.. anyone else on your wagon, probably

My current guess if you're town would probably be that Pisskop/ABR are the less likely scum on you, whereas BB/Fire are the more likely scum.

I still think Dave gets added onto that as well based off how he's played in this game as a whole, as well as his voting pattern. The guy has only voted for Hectic and Drixx

I'm very pleasant! MorningTweet, you seem like a genuinely nice person. I don't know if you're town or scum. For me personally, your play has been immensely frustrating because it has seemed to undercut and undermine everything I've tried to do. And I do think the way you've done it has looked very anti-town at times. And I do think you single-handedly saved ABR yesterday - if you had backed his lynch, we would have got it done. It's definitely not a personal thing against you, so I'm sorry if you feel that way. As I say, if you're town, you've just made it incredibly hard work for me by fighting at every turn when we could have worked together productively. Although as I say, I'm not convinced you're town anyway. If you are town, you need to let the personal feelings towards me go, and play the game as it was intended (to try and lynch the player most likely to be scum).