Mini Normal 2141: The World of Tomorrow [Game over!]

[midwaybear]

Ok votato. I am town reading mavs fan and scumrewding VP Baltar. It is based on tone. I though NPOM was a reasonable lynch, and yes I will vote.

[Quick]

Nice 6 post read

are you gonna answer any of my questions? you have said that you're reading but you havent contributed anything. not even shitposts. its a total void.

True statement.

Also, it should be noted that votato is Efforting this game. Hence, getting a solid read there is going to actually be pretty difficult because I think votato usually plays Town based on kinda sorta saying the opposite of what is true and just letting that hang forcing people to think about what they (she?) is saying. The fact that votato is trying this game could mean they are Town or it could just mean they like the players in this game.

[votato]

Ok votato. I am town reading mavs fan and scumrewding VP Baltar. It is based on tone. I though NPOM was a reasonable lynch, and yes I will vote.

any other reads? what posts are these based on?

[Blair]

In my view, VP Baltar and R2R are not scum together.

Quick, you didn't include that pairing in your "Not SvS" list - what am I missing?

[midwaybear]

I will say more later. I am observing now. Much thank

[Quick]

In my view, VP Baltar and R2R are not scum together.

Quick, you didn't include that pairing in your "Not SvS" list - what am I missing?

By all means.. show me where R2R and VP are Not SvS.

[votato]

I will say more later. I am observing now. Much thank

so you dont have firm reads yet?

[Blair]

In my view, VP Baltar and R2R are not scum together.

Quick, you didn't include that pairing in your "Not SvS" list - what am I missing?

By all means.. show me where R2R and VP are Not SvS.

Scum!VP does not jump into the middle of QuickVsBlair at 517 to hard-bus scum!R2R (who was only being voted by NPOM at the time), and then actively try to break up QuickVsBlair to make us engage with his hard-bus.

That would be a colossal unforced error. VP is basically the reason the R2R wagon even existed, and he pushed it hard. So hard, in fact, that it's still a wagon today.

If VP/R2R is a scum pair, then VP hard-bussed his partner into a viable lynch wagon, when his partner was previously only being voted for by the day's eventual lynch, and then

actively sought to break up a fight

between two other players in order to bring more focus onto his hard-bus.

[Quick]

In my view, VP Baltar and R2R are not scum together.

Quick, you didn't include that pairing in your "Not SvS" list - what am I missing?

By all means.. show me where R2R and VP are Not SvS.

Scum!VP does not jump into the middle of QuickVsBlair at 517 to hard-bus scum!R2R (who was only being voted by NPOM at the time), and then actively try to break up QuickVsBlair to make us engage with his hard-bus.

That would be a colossal unforced error. VP is basically the reason the R2R wagon even existed, and he pushed it hard. So hard, in fact, that it's still a wagon today.

If VP/R2R is a scum pair, then VP hard-bussed his partner into a viable lynch wagon, when his partner was previously only being voted for by the day's eventual lynch, and then

actively sought to break up a fight

between two other players in order to bring more focus onto his hard-bus.

It could very well be a bus. Why are you ruling that out?

[votato]

r2r has yet to give a single confident original read. everything has been hedged, most reads are wishy washy and neutral.

Spoiler: r2r analysis

OK hey everyone

-Overall thoughts on votato are that I don't love some of the things he's saying, for instance, I find it kind of amusing how in post 80 he's talking about how there's "so many votes to place" and that he's suspicious of a ton of people, then a few pages later keeps repeatedly insisting that it's way too early to determine anything. Also not a fan of 301 when he misinterprets what puppy is saying. On the other hand, his overall style and tone feels too abrasive and overly defensive, which I feel like would be really bad for scum to do this early. Not sure what to make of him atm.

-Agreed on Quick v Blair being TvT

-Do agree that more scum may be hiding among the more inactive, and yes I realize that's coming from me leave me alone it's been a long day and I'm tired

-Among active people, I think my biggest suspicion is on VP, as he seems to be trying to jump on minor more obvious things people say

pedit: OK was about to vote and wanted to look for the last vote count first and 2 new votes on VP happened, brb gonna go count

"wishy washy on votato, agree with some other people"

@Umlaut: Does scum have daytalk?

DENIED.

That is WAY too many to "show you are Town" so...

VOTE: Nauci

I don't buy this line of reasoning, I can't honestly see a scum!Nauci somehow thinking she's so clever by oh so subtly slipping out a towntell

eh this isnt really hedged but doesnt really do much either

Possibly, I suppose I'll revise and say that I don't think it's any more likely to come from scum trying to plant the idea than town trying to determine gamestate

For the record I lean slight town on her in general, and I don't think this affects that read either way

but here comes the hedge.

So your case on me revolves around me misreading the vote count? That's pretty flimsy, which to me strengthens my case that you latch onto minor flimsy mistakes that people make.

Here's my timeline, I reread the thread and posted my thoughts on the game as a whole at that moment, voicing my suspicion of VP among other things. In that time, there were almost 10 new posts made, including both votes on VP. Since I wanted to get my post out there before even more happened, and I hadn't payed a ton of attention to a specific number of votes in the meantime, I wanted to go back and double check that I wasn't putting you at L-1 or anything. When I went back and read, I realized that I had read a vote on you and someone else quoting a vote on you as 2 votes, hence why I was saying that I was the 2nd vote. But now that I'm rereading again today, I realize I was right the first time and didn't see votato's vote in double checking

I don't understand what the difference would be between me being 2nd or 3rd on the wagon?

Also, is me being scum dependent on votato being scum, or the other way around? If one is town, is the other still scum?

@Blair My read on quick is slight town, though I find some of the way he's been responding to some people quite unhelpful. He explained his thought process in a lot of detail to me last night, but then to other people say that he doesn't see the point of trying to explain. I also think he's gonna be the hardest to read for me, so I don't want to push anything on him day 1 anyways

explaining the vote count error thing, then a weak read on quick

@ready2rock: in 403 you mention votato and imply he’s scummy more than he’s town, but then do backtrack that a little. Any thoughts on him now? Also, why place the vote on VP Baltar vs votato when voting in 409 after previously believing votato scum and not even expressing an opinion on VP Baltar previously or even when you placed your vote?

I think if you read back my post you'll see that my read on him was pretty much neutral. I'd basically said that I wasn't a big on his style out the gate, but I'm not sure that scum would be so abrasive this early (e.g. his "fuck you" post). I also think his posts have gotten a bit better as the game has progressed, including since I've made that post, though still hit and miss on how strong his reasoning is.

So yeah, some good, some bad, overall neutral

My overall point about VP is that I think he's mostly the one who I think has been going for the low hanging fruit in the way that people are accusing votato of doing

@Quick Any more specific reasoning to share behind your townread on VP?

"So yeah, some good, some bad, overall neutral" that says it all. the thing about VP is ok maybe? eh

You know what, I can get on board with this

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

I think his cases in general have been very flimsy, which wasn't enough for me in and of itself, but the fact that you're pointing out of him being inconsistent with the supposed basis behind his reads has swayed me

Am still keeping an eye on VP though. List coming shortly because I probably should have a while ago

a vote because NPOM wasnt doing enough good solving? this seems like sheeping with a weaker version of the read that other people were giving.

Town: Blair, Atarashi, Puppy

Lean town: Quick, Nauci

Neutral (because I'm uncertain on my read): Mavs, Votato

Neutral (because there isn't enough to go on): Peter Pan, Gamma, iDany

Lean Scum: NPOM, VP

hey look, a readlist. but as we've seen the reasoning is pretty meh. also, most of the reads come after people specifically asked. the people not asked about? theres no read.

Putting pressure on is not the same as tunneling.

On Atarashi, it's nothing super deep, just like the posts they've made early, and didn't really love the case being made against him, but we'll have to see how they are when they come back

an admittedly weak read.

I think I've pinpointed the main issue I have with NPOM, which is that he's boiling down the game into very simplistic terms. Lurking is scummy. Hesitation is town. People on wagons are scummy.

What I find scummy about that is that it's easy and convenient to then take that and fit people into nice little boxes, and even have your read go wildly back and forth, without really having to justify it all that much, and to meld those broad generalizations into whatever read suits you at that point in the game

@VP Thoughts on NPOM and his case/wagon? (want this answered before I reapply my vote)

@Mod

Should Atarashi get a prod, or am I misreading prod timers?

ehhhh i guess this counts as content

Couple of thoughts

Starting to raise some eyebrows at Nauci, particularly the way she seems to be indirectly defending NPOM to Quick. Still leaning town, but might be worth looking at if NPOM flips scum, which I'm feeling better and better about.

Mavs is coming across as more town to me, feels much more like he's actively participating and scumhunting rather than searching for tiny details to nitpick.

I have noticed that votato has changed his tone since the start of the game, and it seems to have taken the target off his back. Not sure if this is a scumtell in and of itself, but may affect my read if other things come to light

i dont remember nauci's reads, but this could implicate r2r in the murder maybe. sheeps a consensus mav read, and then takes my being townread as reason not to townread me.

pedit: blair isnt ruling out the possibility of a bus, shes arguing for why it isnt a bus

[Blair]

In my view, VP Baltar and R2R are not scum together.

Quick, you didn't include that pairing in your "Not SvS" list - what am I missing?

By all means.. show me where R2R and VP are Not SvS.

Scum!VP does not jump into the middle of QuickVsBlair at 517 to hard-bus scum!R2R (who was only being voted by NPOM at the time), and then actively try to break up QuickVsBlair to make us engage with his hard-bus.

That would be a colossal unforced error. VP is basically the reason the R2R wagon even existed, and he pushed it hard. So hard, in fact, that it's still a wagon today.

If VP/R2R is a scum pair, then VP hard-bussed his partner into a viable lynch wagon, when his partner was previously only being voted for by the day's eventual lynch, and then

actively sought to break up a fight

between two other players in order to bring more focus onto his hard-bus.

It could very well be a bus. Why are you ruling that out?

It's not impossible, but as I've laid out in the above:

If that was a bus, it was extraordinarily reckless and unnecessary - VP seems fairly competent, so I doubt this was an unforced error from scum.

[Quick]

@votato: some people don't generate reads (or solid ones) until later in the game. Are you aware of this?

[Quick]

In my view, VP Baltar and R2R are not scum together.

Quick, you didn't include that pairing in your "Not SvS" list - what am I missing?

By all means.. show me where R2R and VP are Not SvS.

Scum!VP does not jump into the middle of QuickVsBlair at 517 to hard-bus scum!R2R (who was only being voted by NPOM at the time), and then actively try to break up QuickVsBlair to make us engage with his hard-bus.

That would be a colossal unforced error. VP is basically the reason the R2R wagon even existed, and he pushed it hard. So hard, in fact, that it's still a wagon today.

If VP/R2R is a scum pair, then VP hard-bussed his partner into a viable lynch wagon, when his partner was previously only being voted for by the day's eventual lynch, and then

actively sought to break up a fight

between two other players in order to bring more focus onto his hard-bus.

It could very well be a bus. Why are you ruling that out?

It's not impossible, but as I've laid out in the above:

If that was a bus, it was extraordinarily reckless and unnecessary - VP seems fairly competent, so I doubt this was an unforced error from scum.

Sure, except Scum had Day Chat...

[votato]

@votato: some people don't generate reads (or solid ones) until later in the game. Are you aware of this?

yes, in fact I am one of those people. midway isnt though.

[Blair]

An excerpt from scum daychat in Quick's universe:

R2R

- This is great! Quick and Blair are drowning the thread in a fruitless debate!

VP

- Yeah, now would be a great time for me to bus you!

R2R

- Sure, we can put some distance between us! Just make sure you don't push it too hard, we don't want to steal the spotlight.

VP

- I was thinking I'd pound out some wallposts calling you a blatant liar and detailing all the scummy things you've done.

R2R

- Huh... yeah, I guess, if you think it's really necessary to put as much distance between us as possible. Just make sure you don't overshadow the Blair/Quick fight.

VP

- I was actually thinking I'd try my best to shut that whole fight down, actually, and push everybody to focus extra hard on how scummy you are.

R2R

- Okayyyy... but only for a little while, right? I mean, only NPOM is voting for me now so I should be pretty safe from a strong push as long as it's short-lived.

VP

- I figured I'd just keep pushing this non-stop until you're lynched! If you aren't lynched today I'll keep pushing it tomorrow, too!

R2R

- ... I hate you.

[midwaybear]

heehee

[midwaybear]

@votato: some people don't generate reads (or solid ones) until later in the game. Are you aware of this?

yes, in fact I am one of those people. midway isnt though.

bruh stop roasting me
I already gave reads too(even though they were tonereads)

[votato]

@votato: some people don't generate reads (or solid ones) until later in the game. Are you aware of this?

yes, in fact I am one of those people. midway isnt though.

bruh stop roasting me
I already gave reads too(even though they were tonereads)

right. and why arent you giving more? do you have no thoughts? not one post has pinged you? not one person? there's 40 pages of content and a couple flips by now. its safe to come out and make reads.

[midwaybear]

Stop exaggerating when I already said I TR mavsfan and SR VP Baltar
I will find some posts chillax

[votato]

>>> gives reads
>>> waits
>>> goes and finds reasons to have those reads

[midwaybear]

what's your point

[ready2rock]

Hey all, I'll be catching up on the thread over the next hour or so, and going back and looking at people I had null-scum reads on yesterday, so let me know if there's anything you want me to address.

[Blair]

Gamma.

I want you to address Gamma.

With a vote, preferably.

[Blair]

This is why:

There is a lot of speculation about scum being on the NPOM wagon - which is fair, because more than half the game was on that wagon. Unless you think ALL the scum were on that wagon, however, we should probably be looking just as hard at the people who were off of it:

All seven voters from the NPOM wagon are alive today, only four of the people who were off of that wagon are alive today.

I like my odds better hunting in the group of four than the group of seven today. I do not believe it is likely that the entire scum team jumped on the Day 1 mislynch together.

That leaves at least one scum in here:

Gammagooey
VP Baltar
CantLynchAPuppy
iDanyboy

Out of that group, we can hunt for people who seemed to avoid the wagon in anticipation of a town flip. My best guesses there are Gamma and Puppy.

Gamma seemed to be reaching really hard to find a defense of NPOM where there wasn't one in their back and forth with me shortly before the lynch (not saying there was no good defense of NPOM, but the one Gamma chose fell apart upon inspection - even NPOM didn't go along with it). Gamma had very few posts during Day 1, and this awkward conversation made up about 30% of them.

Puppy swooped in to support a counterwagon with a pretty flimsy post shortly before the lynch as well.

Of those two, Gamma seems more likely to flip scum to me.

VOTE: Gammagooey

[votato]

what's your point

usually the reasons cause the reads, and it isnt the other way around.