Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[Ame]

I don't quite understand what is to be upset about, particularly considering that ABR was the counter wagon. The only difference between lynching the two is that I wouldn't come into the day shading you and Titus for being incorrect and ignoring my reasons for why he was town.

[Raven Branwen]

The rules explicitely say that it is instant:

During any day or night, any player may PM us to spend some XP to upgrade their role. Each role has a different unique upgrade, and each role has an upgrade cost that is between 2 and 4 (and is known to the player). When a player

upgrades during a phase

, they will learn their new role at the end of that phase.

Where does it say it’s “instant”?

And even if I

could

and the mod tells me that it is a bad wording in the rules...

I won`t.

Why wouldn’t you? And why did you reject Raya’s gift in order to train? You literally never mentioned anything about an upgrade.

Stop making excuses and just cancel it

I cannot cancel it.

You are lieing

I haven`t tried it, and I

won`t

. It would be pro-scum to cancel upgrade.

How is cancelling an upgrade “pro-scum”?

That literally just reads as I don’t want to
Even if I make something up along the lines of “you’re lieing” like I did (because knowing SS I think you would be able to cancel it), for whatever reason, you just don’t want to, and I am trying to expose that.

yeah why should I cancel? It just denies town info on flip.

How does this make any sense?

I think you are lying about the upgrade or else you wouldn’t be so opposed to canceling it.

[Raven Branwen]

I don't quite understand what is to be upset about, particularly considering that ABR was the counter wagon. The only difference between lynching the two is that I wouldn't come into the day shading you and Titus for being incorrect and ignoring my reasons for why he was town.

Because you ignored our reads and it was a really bad antitown play to mislynch Creature and you were disrespecting both me and Titus by ignoring it. I standby what I said about it and Ali even temp voted you for it, so it was a godawful mislynch but it’s way more likely that NK15 is lying about his upgrade than you treestumped a buddy.

I’m pissed because Creature was practically locktown for me, not one of the iffy slots I could have possibly been persuaded on and for all of the reasons I already stated. The mod would have also agreed to have given us an extension because of not responding in a timely manner to critically important questions but they told me, that they couldn’t cancel his lynch, even if he hadn’t had been flipped yet. To be fair to you, Creature was posting elsewhere when his being active in the game could have also made a difference. I get really upset when I’m extremely confident on a tr and it gets completely ignored like that. You even briefly accused Titus of having a tmi read on him, I think that angered me the most.

Anyway, I think NK15 refusing to cancel an upgrade, he never even mentioned yesterday is probably scum indicative.

VOTE: NK15

[Not Known 15]

Role Name: Vanilla Townie
Abilities and Cost: None
Actions during each phase:Train Night 2
Anything else relevant:Forgot to train Night 1

XP
Starting XP (from your role PM):1
XP at the end of D1:1
XP at the end of Quest 1:1
XP at the end of N1:2
XP at the end of D2:2
XP at the end of N2:3
Current XP:3

XP needed to upgrade:4
Have you upgraded (yes/no):no

Excuse me...

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: NK

I have 0 xp. So... that means I cannot vengekill.

Didn’t you claim you would train last night? How can you only have 0?

Because I already chose to upgrade this day...

@NK

1. Why did you not state you forgot to train earlier?
2. How did you forget to train?
3. If you are low on XP why are you not voting for Pokerus?
4.

Why are you ignoring that SpringRaven has been spewed town by kerset

5. Where do you believe Raya was acting defensively and based on the examples you give, how do you think she should have reacted to them?
6. What is your read on GinnieSoulEnergy and MomoSae?

Also if you're low on XP why didn't you ask me for XP when I offered at the start of the day?

I don`t need you to give me xp next night. I can train. Then I have 4xp and can upgrade.

Actually, this does check out,

UNVOTE:

@NK15, cancel your upgrade or I’m revoting you.

[Ame]

Because you ignored our reads and it was a really bad antitown play to mislynch Creature and you were disrespecting both me and Titus by ignoring it. I standby what I said about it and Ali even temp voted you for it, so it was a godawful mislynch but it’s way more likely that NK15 is lying about his upgrade than you treestumped a buddy.

I’m pissed because Creature was practically locktown for me, not one of the iffy slots I could have possibly been persuaded on and for all of the reasons I already stated. The mod would have also agreed to have given us an extension because of not responding in a timely manner to critically important questions but they told me, that they couldn’t cancel his lynch, even if he hadn’t had been flipped yet. To be fair to you, Creature was posting elsewhere when his being active in the game could have also made a difference. I get really upset when I’m extremely confident on a tr and it gets completely ignored like that. You even briefly accused Titus of having a tmi read on him, I think that angered me the most.

ABR is was lock town for me and you and Titus "disrespected" my read by ignoring how he couldn't be scum. Your PoE isn't the only one that matters. We all have our own perspectives.

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: NK

I have 0 xp. So... that means I cannot vengekill.

Didn’t you claim you would train last night? How can you only have 0?

Because I already chose to upgrade this day...

@NK

1. Why did you not state you forgot to train earlier?
2. How did you forget to train?
3. If you are low on XP why are you not voting for Pokerus?
4.

Why are you ignoring that SpringRaven has been spewed town by kerset

5. Where do you believe Raya was acting defensively and based on the examples you give, how do you think she should have reacted to them?
6. What is your read on GinnieSoulEnergy and MomoSae?

Also if you're low on XP why didn't you ask me for XP when I offered at the start of the day?

I don`t need you to give me xp next night. I can train. Then I have 4xp and can upgrade.

Actually, this does check out,

UNVOTE:

@NK15, cancel your upgrade or I’m revoting you.

Why? Because cancelling it proves you’re literally not lying about your XP and we have no way of determining that unless you do.

[Raven Branwen]

Because you ignored our reads and it was a really bad antitown play to mislynch Creature and you were disrespecting both me and Titus by ignoring it. I standby what I said about it and Ali even temp voted you for it, so it was a godawful mislynch but it’s way more likely that NK15 is lying about his upgrade than you treestumped a buddy.

I’m pissed because Creature was practically locktown for me, not one of the iffy slots I could have possibly been persuaded on and for all of the reasons I already stated. The mod would have also agreed to have given us an extension because of not responding in a timely manner to critically important questions but they told me, that they couldn’t cancel his lynch, even if he hadn’t had been flipped yet. To be fair to you, Creature was posting elsewhere when his being active in the game could have also made a difference. I get really upset when I’m extremely confident on a tr and it gets completely ignored like that. You even briefly accused Titus of having a tmi read on him, I think that angered me the most.

ABR is was lock town for me and you and Titus "disrespected" my read by ignoring how he couldn't be scum. Your PoE isn't the only one that matters. We all have our own perspectives.

How did I disrespect you? I unvoted him, remember?

[Pink Ball]

Creature wasn't obvtown. Raven you're calling out someone because you were right about a townread at the same time you're having second thoughts on someone who treestumped scum.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't be paranoid about everything, that's part of the game. But that's the point: it's part of the game. You can't act like someone being wrong when you're right is so fucking atrocious when being paranoid is part of the game.

Ame is being really respectful with how he's playing and he's really trying, so how about working together instead of blaming him for a mislynch?

[Not Known 15]

Hmm if I`d get a vengekill I could cancel, especially now that the mod cleared up that my upgrade doesnt flip upon lynch or vengekill tonight.
However, about Ame - I noticed we don`t have a fullclaim from them(what exactly is the upgrade, xp for every round) I want to see that now.

[Raven Branwen]

Creature wasn't obvtown. Raven you're calling out someone because you were right about a townread at the same time you're having second thoughts on someone who treestumped scum.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't be paranoid about everything, that's part of the game. But that's the point: it's part of the game. You can't act like someone being wrong when you're right is so fucking atrocious when being paranoid is part of the game.

Ame is being really respectful with how he's playing and he's really trying, so how about working together instead of blaming him for a mislynch?

We obviously aren’t going to see eye to eye on this. I unvoted ABR and Ame drove a mislynch on a read I considered obvtown. And when I checked the thread it was too late. The mod would have given us an extension but not cancel the flip. I respect your viewpoint but I also have mine and I have a right to view it differently. You’re of course free to condemn for having a different pov than you but that doesn’t change my mind on that. Re: Ame. I honestly thought he was confitown. I had no idea that scum could actually kill a buddy but Occams razor still points to Ame being town, so your analogy fails to take that into account.

[Raven Branwen]

Hmm if I`d get a vengekill I could cancel, especially now that the mod cleared up that my upgrade doesnt flip upon lynch or vengekill tonight.
However, about Ame - I noticed we don`t have a fullclaim from them(what exactly is the upgrade, xp for every round) I want to see that now.

I’m opposed to venge since it doesn’t cancel out scum’s NK, where we can get info based off of unaccounted XP. With venge, yes the game could literally end if correct but far more likely, it just loses us a later free mislynch, so bad idea. I don’t see how venge is anything but proscum.

[Ame]

PB you made my day, thank you [:

[Ame]

NK I intentionally haven't claimed, but I have a weak investigative and a passive ability (which I obtained from the upgrade). The 1-shot vigilante is what I started with and the investigative could be used once I successfully stumped someone.

[Raven Branwen]

Creature wasn't obvtown. Raven you're calling out someone because you were right about a townread at the same time you're having second thoughts on someone who treestumped scum.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't be paranoid about everything, that's part of the game. But that's the point: it's part of the game. You can't act like someone being wrong when you're right is so fucking atrocious when being paranoid is part of the game.

Ame is being really respectful with how he's playing and he's really trying, so how about working together instead of blaming him for a mislynch?

We obviously aren’t going to see eye to eye on this. I unvoted ABR and Ame drove a mislynch on a read I considered obvtown. And when I checked the thread it was too late. The mod would have given us an extension but not cancel the flip. I respect your viewpoint but I also have mine and I have a right to view it differently. You’re of course free to condemn for having a different pov than you but that doesn’t change my mind on that. Re: Ame. I honestly thought he was confitown. I had no idea that scum could actually kill a buddy but Occams razor still points to Ame being town, so your analogy fails to take that into account.

Having doubt/= driving a mislynch. I didn’t even vote for Ame. I was legit in shock that he wasn’t actually confitown like I had previously thought. I’m of course willing to work together with my trs and Ame is still one. What I’m waiting for is proof of NK15 cancelling his upgrade and proving that he actually has 4 XP, which he should if he’s telling the truth about his claim.

What I will do however is apologize for and redact is my blacklist threat. That was a way overreaction but I was seriously pissed enough to consider replacing out once I saw the flip but then I thought better of it.

And PB, you’re definitely wrong about Creature not being obvtown. 1) Farkset/Mastina dissociatives. 2) LC was super townie. 3) Creature’s role claim. 4) Creature’s posting - especially the post where he said he refused to lynch Ali, me or Raya. You can even add Titus’ VCA into that. Like seriously, how many reasons do you need?

[Not Known 15]

Hmm if I`d get a vengekill I could cancel, especially now that the mod cleared up that my upgrade doesnt flip upon lynch or vengekill tonight.
However, about Ame - I noticed we don`t have a fullclaim from them(what exactly is the upgrade, xp for every round) I want to see that now.

I’m opposed to venge since it doesn’t cancel out scum’s NK, where we can get info based off of unaccounted XP. With venge, yes the game could literally end if correct but far more likely, it just loses us a later free mislynch, so bad idea. I don’t see how venge is anything but proscum.

Why is a vengekill less likely to hit scum than a lynch? You realize that if scum cannot kill the next two times in a row(which is not unlikely) then with the vengekill variant we have SIX instead of four town-driven kills?

[Pink Ball]

Creature wasn't obvtown. Raven you're calling out someone because you were right about a townread at the same time you're having second thoughts on someone who treestumped scum.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't be paranoid about everything, that's part of the game. But that's the point: it's part of the game. You can't act like someone being wrong when you're right is so fucking atrocious when being paranoid is part of the game.

Ame is being really respectful with how he's playing and he's really trying, so how about working together instead of blaming him for a mislynch?

We obviously aren’t going to see eye to eye on this. I unvoted ABR and Ame drove a mislynch on a read I considered obvtown. And when I checked the thread it was too late. The mod would have given us an extension but not cancel the flip. I respect your viewpoint but I also have mine and I have a right to view it differently. You’re of course free to condemn for having a different pov than you but that doesn’t change my mind on that. Re: Ame. I honestly thought he was confitown. I had no idea that scum could actually kill a buddy but Occams razor still points to Ame being town, so your analogy fails to take that into account.

Having doubt/= driving a mislynch. I didn’t even vote for Ame. I was legit in shock that he wasn’t actually confitown like I had previously thought. I’m of course willing to work together with my trs and Ame is still one. What I’m waiting for is proof of NK15 cancelling his upgrade and proving that he actually has 4 XP, which he should if he’s telling the truth about his claim.

What I will do however is apologize for and redact is my blacklist threat. That was a way overreaction but I was seriously pissed enough to consider replacing out once I saw the flip but then I thought better of it.

And PB, you’re definitely wrong about Creature not being obvtown. 1) Farkset/Mastina dissociatives. 2) LC was super townie. 3) Creature’s role claim. 4) Creature’s posting - especially the post where he said he refused to lynch Ali, me or Raya. You can even add Titus’ VCA into that. Like seriously, how many reasons do you need?

My analogy is towards the point "don't get pissed because someone is wrong when you're right. Get pissed when someone is being an asshole". Ame hasn't been an asshole. Nothing else, nothing more.

And I don't agree with Creature being obvtown, that's an opinion, I can't be wrong. Again, not because you were right on his alignment means Creature was absolutely obvtown and everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong. Ex ante and ex post. Yes, now that we know he flipped town, we can say "hm yeah that was pretty stupid, he was very townie because of all of this reasons", but when you don't KNOW his alignment, you get paranoid and think "no that's NAI" or "that looked suspicious". You're leaving out the context of the situation.

The only obvtown in this game, from my perspective, is you. Creature had some iffy posts, LC had some iffy posts, and Creature not being present matched with his scum meta. You on the other hand, are so fucking obvtown it hurts!

[Raven Branwen]

Hmm if I`d get a vengekill I could cancel, especially now that the mod cleared up that my upgrade doesnt flip upon lynch or vengekill tonight.
However, about Ame - I noticed we don`t have a fullclaim from them(what exactly is the upgrade, xp for every round) I want to see that now.

I’m opposed to venge since it doesn’t cancel out scum’s NK, where we can get info based off of unaccounted XP. With venge, yes the game could literally end if correct but far more likely, it just loses us a later free mislynch, so bad idea. I don’t see how venge is anything but proscum.

Why is a vengekill less likely to hit scum than a lynch? You realize that if scum cannot kill the next two times in a row(which is not unlikely) then with the vengekill variant we have SIX instead of four town-driven kills?

You’re still missing the point. Venge /=2 town lynches, if it did, I’d be 100% in favour. What it does is put the power into a single player’s hands and just loses us one additional free mislynch if they get it wrong. What part of that aren’t you getting? And of course you can obviously argue that the lynchee could still hypothetically consensus venge but a lynched slot has no checks and balances, so they are under no obligation to listen to anyone else’s opinions. Sometimes, games have vigges like Ame claims to have had a vig shot and sometimes venge is not something that can be voted on by the majority but since in this case it can. Only way I think it’s a good idea is if NK literally ends the game, which it doesn’t. The most useful application of the mechanic is seeing how the XP thing factors into peoples’ decisions. Like I was convinced on TSE scum until the venge had no effect on his push on me, which you’d 100% expect due to scum obviously needing to survive, so I don’t think scum!TSE would have pushed me knowing I could literally venge him. Plus his posting in general today reads townie to me and I also think Mastina spewed him town.

[Raven Branwen]

Creature wasn't obvtown. Raven you're calling out someone because you were right about a townread at the same time you're having second thoughts on someone who treestumped scum.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't be paranoid about everything, that's part of the game. But that's the point: it's part of the game. You can't act like someone being wrong when you're right is so fucking atrocious when being paranoid is part of the game.

Ame is being really respectful with how he's playing and he's really trying, so how about working together instead of blaming him for a mislynch?

We obviously aren’t going to see eye to eye on this. I unvoted ABR and Ame drove a mislynch on a read I considered obvtown. And when I checked the thread it was too late. The mod would have given us an extension but not cancel the flip. I respect your viewpoint but I also have mine and I have a right to view it differently. You’re of course free to condemn for having a different pov than you but that doesn’t change my mind on that. Re: Ame. I honestly thought he was confitown. I had no idea that scum could actually kill a buddy but Occams razor still points to Ame being town, so your analogy fails to take that into account.

Having doubt/= driving a mislynch. I didn’t even vote for Ame. I was legit in shock that he wasn’t actually confitown like I had previously thought. I’m of course willing to work together with my trs and Ame is still one. What I’m waiting for is proof of NK15 cancelling his upgrade and proving that he actually has 4 XP, which he should if he’s telling the truth about his claim.

What I will do however is apologize for and redact is my blacklist threat. That was a way overreaction but I was seriously pissed enough to consider replacing out once I saw the flip but then I thought better of it.

And PB, you’re definitely wrong about Creature not being obvtown. 1) Farkset/Mastina dissociatives. 2) LC was super townie. 3) Creature’s role claim. 4) Creature’s posting - especially the post where he said he refused to lynch Ali, me or Raya. You can even add Titus’ VCA into that. Like seriously, how many reasons do you need?

My analogy is towards the point "don't get pissed because someone is wrong when you're right. Get pissed when someone is being an asshole". Ame hasn't been an asshole. Nothing else, nothing more.

And I don't agree with Creature being obvtown, that's an opinion, I can't be wrong. Again, not because you were right on his alignment means Creature was absolutely obvtown and everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong. Ex ante and ex post. Yes, now that we know he flipped town, we can say "hm yeah that was pretty stupid, he was very townie because of all of this reasons", but when you don't KNOW his alignment, you get paranoid and think "no that's NAI" or "that looked suspicious". You're leaving out the context of the situation.

The only obvtown in this game, from my perspective, is you. Creature had some iffy posts, LC had some iffy posts, and Creature not being present matched with his scum meta. You on the other hand, are so fucking obvtown it hurts!

That is true, he was online at the time of his wagon posting, You definitely know my meta. I hate to mislynch as town. I think it’s probably a safe bet that had spring not replaced out, she probably would have gotten mislynched at some point. But you have an excellent point and I need to be a lot more chill about games, so sorry @Ame, if I said anything to make you feel bad. PB is of course right, you don’t deserve my coming down on you like I did. I guess I’m being the “asshole” in this equation, so please accept my sincere apology for being such a jerk about it.

[Pink Ball]

For what is worth, I don't think you've crossed any lines.

Let's move on!

While diverting crazy theories is part of this game, at this point the remaining scum has to cling to whatever they can make up to get the required amount of mislynches they need to win. Even if Ali was the one who brought up the possibility of Ame being the remaining scum, I think NK15 going for it is a desperate call of "I'll do whatever it takes".

I don't know about NK15's reluctancy about cancelling the upgrade, like where does that come from... But NK15 was my main concern yesterday and that hasn't changed.

I'm right here now:
{Ame, Raven}
{Titus, Ali}
{TSE, ABR}
{NK15}

I'm fine with lynching any of the bottom three, but mechanically speaking, I'd rather go for NK15 so he doesn't get to vengekill if the game continues.

[Not Known 15]

What it does is put the power into a single player’s hands and just loses us one additional free mislynch if they get it wrong.

And? Do you really think that this town, as collective, is better at finding scum via lynch than by vengekills?
And there is an additional good thing I just thought about. I have 4 xp. So... everyone tells us their current xp. You lynch me(it`s inevitable anyways), I try to kill someone with 4 (or 5 if no one exists)xp. Only scum should be hit by that kill attempt.
Then it is 1v5, with one lynch and one nightkill.
then lynch, vengekill, 1v3 if nightkill 1v2; another lynch and nightkill.
If it is 1v6 then another person makes a shot like that, and so on...
this is MUCH better than no vengekill.

[Titus]

NK15, who would you shoot?

[Not Known 15]

We can even confirm that somebody didn`t lie about the xp they have! And because scum died Night 1/Day 2 they cannot have gotten ANY xp from their scumpartners(Yes Farkran is a treestump but all treestumps can do is talk, they cannot perform actions).

[Not Known 15]

NK15, who would you shoot?

I`d need to know who has how much xp. Ideally, someone with 4 xp due to what I said above(the kill fails if they indeed have 4 xp, which they will NOT have if they used 1xp for nightkill)

[Not Known 15]

XP list:
Pink Ball -
Albert B. Rampage -
TrueSoulEnergy -
Alisae -
Raven Branwen -
Not Known 15 - 4
Titus -
Ame -


I have cancelled my upgrade