Micro 941 | Brass and Shrapnel | Game Over!

[HoldenGolden]

VOTE: DKkoba

For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned.

nice omgus buddy. mad i called your gimmick out?

i townread DK, this feels like a very natural response to that omgus

I cant quote by selecting what I want and then hitting the button on mobile apperently.

What do you make of Hoctacs logic he expressed later since you view it as an omgus?

[Hoctac]

I will catchup on this tomorrow hopefully.

To address the timing of my push comments: That was just when I decided to have a reread of the thread and picked on the things I mentioned on DkKoba.

[DkKoba]

im drinking so imma just be like clear,

my pronouns are they/them please use them because i am not a he/him despite my avi being male

[DkKoba]

I will catchup on this tomorrow hopefully.

To address the timing of my push comments: That was just when I decided to have a reread of the thread and picked on the things I mentioned on DkKoba.

you are blatent mafia

[HoldenGolden]

wait nvm i see the -D i need to STOP SKIMMING

Being honest, its Datisi in that hydra which makes my brain just stop reading his posts due to the consistency he has rolled PR in all games I've been in with him. My brain is just conditioned at this point to accept Datisi as town and not actually scum hunt them.

Trying to break that notion this game has been...difficult.

[DkKoba]

this is a PR only game, reading the game is 100% about reading for roles. I am experieced in this because my first favorite open setup I played was a special setup on epicmafia. honestly mafia are going to have similar tells to vigs? not sure how to take the analysis on this but people who roll a PR role will typically be scummy in nature. but thats just deep mafia philosophy im getting into.

[HoldenGolden]

@Holden, Dkkoba is from Town of Salem. Now I don't have much experience there, I do have experience playing forum mafia with people from there. They tend to have a hyper-aggressive and brute force playstyle, to basically beat down the other players into doing what they want. So hopefully that helps with the question you asked Kilga.

You do realize I played ToS backway long ago and RL mafia prior to fourm right lol? (I remember bringing up ToS in the newbie so I'm not sure if it exactly explained it).

I dont normally equate much to stuff like that since the different mechanics primate different playstyles that dont translate over imo. Maybe for the first couple of games, but Phoneix human Rights seems to be accustomed to fourm mafia enough where I doubt he is in a chat mafia mindset solely.

Besides ToS is garbage and I shall make people learn the benefits of fourm mafia by lynching them regardless of alignment (chat mafia is fine.)

[HoldenGolden]

this is a PR only game, reading the game is 100% about reading for roles. I am experieced in this because my first favorite open setup I played was a special setup on epicmafia. honestly mafia are going to have similar tells to vigs? not sure how to take the analysis on this but people who roll a PR role will typically be scummy in nature. but thats just deep mafia philosophy im getting into.

I know, I have a list already forming of who is what from tells.

Tbh the ideal way to approach a game like this in theory, regardless of alignment, is [reducted]

[DkKoba]

this is a PR only game, reading the game is 100% about reading for roles. I am experieced in this because my first favorite open setup I played was a special setup on epicmafia. honestly mafia are going to have similar tells to vigs? not sure how to take the analysis on this but people who roll a PR role will typically be scummy in nature. but thats just deep mafia philosophy im getting into.

I know, I have a list already forming of who is what from tells.

Tbh the ideal way to approach a game like this in theory, regardless of alignment, is [reducted]

well the issue is im good at faking these tells from said setup you wont know which one I am.

[clidd]

And Ceejay, I remember doing a metaread on you, I'll take a look to find the game.

I found the game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=82235.

(post 148, page 6 ~ stretch)

I had a hard time finding any scum games from him, given the favorable statistical chance for the green line-up. Therefore, I drew a comparison with 5 games of his past games (town). His pattern is based on a structure of simple intuitive phrases and vague actions, with more than one interpretation. I noticed that he is usually lynched a lot in games as town, due to the lynch policy. The style is identical to what he is following in this game (as in any game, regardless of alignment). It is strongly probable that, if he is not eliminated by lynch, he will last until the end of the game, precisely because he is not an expressive vocal antagonist, therefore, he is not a threat to the scum side. Particularly, I am indifferent to his position now, considering the lack of accuracy in my read about players who share that kind of trait.

I remember that you have a significant mislynch rate as town, and you are usually quite vague in terms of spontaneous scumread reasons. One difference that I noticed at the beginning of that game (that you were scum), is that your behavior was more evasive at the beginning of the game, opting for some TLs and only later advancing to bad impressions that would justify voting. Here, however, you started the game by announcing a impression about Holden, which was basically a slight initial push, but which did not feature any serious read. In that sense, I imagine that the initiative suggests an approximation of your meta as Town!Ceejay than necessarily the avoidance of Scum!Ceejay, but nothing SO glaring that influences your displacement from the null zone. I don't feel comfortable having you as SL or TL yet.

[clidd]

@Clidd

I was not able to absorb much of your scum game, but I intend to keep the TL based on the resolutive similarity between your towns games and here.

Was there no similarity between his scum game and his game here? Why TL based just similarity between town games. Maybe he play the same way as scum?

I asked for a scumgame to have a basis on how his scum behavior manifested itself and see whether there was any deviation in conduct compared to the current game. Considering that I was not able to absorb the content of these games very well to profile Scum!Kilgamayan, and also the fact that I do not have a previous experience with this player, I concluded that the real-time evaluation would be more accurate.

Saw this post. But my previous question is still valid. Do you think similarity between one meta town game and the game here gives you more townread on Kilga.

Perhaps there is a more linear proximity between the scumgame and his towngame that I was unable to identify with meta, but I intend to find out as the game progresses. I'm not sure if my TL is correct, but I intend to keep it until I have a better position on the slot.

[DkKoba]

stop reading meta. unless someone ahs played this setup multiple times b4 ur not gonna be able to striclty meta read them based on that. people act different based on role rolled

[Tuxedo Mask]

stop reading meta. unless someone ahs played this setup multiple times b4 ur not gonna be able to striclty meta read them based on that. people act different based on role rolled

Let Clidd play the way that works for them. Also I don't think they ever implied 'to strictly meta read' their read of CJ is a good example.

[DkKoba]

no

[Tuxedo Mask]

no

Do you feel their reads or scum hunting has been flawed? If so what posts?

Yes, I understand you disagree with their meta based style, however do you believe they have reached incorrect conclusions using it?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Also, @Holden what's your read of Dkkoba? I thought I was following it, but your last couple posts make me feel the conclusion I reached was incorrect.

And sorry about the Town of Salem versus epic Mafia, don't know how I screwed it up. @Holden I agree the chat to forum Mafia doesn't seem to have many transferable skills, and I completely forgot you mentioned past experience. However, I still maintain that many chat Mafia players play the way Dkkoba does in Forum Mafia. I don't think your assumption that they should change their playstyle really matters.

[DkKoba]

no

Do you feel their reads or scum hunting has been flawed? If so what posts?

Yes, I understand you disagree with their meta based style, however do you believe they have reached incorrect conclusions using it?

i wouldt know yet! but i refuse to read previous games that are not the same setup.

[HoldenGolden]

Also, @Holden what's your read of Dkkoba? I thought I was following it, but your last couple posts make me feel the conclusion I reached was incorrect.

And sorry about the Town of Salem versus epic Mafia, don't know how I screwed it up. @Holden I agree the chat to forum Mafia doesn't seem to have many transferable skills, and I completely forgot you mentioned past experience. However, I still maintain that many chat Mafia players play the way Dkkoba does in Forum Mafia. I don't think your assumption that they should change their playstyle really matters.

I shall answer your question with an question. What did you think my read was?

It's less that they should change their playstyles and that the differences between the two will give raise to a more nuanced playstyle independent from the previous experiences if that makes sense

[Night 3 Roses]

then why are you telling him to stop? also nobody told you to read them?

-D

pedit: @koba

[HoldenGolden]

Also, @Holden what's your read of Dkkoba? I thought I was following it, but your last couple posts make me feel the conclusion I reached was incorrect.

And sorry about the Town of Salem versus epic Mafia, don't know how I screwed it up. @Holden I agree the chat to forum Mafia doesn't seem to have many transferable skills, and I completely forgot you mentioned past experience. However, I still maintain that many chat Mafia players play the way Dkkoba does in Forum Mafia. I don't think your assumption that they should change their playstyle really matters.

I shall answer your question with an question. What did you think my read was?

It's less that they should change their playstyles and that the differences between the two will give raise to a more nuanced playstyle independent from the previous experiences if that makes sense

If it wasnt clear I plan to answer your question after you answer mine.

[clidd]

stop reading meta. unless someone ahs played this setup multiple times b4 ur not gonna be able to striclty meta read them based on that. people act different based on role rolled

Meta is an auxiliary material that I have been using since my first game on the forum, it is not now that I will get rid of it.

[clidd]

no

Do you feel their reads or scum hunting has been flawed? If so what posts?

Yes, I understand you disagree with their meta based style, however do you believe they have reached incorrect conclusions using it?

i wouldt know yet! but i refuse to read previous games that are not the same setup.

Yes, this is the *context* that I had commented on earlier. I just need to find an applicable medium here.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Spoiler: Posts I read as Holden Town Reading Dkkoba

immediately after DkKoba voted for them. I'm not going to defend DkKoba at length, that's for them to do, but I will say that I thought it was obvious why they dropped their spat with Holden, and Holden didn't seem to hold(en) it against them (see 140).

I can agree on why they dropped it, but what do you think of the tonal aspects of how he dropped his push on me? I have a conflicted read on Phoenix Human Rights hence my change in approach in the latter half of 140.

Also ironically the "Holden" part of the name is a pun reference. Sadly it's a Poker one though.

@N3R (can I call you this?): Flat-out lurking is certainly physically easier, but I think it's also much more likely to get noticed and called out, which is why I personally prioritize looking for minimal effort ahead of no effort.

@Holden: I think DkKoba's frustration reads as genuine. I used to be the same way philosophically about ED1 scumclaiming, and I know people that still are, so I can sympathize with the throwing up of the e-hands at the realization that no one else in the game was buying what they were selling when they thought they had something substantial.

There is a sense of genuineness coming from him, but that came afterwards where he admitted to doing soft pushes that were worth nothing.

As someone who used to be that way, did you escalate that quickly to assumptions like over defensiveness in who responded to your pushes? That's my main gripe with his posts is I feel the quickness of his escalation of frustration is off along with the AI charged language.

my logic going into d1 in a daystart setup is "who is going to be the most annoying player to deal with later on if they arent pushed to participate early on" when i determine who i want to push. Maybe my philosophy is different than most but i always want as much constructive discussion as possible. Now right now i am in passive mode but if i get angered i do start going off on people i have tonal issues with, etc. But in a vig setup i have to hold offbc i know that one fool who thinks aggression =scum is going to be a cool and good vig

I've never understood why people equate any form of aggression with being scum as it is quite the useful tool for townies depending on who they want to pressure.

There is a difference between town vs scum aggression though.

Datisi, is there a reason you unvote before placing your vote on ceejay? If the reason is to show us you were voting for someone prior, I do not understand the logic as you did not include the person's name with the unvote. Strange.

my previous post was talking about RVS votes, in which i said my vote was one of them, and it got clidd to respond to me with a Sherlock gif? s'there a point to this?

-D

Ah, I did not realise clidd had responded with a Sherlock gif. Is there a reason you unvote before voting in the same post?

because i said "

it

has served its purpose now" referring to my current vote? if you're expecting a profound thought behind it, i'm gonna have to disappoint you.

~

Man, my mind short-circuited for a moment there because I completely forgot that Holmes and Moriarty are actual characters that have appeared in many different mediums and not just a hot dude and a foxy grandpa from everyone's favorite cell phone game.

from the what

@Night 3 Roses: I think the post volume difference does matter in that a higher post volume comes across as an active attempt to look good whereas the lower post volume does not. To be sure, not contributing is generally a scummy thing, but I am more wary of someone that's actively trying to look good without actually contributing than someone's that not trying to look good while also not actually contributing.

I will admit I assumed you (or your slot, or whatever term is appropriate) didn't like ceejay or myself not because of any scumhunting justification, but simply because we're voting for you. Aside from Hoctac being unhappy with ceejay for not being original, no one else has seemed to have a problem with the nature of the pressure being applied to you, so I figured it was a safe assumption. I've seen so many players over the years do it, so.

you're assuming i'm trying to look good. i'm well aware of what "active lurking" is. i was posting because i felt like posting, and at the time what i felt like "actually contributing" either a thing that could've been ai was already dismissed as non-ai, or my question got ignored.

i can tell (or at least i like to believe i can...) the difference between good votes and bad votes on my slot, simply disliking/scumreading someone because they dare vote against me would be silly. i think your arguments are bad but they seem to be genuine. (un)fortunately ico is currently having some sorta holiday so i can't exactly bug him right now to ask what he thinks.

(particularly since my question about your potential alt-account-ness wasn't addressed)

are you saying it wasn't addressed by hoctac or did you miss the second part of 165?

-D

I like the

"your reasons for suspecting me look bad, but I think you're town"

mentality. It's the kind of thing that I find myself applying in every game as town.

I feel that a scum mentality is more inclined to apply omgus in this situation on the pretext that the accuser is acting in bad faith

.

Where is your town lean on Phoneix Human Rights coming from? Although it requires flipping the roles accuser and defendent, he expressed among his posts I was acting in bad faith to why he asked. Is the logic invaildied when reversed in your PoV?

Was the eariler remark about him toning down his aggression to avoid being NK by scum a reference to a previous game?

So these posts all felt like you had a gut town read of Dkkoba, and were then branching from there to question all the other players based around Dokkoba/your read.

Then this post in response to CJ.

I'm willing to excuse it primarily since 3 players have expressed interest in the claim joke (which means at least one townie is among you three), but I can only understand your point if o had claimed something within the scope of the game.

It sort of out of nowhere implies you've been scum reading every one that complained about you jokingly claiming.

It's less that they should change their playstyles and that the differences between the two will give raise to a more nuanced playstyle independent from the previous experiences if that makes sense

I'm not sure I follow. This still feels like you're equating something that would be good to happen with something that WILL happen. Sorry.

[HoldenGolden]

Ah you are incorrect. The post (in my ISO) right before the start of your quoted posts gives a statement about my read.

immediately after DkKoba voted for them. I'm not going to defend DkKoba at length, that's for them to do, but I will say that I thought it was obvious why they dropped their spat with Holden, and Holden didn't seem to hold(en) it against them (see 140).

I can agree on why they dropped it, but what do you think of the tonal aspects of how he dropped his push on me?

I have a conflicted read on Phoenix Human Rights hence my change in approach in the latter half of 140.

Also ironically the "Holden" part of the name is a pun reference. Sadly it's a Poker one though.

To expand, like I said before, my playstyle tends to bait the intial push out if RVS and I've grown to start anticipate the types of AI responses I would get. Phoneix human Rights was a new anomaly where he reacted in a manner ive havent seen quite before. To cut to the point, I had him nullscum at the time due to the early interaction and the tonal ssues I had with it but was conflicted by his admission of his weak push seeming genuine.

Overtime it has evolved into a townlean as I've learned more about his playstyle and more importantly had more posts from him to read.

The joke claim comment is merely saying that at least one town member (by mathematical standards) expressed something about the claim meaning. That suggests to me it may be a grey area to pursue due to this since its certain that it stuck out to town. The reason why I'm still inquiring on Ceevee about his reasoning is since it's an independent thought he had which seems by his own words to be a rare occurrence.

[GeorgeBailey]

;