Mini Normal 2141: The World of Tomorrow [Game over!]

[Blair]

Blair’s wagon theory does make sense but I would pursue Puppy over GammaGooey here.

Why?

[mavsfan41]

Whoops, forgot to do this:
VOTE: ready2rock

[Blair]

You also forgot to explain it.

[Blair]

R2R

- I’ve gotta go back and reread the interaction between him and NPOM and see if I think this is TvT. I’m leaning a vote here right now with the flip of NPOM. The reason I won’t is cause I don’t trust my reads right now

[Gammagooey]

@mavs - 702's in there because of him poking at VPB for a read on NPOM in it - VPB was already strongly scumreading r2r at that point, so asking him about NPOM is probably going to lead to one of two things - the likeliest answer is VPB says 'NPOM is <a read between slightly scummy and town> but not as scummy as you' and gives r2r a reason to vote NPOM. The less likely answer is 'oh yeah that's actually pretty damn scummy' which again gives cover for r2r to vote NPOM with everyone else.

702 tries to make him look like he's trying to get more info out of the wagon when I suspect he'd know that VPB was strongly scumreading him from VPB's #535 through #574 and then uses that in #782 as another reason to vote NPOM.

[votato]

I am ok with R2R wagon, but i also like puppies. gamma is towny to me. i suppose VOTE: puppy

[Blair]

[Blair]

"Ok, nobody respond to anything Blair says and mysteriously oppose a Gamma wagon without explanation." - A voice everybody but me can hear, apparently

[Gammagooey]

I am ok with R2R wagon, but i also like puppies. gamma is towny to me. i suppose VOTE: puppy

I dunno if I've mentioned it since near the start of day 1 but Puppy's felt really open about his reads and what he thinks about other people's opinions and I think that's very likely to come from town - like pulling this from his iso for example

Votato I lean town. I’m more torn on r2r/NPOM and think it’s likely one of them is scum. If both NPOM and votato are scum together they did one helluva convincing job since the early stages when Atarashi was still around. So I think if you wanted to suspect both, sure, but to suspect them both at the same time the way Nauci did it, no. I don’t really buy that.

Thinking votato is scum would be accepting that NPOM is town and vice versa.

I think Blair’s pursuit of Quick was misguided and off a premise that, sure, Quick had two contradictory thoughts of him being mysterious vs him being upfront, but I think that isn’t the greatest reasoning. It’s just Quick being Quick. But she has offered opinions outside of that conflict where I feel scum would naturally just tunnel in that situation and have no real motivation to move off or look towards other players. So sure, town for me rn.

i don't get how r2r fits into this

so u think nauci's progression doesn't make sense because she thinks npom/votato are scum, and there's no way they could both be scum, and this should be obvious to nauci. ok, with u so far

but now you say that votato is lean town, which means by your own logic that NPOM has to be scum, right? (see bolded.) so why are you torn on r2r/NPOM, isn't NPOM already looking scum to you just from votato/NPOM? Your process makes it look like Nauci is scummy for trying to have it both ways, but you look just as uncertain here

Like he's actively trying to figure out what people are thinking and why

I do think that he's wrong about you being scum but I pretty strongly think that he's town here

[VP Baltar]

@VP Baltar: where does Puppy’s LAMIST post compare with mine?

Yours is better as far as content, but my town read on puppy remains strong from yesterday.

Blair, how sure did you feel on your NPOM vote yesterday?

[mavsfan41]

@Blair: I like the content of GameyGooey over the content of Puppy. Puppy had the aggressive push of votato over a weak meta read. Other than that, Puppy’s posts are poking and prodding here and there. Maybe it’s a play style thing, but GammaGooey I feel has done more job building his cases to pursue players. (WIFOM-y hat on here: Also, if GameyGooey is right about you and R2R as scum buddies, couldn’t Dunnstral also be third scum hence all three on the wagon? And you would want to lead people to those not voting with the guise of “no way every scum is here” knowing it is? But this is a potential conversation to have at a much later date if R2R flips scum.) speaking of which....

As for my ready2rock vote, I had a potential pairing of votato/ready2rock (Mostly cause of how they both flipped to VP Baltar then NPOM seemingly together) that I wasn’t sure of day 1 and dismissed cause I read votato as town. I thought it was possibly for ready2rock of being scum but votato not. Now with the flip of NPOM as town, R2R looks scummy and I wanted to pursue a potential pairing of R2R/votato (hence my vote there earlier). Now I think there are more attractive pairings for R2R than votato. And I don’t want to get ahead of myself looking for scum pairing with R2R with the faulty premise of assuming R2R is scum. So let’s take a step back and focus on getting a better read on R2R as my day 1 pick of NPOM over him wasn’t ideal.

[votato]

hmm. momentum gets going on r2r and dunnstral, and in comes blair suggesting we look off-wagon instead. @blair maybe i need to reread that part of day 1. but i read gamma as towny here.

pedit: what mav said.

[Blair]

I do think that he's wrong about you being scum but I pretty strongly think that he's town here

This is an interesting post!

I double checked Puppy's ISO because this statement confused me. It turns out,

Puppy never said he was scumreading Mavs.

Which means one of two things:

1. Gamma is a fortune teller, and knew Puppy would be scumreading Mavs soon. (there is a sub-section of this option where Gamma is a very bad fortune teller and is wrong about this)

2. Gamma has a good reason to believe Puppy should be scumreading Mavs soon.

I like this second option, because the one thing I found in Puppy's ISO to suggest he might be open to scumreading Mavs was when Puppy said the Nauci/Mavs interaction felt "off" and might not be TvT.

That was Day 1, though, before Nauci flipped.

So Puppy says Nauci/Mavs doesn't look TvT, and then Nauci is killed for no apparent reason and flips Town. Then Gamma stumbles in and announces Puppy's scumread before Puppy says anything about it.

[Gammagooey]

I do think that he's wrong about you being scum but I pretty strongly think that he's town here

This is an interesting post!

I double checked Puppy's ISO because this statement confused me. It turns out,

Puppy never said he was scumreading Mavs.

Which means one of two things:

1. Gamma is a fortune teller, and knew Puppy would be scumreading Mavs soon. (there is a sub-section of this option where Gamma is a very bad fortune teller and is wrong about this)

2. Gamma has a good reason to believe Puppy should be scumreading Mavs soon.

I like this second option, because the one thing I found in Puppy's ISO to suggest he might be open to scumreading Mavs was when Puppy said the Nauci/Mavs interaction felt "off" and might not be TvT.

That was Day 1, though, before Nauci flipped.

So Puppy says Nauci/Mavs doesn't look TvT, and then Nauci is killed for no apparent reason and flips Town. Then Gamma stumbles in and announces Puppy's scumread before Puppy says anything about it.

yeah sure is weird that Puppy never said he was scumreading Mavs when I was replying to votato who is in fact a totally different person

[Blair]

Blair, how sure did you feel on your NPOM vote yesterday?

This seems like a question you should have been asking people yesterday? I'm not sure what valuable information you expect to get from asking people to elaborate on their scumreads on a flipped player.

But what the heck, I'll answer anyway: I felt very confident that NPOM was scum, or else so anti-town that he was an acceptable loss. I felt this way because of his strange behavior as the wagon approached hammer, which felt like either caught scum trolling the thread, or else someone not even remotely attempting to solve the game anymore.

I was disappointed by the flip, but catching scum day 1 isn't common enough for me to have been utterly shocked to my core.

[Blair]

@Gamma

You were pretty plainly talking to Votato about Puppy.

[Blair]

I am ok with R2R wagon, but i also like puppies. gamma is towny to me. i suppose VOTE: puppy

I dunno if I've mentioned it since near the start of day 1 but Puppy's felt really open about his reads and what he thinks about other people's opinions and I think that's very likely to come from town - like pulling this from his iso for example

Votato I lean town. I’m more torn on r2r/NPOM and think it’s likely one of them is scum. If both NPOM and votato are scum together they did one helluva convincing job since the early stages when Atarashi was still around. So I think if you wanted to suspect both, sure, but to suspect them both at the same time the way Nauci did it, no. I don’t really buy that.

Thinking votato is scum would be accepting that NPOM is town and vice versa.

I think Blair’s pursuit of Quick was misguided and off a premise that, sure, Quick had two contradictory thoughts of him being mysterious vs him being upfront, but I think that isn’t the greatest reasoning. It’s just Quick being Quick. But she has offered opinions outside of that conflict where I feel scum would naturally just tunnel in that situation and have no real motivation to move off or look towards other players. So sure, town for me rn.

i don't get how r2r fits into this

so u think nauci's progression doesn't make sense because she thinks npom/votato are scum, and there's no way they could both be scum, and this should be obvious to nauci. ok, with u so far

but now you say that votato is lean town, which means by your own logic that NPOM has to be scum, right? (see bolded.) so why are you torn on r2r/NPOM, isn't NPOM already looking scum to you just from votato/NPOM? Your process makes it look like Nauci is scummy for trying to have it both ways, but you look just as uncertain here

Like he's actively trying to figure out what people are thinking and why

I do think that he's wrong about you being scum but I pretty strongly think that he's town here

[Gammagooey]

@Gamma

You were pretty plainly talking to Votato about Puppy.

yeah, I was

I am ok with R2R wagon, but i also like puppies. gamma is towny to me. i suppose VOTE: puppy

I dunno if I've mentioned it since near the start of day 1 but Puppy's felt really open about his reads and what he thinks about other people's opinions and I think that's very likely to come from town - like pulling this from his iso for example

Votato I lean town. I’m more torn on r2r/NPOM and think it’s likely one of them is scum. If both NPOM and votato are scum together they did one helluva convincing job since the early stages when Atarashi was still around. So I think if you wanted to suspect both, sure, but to suspect them both at the same time the way Nauci did it, no. I don’t really buy that.

Thinking votato is scum would be accepting that NPOM is town and vice versa.

I think Blair’s pursuit of Quick was misguided and off a premise that, sure, Quick had two contradictory thoughts of him being mysterious vs him being upfront, but I think that isn’t the greatest reasoning. It’s just Quick being Quick. But she has offered opinions outside of that conflict where I feel scum would naturally just tunnel in that situation and have no real motivation to move off or look towards other players. So sure, town for me rn.

i don't get how r2r fits into this

so u think nauci's progression doesn't make sense because she thinks npom/votato are scum, and there's no way they could both be scum, and this should be obvious to nauci. ok, with u so far

but now you say that votato is lean town, which means by your own logic that NPOM has to be scum, right? (see bolded.) so why are you torn on r2r/NPOM, isn't NPOM already looking scum to you just from votato/NPOM? Your process makes it look like Nauci is scummy for trying to have it both ways, but you look just as uncertain here

Like he's actively trying to figure out what people are thinking and why

I do think that he's wrong about you being scum but I pretty strongly think that he's town here

In that the bolded statement is directed at votato, not mavs

[Quick]

More or less where I am rn. I was doing a reads list at the time hammer was done so didn't get it off before EoD, but at that point I had NPOM as Null, I think.

Gamma
VP, R2R, Atarashi
Dany, Puppy, mav<Null
Blair
votato
Dunn

Noteworthy, is that my method takes time to work, but it does work and I have concrete evidence of this seen here:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11822500

So when I get NKed, then is the time to take my reads seriously.

Also, I kinda hate Blairs response to one of my posts seen here:

@Blair...

We totally smoked 'em.

Fine, but only because you pinky-promised you'd help us lynch scum even if you are scum!

Going to vote it

VOTE: Blair

[votato]

I do think that he's wrong about you being scum but I pretty strongly think that he's town here

This is an interesting post!

I double checked Puppy's ISO because this statement confused me. It turns out,

Puppy never said he was scumreading Mavs.

Which means one of two things:

1. Gamma is a fortune teller, and knew Puppy would be scumreading Mavs soon. (there is a sub-section of this option where Gamma is a very bad fortune teller and is wrong about this)

2. Gamma has a good reason to believe Puppy should be scumreading Mavs soon.

I like this second option, because the one thing I found in Puppy's ISO to suggest he might be open to scumreading Mavs was when Puppy said the Nauci/Mavs interaction felt "off" and might not be TvT.

That was Day 1, though, before Nauci flipped.

So Puppy says Nauci/Mavs doesn't look TvT, and then Nauci is killed for no apparent reason and flips Town. Then Gamma stumbles in and announces Puppy's scumread before Puppy says anything about it.

yeah sure is weird that Puppy never said he was scumreading Mavs when I was replying to votato who is in fact a totally different person

wait im not puppy? im going to have to reevaluate some of my reads here. and yeah, gamma was pretty clearly talking to me there blair. read it in the context of being directed at me, and suddenly it makes sense no?

[Blair]

You would not BELIEVE how long this post was about to be before I finally got what you were saying. For some unknowable reason, I did initially think you were talking to mavs.

[Blair]

Quick, if Gamma is your top townread you are absolutely going to have to actually explain that one.

[Quick]

Quick, if Gamma is your top townread you are absolutely going to have to actually explain that one.

Sure. They have a low number of posts but by the looks of it, they engage meaningfully with other people. Also keep in mind that my reads list is very rough at this point. It will take more time to develop, but once the game has gone on long enough, that is when it can pretty much nail every single Scum in the game. It gains a lot of momentum on a Scum flip as well as it clears people from being Scum which is very valuable because it essentially makes people into an innocent child given the Scum who got lynched interacted with Town in a certain way.

[votato]

basically quick's system for solving the game is the same way the rest of us play, except he thinks hes wayyyyy smarter.

[Blair]

They have a low number of posts but by the looks of it, they engage meaningfully with other people.

This merits top townread status?