Newbie 2004: Trash Panada Hour. Redux! GAME OVER

[Tuxedo Mask]

What the hell was that? Why did you hammer Freddie, seriously?

Why are you upset? You're on the wagon too? You should want Freddie to hang...

I don't want him flash lynched without a claim. Also, I'm not sure what's optimal but it isn't best to just lynch the person who claimed VT, instead of potentially risking out Freddie as PR. Though it's all moot. You didn't hammer. Well played.

[lilith2013]

Okay so here's the main posts I was looking at for timing of the wagons:

Fish votes brass.

VOTE: Brass

Let's dance.

osuka votes freddie shortly after.

Hola, also had some mafia history in other places. Have never played a mafia game which lasted this long tho. I don't get the vote for Votato so VOTE:

gibus

this is known as the RVS, or Random Vote Stage, where people vote for silly reasons to get the game started, and then we gradually progress to more serious posting as we get a few bandwagons going.

Fine, VOTE: votato

you shouldn't flipflop like that makes you look flaky

VOTE: imironcat

that's very scummy
VOTE: freddiethelady

gibus votes brass and nauci says she is scumleaning brass.

Do not scumread me for this please, but I'm going to sheep Fish and Nauci and change my vote in 3 posts.
VOTE: brassherald (wavesarc)

Tuxedo Mask makes a big case on freddie shortly after.

Spoiler: Freddie ISO

Gibus seems too sloppy to be suspicious but it could be an act.

I’m suspicious that Lilith is a little more experienced then she’s letting on. I’m not sure why she jumped on the gibus wagon either. I’d love to hear an explanation since it could be AI.

I still don't think this has been answered. It seems like the start of Freddie's Lilith read, which is pretty rocky ground.

I’m trying to learn the distinction also. its like throwing darts at a wall. I think the simple answer is that scum will try to be as inconspicuous as possible. Paying close attention to what a person says and how they say can Give you subtle hints. I’m not good at this yet but a healthy dose of skepticism will help you start to weed out leading clues vs gibberish. It’s not rocket surgery but it does take some practice.

Applying your thought process here, have you uncovered subtle hints in what people are saying? And would agree that applying this logic to your own posts would read them as scummy?

Gibus you’re like a ping pong ball with your votes. It’s looking sloppy and thoughtless. At some point I’m going to ask you to justify that. Are you prepared to do that?

This is a weird question. Why not ask him to justify them now? This feels like you have clocked an easy push and are just holding back for an opportune moment.

Lilith hasn’t posted much lately, has she? I wonder why. Ive been suspicious of her without being able to collect my thoughts or any evidence (if in fact there is any) against her yet.

This happened 7 irl days ago, and over HALF the game ago. Yet they have still done nothing with this. Where is the evidence Freddie? Where are the reads?

So reading Freddie I don't find scum hunting, it is mostly excuses and questions about site stuff. There is very little pushes or curiosity. I also read through their ISO of Newbie 1997 and they feel very different there. For one, they replaced into that game and have nearly as many posts there as they do here. And in that game, they don't seem nearly as lost and unsure, constantly pursuing things and asking questions. This really feels like scum that doesn't know what to say.

VOTE: Freddiethelady

waves then tries to start a votato wagon almost immediately after Tuxedo's freddie case

@everyone that is townreading votato: why?

VOTE: votato btw

also osuka starts hard-pushing freddie shortly after that

freddie is confscum by the way

What do you make of this? I appreciate the consolidation of the points but what motivated you to make that? What was your point?

fish asked me to provide evidence of how I came to the conclusion that you were a counterwagon to waves... did you read my previous posts?

[lilith2013]

@Freddie why aren't you voting FF? And what about FF do you find scummy?
Do you scum read Copycat/Me? But I'm most interested in your read of Copycat's posts. And do you scum read Osuka/Ironcat? I'm more interested in your thoughts on Osuka's posts though.

Freddie, can you answer this?

Ironcat was unvoted by me. We established that, I could have been wrong but it seemed reasonable to me so I acted on it. Osuka has been just shitting on everyone’s posts and being loud. The loudness may be an attempted substance but I can’t read it yet.

Fish, what’s a vanity vote?

I’m not voting fish atm because I think he’s scummy but it might be deliberate. It reminds me of the quote “I think a servant of the enemy would look fairer and feel fouler”. I’m still not sure enough to vote him, which is why I never voted him.

How do I officially claim my role? Do I send a screen shot of my message from Elmo? I’m not scum.

Vanity vote is a vote on a wagon that has no legs, you vote there because youre vain and think you know better.

You claim by saying what you are, if youre a town pr I would just say PR for right now, so we dont clue scum in anymore than needed.

Uh... I think it's worse to claim PR because scum would still kill townPR!freddie but no one would be able to counterclaim scum!freddie, whereas if you claim the name then there's an opportunity for counterclaim by town PR. town!freddie gets killed either way.

[Formerfish]

You don't think that's all scum needs?

No, i dont.

We have the potential to have more than 1 pr, but we dont really want scum to know what prs are in the game because they can prioritize their night kill attempts based on whats going to do the most damage to town. If they dont know which PR someone is then they dont know if they are killing a cop or a neighbor. We want them to have the least amount of info that we can give them while still allowing us to sort each other and kill scum.

If we tell them all our secrets then we are fucked, if we hold our cards close to our chest we keep them guessing.

[wavesarc]

Right. I'm questioning why you're saying that to freddie when he clearly intends to claim, even though he wasn't actually hammered

[Formerfish]

Uh... I think it's worse to claim PR because scum would still kill townPR!freddie but no one would be able to counterclaim scum!freddie, whereas if you claim the name then there's an opportunity for counterclaim by town PR. town!freddie gets killed either way.

Its the only thing we can wifom the scum about.

If we had freddie claim then they would know to shoot him or not. If we had him claim PR they have to guess whether to kill him or not and have no ability to maneuver over night.

[Formerfish]

Right. I'm questioning why you're saying that to freddie when he clearly intends to claim, even though he wasn't actually hammered

Hes a newbie and i hammer tested him, i expected him to crack a little.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@lilith you gave hammer intent, what do you think of Wave's claim?

[wavesarc]

I agree with lilith that town!freddie becomes the nk target, though. If he's a PR and doesn't actually need to claim, why let that happen?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Right. I'm questioning why you're saying that to freddie when he clearly intends to claim, even though he wasn't actually hammered

Hes a newbie and i hammer tested him, i expected him to crack a little.

What would a town reaction be versus a scum reaction?

[Formerfish]

I agree with lilith that town!freddie becomes the nk target, though. If he's a PR and doesn't actually need to claim, why let that happen?

I didnt tell him to claim, i told him how to if he did.

[wavesarc]

I interpreted freddie's reaction as "I'm ready to claim"

[Formerfish]

Right. I'm questioning why you're saying that to freddie when he clearly intends to claim, even though he wasn't actually hammered

Hes a newbie and i hammer tested him, i expected him to crack a little.

What would a town reaction be versus a scum reaction?

Thats not something that I can boil down to a few words, if youd like to talk to me more about it after the game we can discuss.

Basically you are looking for a genuine reaction, and you're hoping for the off chance that they break rank and admit we got them as scum and gg without realizing they werent hammered for reals.

[Formerfish]

I interpreted freddie's reaction as "I'm ready to claim"

Ok, happy to hear it.

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Waves

You scum bro?

[wavesarc]

Nope

[Formerfish]

Well shit, any final words then?

[Formerfish]

When you see Brass in the dead thread ask him why he was such a twat to me this game if he was town.

[wavesarc]

So yeah, I was genuine about not being able to get into the game. wanted to try playing again because it was fun and all when I did--as in energizing, but it wasn't at all this time and I couldn't engage. Sorry--no one's fault but my own

[wavesarc]

anyway, stan ironcat lol

[wavesarc]

Legit had a nullscum read on my slot when I thought I was copykat. Oh well

[Formerfish]

anyway,

stan

ironcat lol

This stan?

[Freddiethelady]

@Freddie why aren't you voting FF? And what about FF do you find scummy?
Do you scum read Copycat/Me? But I'm most interested in your read of Copycat's posts. And do you scum read Osuka/Ironcat? I'm more interested in your thoughts on Osuka's posts though.

Freddie, can you answer this?

Ironcat was unvoted by me. We established that, I could have been wrong but it seemed reasonable to me so I acted on it. Osuka has been just shitting on everyone’s posts and being loud. The loudness may be an attempted substance but I can’t read it yet.

Fish, what’s a vanity vote?

I’m not voting fish atm because I think he’s scummy but it might be deliberate. It reminds me of the quote “I think a servant of the enemy would look fairer and feel fouler”. I’m still not sure enough to vote him, which is why I never voted him.

How do I officially claim my role? Do I send a screen shot of my message from Elmo? I’m not scum.

Vanity vote is a vote on a wagon that has no legs, you vote there because youre vain and think you know better.

You claim by saying what you are, if youre a town pr I would just say PR for right now, so we dont clue scum in anymore than needed.

do NOT send a screenshot. you cant quote or anything like that. you dont need to claim since no one has stated intent to hammer. a vanity wagon is one that doesnt have momentum, so basically wasting your vote on a non-wagon. also, are you feeling FF to know how foul he feels?

Okay, guys. My role is VT. I’m shit at lying. I’m just bad at this game! Did waves officially claim also?

Thanks for the vanity-vote explanation.

I’m trying to feel him. But I think he’s not scum. Gut feeling.

I think they are going to get me either way and I have no PR. Hahaha I’m so bad strategically. I’m like the squirrel in the Rose that gets killed cause I’m indecisive! Bye everyone

[Formerfish]

Freddie, why the fuck did you claim?

[wavesarc]

well, freddie, i'm dead