Newbie 2004: Trash Panada Hour. Redux! GAME OVER

[lilith2013]

I need more content from that slot to properly evaluate.

Like you say this, but then aren’t proactive about getting more content from copykat to develop your read

[votato]

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

the reason i voted you is not because you pressured gibus or unvoted. its because you didnt state reasoning for your vote which made it seem very opportunistic. and then i didnt like your ex post reasoning for the vote. you liking gibus' answer seems like you're just backtracking after getting called out. from the beginning it was clearly not a scumslip.

maybe you honestly just saw something that wasnt there, which is why im saying just go on playing and maybe youll do something to convince me you arent scum. your narrative around your voting patterns seems less likely to me than the alternative that i present. you havent addressed my thinking at all. your narrative is parallel and mutually exclusive, but you havent explained why i should reject my narrative and accept yours.

so you had a townread on me when you were voting me but now you're not sure so you unvoted me?

I had a town read on you.

There were a series of posts where I explained my vote on gibus and I didn't think you were making a good faith attempt to understand my side of things. I thought you could be scum.

After I calmed down I realized that my "scum" read on you was likely an emotional response so I unvoted.

Looking back at your ISO I still see some townie things but I have lingering doubts now

wishy. washy. why would you vote someone you townread? and now youre saying that your vote was pure OMGUS? you arent exactly making a great case for yourself here.

In all honesty, i cant decide if copykat is just noobtown 9r scum though. I need more content from that slot to properly evaluate. Interesting that of all the reads of all the people you chose that one, fish. Im continuing further and further down the road to fish and lilith being the scumpair. Or at least one of them.

oh really? heres a post quoting several other posts all of which were interactions with copykat. i tried to engage with that slot on several other occasions too.

[lilith2013]

Yeah, this is where I said you explained your vote on him but that’s it. Where else did you engage with copykat?

[votato]

Spoiler:

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

i meant that i dont see any merit in your case about gibus scumslipping, to clarify

copykat seems to have done a 180 here

You've addressed some posts I've made, but never 295

do you only read my posts if I address/quote you specifically?

i read through the entire ISO. you stated some reasons but thats different than explaining a thought process. its gonna take more to convince me, but maybe you can just convince me going forward by being more towny.

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

the reason i voted you is not because you pressured gibus or unvoted. its because you didnt state reasoning for your vote which made it seem very opportunistic. and then i didnt like your ex post reasoning for the vote. you liking gibus' answer seems like you're just backtracking after getting called out. from the beginning it was clearly not a scumslip.

maybe you honestly just saw something that wasnt there, which is why im saying just go on playing and maybe youll do something to convince me you arent scum. your narrative around your voting patterns seems less likely to me than the alternative that i present. you havent addressed my thinking at all. your narrative is parallel and mutually exclusive, but you havent explained why i should reject my narrative and accept yours.

UNVOTE:

I think I let myself get emotional. We will need to sort votato prior to lylo though.

pretty sure we need to sort everyone. I feel like you are backtracking again. What are your current reads?

so you had a townread on me when you were voting me but now you're not sure so you unvoted me?

I had a town read on you.

There were a series of posts where I explained my vote on gibus and I didn't think you were making a good faith attempt to understand my side of things. I thought you could be scum.

After I calmed down I realized that my "scum" read on you was likely an emotional response so I unvoted.

Looking back at your ISO I still see some townie things but I have lingering doubts now

wishy. washy. why would you vote someone you townread? and now youre saying that your vote was pure OMGUS? you arent exactly making a great case for yourself here.

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

the reason i voted you is not because you pressured gibus or unvoted. its because you didnt state reasoning for your vote which made it seem very opportunistic. and then i didnt like your ex post reasoning for the vote. you liking gibus' answer seems like you're just backtracking after getting called out. from the beginning it was clearly not a scumslip.

maybe you honestly just saw something that wasnt there, which is why im saying just go on playing and maybe youll do something to convince me you arent scum. your narrative around your voting patterns seems less likely to me than the alternative that i present. you havent addressed my thinking at all. your narrative is parallel and mutually exclusive, but you havent explained why i should reject my narrative and accept yours.

so you had a townread on me when you were voting me but now you're not sure so you unvoted me?

I had a town read on you.

There were a series of posts where I explained my vote on gibus and I didn't think you were making a good faith attempt to understand my side of things. I thought you could be scum.

After I calmed down I realized that my "scum" read on you was likely an emotional response so I unvoted.

Looking back at your ISO I still see some townie things but I have lingering doubts now

wishy. washy. why would you vote someone you townread? and now youre saying that your vote was pure OMGUS? you arent exactly making a great case for yourself here.

In all honesty, i cant decide if copykat is just noobtown 9r scum though. I need more content from that slot to properly evaluate. Interesting that of all the reads of all the people you chose that one, fish. Im continuing further and further down the road to fish and lilith being the scumpair. Or at least one of them.

[votato]

almost 1% of the thread is me engaging with copykat. There are more posts where I continue to engage with the replacement.

[lilith2013]

I don’t think this set of posts proves me wrong.. I missed a couple posts earlier on, but my point is that you said “I need more content from this slot to develop my read” in 596 and then didn’t try to get more content from the slot so that you could do that. Like you just wrote off this slot and haven’t attempted to interact with copykat or tuxedo since 596.

And my original point still stands, that you’re not really hard pushing anyone, even the people you’re scumreading and voting. Like even when you’re “pushing” copykat, you’re telling him to be more towny because you didn’t really feel strongly about scumreading him. I also don’t really see anything in the posts you quoted that I would categorize as engagement that helps you sort his slot.

Where are the posts where you interacted with tuxedo?

[gibus]

This looks odd. You are scumreading someone for not reaching a level of pro-town play on par to a non-existent benchmark which I'm sure most of us have not reached?

[lilith2013]

Is that @ me or votato?

[gibus]

Is that @ me or votato?

@wave and @lilith

[votato]

i guess there really arent any. maybe you're right. tbh i do feel pretty disengaged from this game. maybe i should do more to hard push the slot. but i dont feel like anyone else is really hardpushing anywhere either.

[lilith2013]

The scumreads on me and fish didn’t really go anywhere though, like he didn’t actively engage with either one of us or even copykat really to further develop the reads, and he didn’t really “go after” anyone in terms of hard pushes, so it seems he is playing the game at arm’s length. I think wavesarc made some good points - I don’t see a lot of pushing or gamesolving in votato’s posts.

This is the summary.

votato says he is scumreading people but makes no attempt to engage with them directly to develop his reads, he even says he needs more content from copykat to develop a read but then doesn’t try to get more content. So he’s not even trying to develop his reads. I don’t think this requires a particularly high skill level to do. If he was scumreading me and fish, why didn’t he question us about things he found scummy? If he says he needs more content from copykat, why doesn’t he interact with that slot further to try to understand copykat’s perspective and develop a read there? These are all things that town!votato would be actively doing in order to develop his reads and progress through the game.

[lilith2013]

but i dont feel like anyone else is really hardpushing anywhere either

?? Within the last few pages alone, Tuxedo has been pushing freddie hard and osuka called freddie confscum

[votato]

The scumreads on me and fish didn’t really go anywhere though, like he didn’t actively engage with either one of us or even copykat really to further develop the reads, and he didn’t really “go after” anyone in terms of hard pushes, so it seems he is playing the game at arm’s length. I think wavesarc made some good points - I don’t see a lot of pushing or gamesolving in votato’s posts.

This is the summary.

votato says he is scumreading people but makes no attempt to engage with them directly to develop his reads, he even says he needs more content from copykat to develop a read but then doesn’t try to get more content. So he’s not even trying to develop his reads. I don’t think this requires a particularly high skill level to do. If he was scumreading me and fish, why didn’t he question us about things he found scummy? If he says he needs more content from copykat, why doesn’t he interact with that slot further to try to understand copykat’s perspective and develop a read there? These are all things that town!votato would be actively doing in order to develop his reads and progress through the game.

wrong. those are things that motivated!votato would do regardless of alignment. as you say, theyre easy to do. easy to do as either alignment. the fact that im not doing them speaks to motivation, not to alignment. and lots of other people arent doing those things either. why only call me out lilith? and if this was a problem for a while, why only call me out after wave votes me?

[lilith2013]

Which reminds me, @Osuka can you explain your read on freddie? All I can find in your ISO is that you called one of her posts bland? Also, are you scumreading formerfish?

[lilith2013]

wrong. those are things that motivated!votato would do regardless of alignment. as you say, theyre easy to do. easy to do as either alignment. the fact that im not doing them speaks to motivation, not to alignment. and lots of other people arent doing those things either. why only call me out lilith? and if this was a problem for a while, why only call me out after wave votes me?

I already called out ironcat for doing something similarly minded when he pushed me; and I would push anyone else I noticed doing it. I gave you a bit of a free pass due to my early townlean and I only noticed that you weren’t engaging with people when wave voted you because I went back into your ISO.

I don’t think it’s easy for scum to do what I’m talking about, in fact I think it’s a really big scumtell when someone doesn’t want to interact with people directly, especially people they said they’re scumreading. I don’t think engagement vs disengagement with the game particularly impacts what I’m looking for, either.

[gibus]

Why Lilith? PoE?

Lilith and fish are scummy together

Why are they scummy together?

[votato]

well you're making two separate claims here. 1) i havent hard pushed anyone. 2) im not engaging with my scumreads.

1) no one is doing this one. it cant be that everyone not doing this is scum. it would be fine to make this argument by itself, but its getting conflated with 2.
2) i havent done much to engage any particular scum read. but i have made attempts to engage with quite a few different people. let's not take the "im not doing this at all" from point 1 and apply it to point 2. i have tried to engage a few people, but ill freely admit that my efforts have been somewhat limited compared to some other towngames. this isnt what my scum game looks like though. compare my posts here to my posts from GNR day 1 after my exchange with farside. its probably similar content.

[gibus]

If I'm not wrong, #965 is the expected confrontation lilith is looking for and that is fair

[votato]

Why Lilith? PoE?

Lilith and fish are scummy together

Why are they scummy together?

that was wayyyy too long ago for that question to be super relevant. but it was their interactions. I didnt buy their fight as TvT. They seemed to be agreeing about a lot of reads, and I didn't particularly like their reads. that suggests orchestration. Fish has since said that his posts were somewhat intentionally scummy as a gambit. If anything that makes lilith even more scummy since her posts agreed with someone who was being scummy on purpose.

[Freddiethelady]

the rest of the post read: I didn't think my explanation was a 'sudden abandonment'...it took me days to come to that, i said that, and i didn't vote someone else...where as FF did. he just said 'freddie, youre sus cause you changed your mind'. is that how we role? that points to a lot of scummy people here - im newbie, he isn't. im being thoughtful. he shouldn't be given a get out of jail free card for that one, in my opinion.
and no, i definitely don't think finding scum is that easy. you seem to think it is though - youre picking on the new kid saying im clever enough to be scum....while i appreciate the comment, i think lots of people here can see youre just wrong on this one.

Okay, this was the last thing I wanted to address last night. Freddie when I say your unvote was sudden, it is because it was. Read the game and your progression on Ironcat, it isn't in this game. Maybe it took you IRL days to reach that conclusion, but we can't see or prove that. All we have to go on is what you posted. So to us, it is sudden. Very earlier on Votato said the best way for us to town read people is for them to play the game. When you're keeping everything back because you're scared of how it'll make you look well then it makes you look bad.

Bad = scummy not bad = you suck.

Also, do stop using the newbie card on me. We joined at around the same time, and both only have one completed game. Something we replaced into late.

thats a good point. and re: newbie card, i will stop - youre absolutely right. its whinny and weak which i hate so thanks for calling me out. and for the record, you seem to be doing much better than i did the first time i subbed in...so cheers!

[Tuxedo Mask]

Okay.

VOTE: Osuka

[votato]

Okay.

VOTE: Osuka

hi there.
we noticed some unusual activity coming from your account, and wanted to confirm that the quoted post came from you. if this post came from you, please log into your account to confirm. if not, please provide the last four digits of your social security number.
thanks

[Formerfish]

Reality doesn't make sense anymore. Time is passing around me like a stream passes rocks at it's bed. And much like those rocks imma go lay down and sleep now. Nighty night.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Okay.

VOTE: Osuka

hi there.
we noticed some unusual activity coming from your account, and wanted to confirm that the quoted post came from you. if this post came from you, please log into your account to confirm. if not, please provide the last four digits of your social security number.
thanks

Hello,

a pleasure to hear from you. If you look into my recent activity you'll see this a natural progression of my reads. As I've interviewed other players, I've found many vocal supporters of Town!Freddie, but all those in favor of scum!Freddie have been silent. As for Freddie themselves, they've answered my questions and I've come away liking most of them. Now I am switching pressure to second scum read who has been dodging my questions. There isn't much time left you see.

P.S.
1234
I can also provide a credit card number and the three digits on the back, as well as my mother's maiden name.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Reality doesn't make sense anymore. Time is passing around me like a stream passes rocks at it's bed. And much like those rocks imma go lay down and sleep now. Nighty night.

Hey, seriously what do you think of Freddie's recent posts?

@Freddie, we do need scum reads from your slot. Time is running out.