Mini Normal 2143 (Game over)

[NorwegianboyEE]

It leaves me with the fact that you are still scum trying to look town by reading the game and telling us what you think we think you should think.

whats this mean

He thinks I’m faking, basically.

? Was he referring to you?

[Firebringer]

i had no idea who he was talking to

[Fredrick A Campbell]

It leaves me with the fact that you are still scum trying to look town by reading the game and telling us what you think we think you should think.

Or he could just be town.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Anyway, I'll be online you at 1100 GMT instead of the earlier stated time.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’ll think about things more when we get a new vote count.

[Drew-Sta]

Idk? I already feel kinda burnt out from this game. And it's been a glorious zero flips so far.

got to pace urself my dude.

Hahahahahahahahaha.

[Drew-Sta]

It leaves me with the fact that you are still scum trying to look town by reading the game and telling us what you think we think you should think.

whats this mean

He thinks I’m faking, basically.

? Was he referring to you?

I believe so.

Just doing stuff with kids. Be back in an hour or so.

[Mohab500]

I might check sometime today, too lazy though.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

1130 GMT.

[Drew-Sta]

I'm also not assuming here - you're making that claim yourself. Claiming it makes you NAI is also unreasonable in one sense. You wanting us to read you as null assumes that reading you as null is not reading you as scum, ergo you're more likely town.

To be read as null has no basis. Why would you not want to have it point to you as town? If you are town, after all, aren't you trying to show your innocence? Why would you want to leave any room to doubt your position?

1. I mean, I'm fine with getting scumread for stuff, but im helping people read me by telling them that those things arent "scumtells" and just "nulltells" in my specific case. It's not that I dont want to "show my innocence", but if you're gonna scumread me for something i do in all my games then your chance of hitting scum with me is no better than random.

However tho:

The first quote is a bit of a cop out. You basically say 'I only town read, I don't scum read, until I actually do then that's fine, but otherwise I don't do that so trust me I'm town.' You can't make a claim, point to meta then contradict that claim and then wonder why you're being picked up on it.

2. The only answer I have for this it's, just it's a hard habit to break, I could give you a long explanation on it but

You have played wtih me before

, and back when I was a more scumhunting kind of player even tho that was several years ago. You may not remember that game tho.
When i made an alt called Luna Fox I decided to try townhunting instead and I ended up liking it, so I adopted that to my main, and that's how that happened.
Anyway the thing is that, I decided to not hold back on anything this game because I felt that sometimes I was letting myself be held back by my own fears of expressing my own opinions on things, and I guess as a result part of my playstyle that is scumhunting has resurfaced without me even realizing it. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing tho.

1. Let me put it to you this way. Telling people how you should read them is directing them in how to make their decision on your alignment. That's inherently a move which requires we trust you on your word, and in mafia that is an unwise move. Are you seeing what I'm trying to say?

2. It's your habit. But other people are not in your head and don't know what you know. We're here to observe you and determine that for ourselves. So you can justify it in any way you want but it requires me to trust you and, frankly, in a game where misplaced trust can get egg on your face, I'm reluctant to allow that to happen without good reason. Why should I trust you on what your meta is?

I checked fungi, they were town. So what are you actually trying to say here?!

What? I was scum in Fungi mafia.

... yeah, ok, I checked it and thought I saw you as scum. My bad.

Can you just sum up why you vote me? I absolutely detest responding point by point walls of text.

How you've bounced around in the game, and how you've acted in sync with Sakura, and your chainsaw of FB.

Again, not 100% sold but the behaviour isn't right and presents at this time as scum.

Becuase you're also assuming that I brought my meta to be townread, when my intention was to tell people that me not scumhunting is NAI for me.

Don't you think that town SHOULD scumhunt though? And if so why don't you want to help town? Is it lack of confidence?

Technically I do tho?
Townhunting is basically find town, and then PoE scum.

But yeah, I mean i found that my scum hit ratio was larger when I townhunt and my getting mislynched ratio was lower.

It's not your style I have a problem with or your methods. It's the inconsistency you've applied in this game with those methods, and your suggestion that you're consistent to what you've been doing as town, when you actually haven't. Can you see my point?

It's a big fat wall. Trump wishes he could build what I built.

Spoiler:

...

Norwegian, thoughts on this Jester talk? What do you think should be done if there is a Jester?

I think jester talk is fine because it can be used to see who's got a scummy mindset or not. But i'm pretty sure it's just a fake claim so i don't personally care much about it. I don't believe this game actually has a jester.

...

This game does have way too many inactive players right now.

@Drew-Sta
@CooLDoG
@Blurryface3189
@Persivul

So, Looking at the mod's confirmation post, there's 1 player that hasn't confirmed yet.
Persivul is V/LA according to his profile so that could easily be the cause of him not posting. (Although an ego search turns out he's at least posting on his other games, V/LA supposed to end today so I hope we hear from him)
CD hasn't been on site for 2 days, could be the person that hasnt confirmed.
Looking at Blurry's site activity seems to be someone that posts once every blue moon.
Same with Drew.

Looks like we just got some people that just arent active in general. I don't think we can discern alignment from activity alone.

These two posts in tandem appear to be attempts to get attention off currently posting players and into the dark. Which is moving from difficult to lynch players and on to unable to be defended targets.

The decision to move there when neither of these players have formed strong scum reads they've advertised, plus the fact that they seem unwilling to push a wagon, suggests they're more comfortable with moving something on a player that is not posting, as they will struggle to defend themselves and if lynched, it is easy to absolve responsibility of their actions.
...

I'm not sure i want to trust Firebringer anymore. Because their read on Sakura makes no sense. Why are they so obvtown bruh?
VOTE: Firebringer

FB's argument was very clear, actually. Your distrust of it seems fishy. I'm not one to white knight, FB could be scum. But your argument around it seems odd.

It's like you want to get rid of them.

Also i'd like Sakura/Quick to actually explain why they tr FB, because that shit makes little sense to me right now.

quick scumreads me dude.

Not hard enough.

This appears to be a scummy, lazy tactic. You're throwing shit at someone and misrepresenting another players view to push your own.

I consider this a tell.

Also, it's a minor take considering half the game is dead. But all of the wagons seen so far have been god-awful. Can we please get a good and decent one going on FB for the sake of my sanity. Tnx.

Including your own?

I'm not sure i want to trust Firebringer anymore. Because their read on Sakura makes no sense. Why are they so obvtown bruh?
VOTE: Firebringer

its the fact that i don't think ur trying to manipulate me in anyway. i think and this is just a theory (and u might try it next time ur scum) u would more or less use me as a foundation to get ur placeholder/foot in the game by locking me in for ur read and then maneuver from there. I think ur playing this without that when the easy option of manipulating me exists and I think even if ur going for a more serious game u would still try to manipulate me in some way.

I'm considering the fact that you've TR NPOM, Quick and now Sakura. I'm not seeing how this game makes sense if all scum are in lurkers. Are you just trying to pocket most of the active players? And what's this "they would manipulate me if i was scum" BS? How do you know that would be scum!Sakura's play here?

You're too fluffy and pockety compared to our last game FB. There's a pretty big difference.

In Fungi Mafia FB was actually lightly scum hunting, also picking a couple few TR's. Not handing them out like candy. Also, even though he always jokes. It was intertwined with actual solving. Here he just doesn't seem to care. As evidenced by wagoning either for some personal BS reason that has nothing to do with the game, or encouraging a wagon a dude that hasn't even posted FFS.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11828723

doesn't seem like a lazy scum norwe push

This makes me second guess my view on norwe, but I also think it's a case of nor pushing to get something started on someone.

fungi mafia cliff notes of Norwee:
--> Sometimes gave some insight to players usually mild mannered. Usually only gave long cases for why he thought a player was town.
--> Doesn't try to take control of game or lead. Perfectly willing to take a back seat.
--> Passiveness

Ur scumcase on me doesn't match this.

Yeah, im comfortable with u in my townreads.

Disagree. This isn't what they're doing here IMHO.

Number 1 and 2 don't correlate with their existing behaviour in this game. I checked fungi, they were town. So what are you actually trying to say here?!

I'll come back to 622.

Also i'd like Sakura/Quick to actually explain why they tr FB, because that shit makes little sense to me right now.

Firebringer is an old friend and knows all my weaknesses and It hasnt felt like he's trying to exploit them, a scum!FB would have

probably

TR me much earlier considering I got into the game from the get go and would've been pretty easy to call me TR due to meta and I would be none the wiser. His explanation on his TR of me matches his play around me and so I figured he's probably town.

You're too fluffy and pockety compared to our last game FB. There's a pretty big difference.

Our last game he was pretty obsessed with me, but, I feel he was MORE fluffy on fungi mafia.

Basically my feeling also comes from the fact that Firebringer is a pretty strong player, he is perfectly capable of playing normally,

but where's the fun in that

, and getting himself townread in the process. Considering he's just being fluffy he's just having fun, and being in an environment of people that arent very familiar with him

to my knowledge

he'd have a much easier time just playing normally and getting townread as scum, than whatever he's doing right now, it feels kind of anti-scum, if you know what i mean.

There's a non zero chance he's playing this way in order to pocket specific people

including me

, and you're free to point and laugh at me if he flips scum, but at this point I don't think he's doing anything to advance any specific agenda.

That's buddying to get them in your pocket.

Oh and talking reads, I do agree that now this is more similar to the town norwegian than the scum norwegian i've seen. So norwegian can go into the town bin too.

You and Nor sit at opposite ends of the spectrum on FB, which IMHO is of interest given the links I've drawn to you both.

I don’t think FB flipping scum would equate Sakura scum based on FB’s play around the slot.

And that right there is an interesting post. Basically absolving Sakura from being mafia if FB flips scum. Why would you do that? How do you have any certainty that is the case?! It's a post of certainty, and I cannot understand how you can be so certain about them.

651/post], [post]653, 660, 664, 666, 683 I'll come back to later as there's a lot to analyse in there for me.

Porkens vote in 696 is odd.

Drew has been lacking too. He came, he left. And everyone forgot im.

Now you touch on me again. And not in the 'sexy Norwegian chick' kind of way.

You seem to like to shift focus at times when focus is on you.
...
Porkens appears to be trying to trap people but not sure if that's scum hunting or trying to get townies lynched by their own rope.

Tl:dr - I think Nor, Sakura appear to be scum at this point. I think we need to wait for Farken and Pers to contribute before we can proceed much further.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

Pages 28-32 are odd and I need to go review again. CoolDog's entrance changed the games dynamic a bit. I have to sift through what they've posted better as my initial thoughts are it didn't read right in placed and also read very well in others.

This is the shortest version I can compile. Not sure if Drew-Sta would approve of this.

Eh, do what you need. Just don't misrepresent me.

Anyway.

One thing i do not understand is why people think that I self-meta with the purpose of getting townread.
If there I was using self-meta for the purpose of getting townread It would mean that I'm purposefully and knowingly using a towntell that I know I only use as town and that would be a trust tell.

I self meta to avoid getting scumread for things that are NAI in my case.
Anything else is fair game.

If there are things that I only do as town and know them, I'll do them in my scum games.
If there are things that I only do as town and dont know them then they are a viable way to meta read me via towntells. But then I wouldnt self-meta about them since I'm unaware of them.

Now that you know, can we please drop this self-meta from talk from like pages ago, and read me on the rest of my play.
Thanks.

Any further inquiries or scumreads based on me "not scumhunting" (even tho i ended up doing it) will be ignored and idc anymore at this point to correct people coz it's getting tiring to repeat it.

You've just argued the use of meta against you is wrong, then clarified your meta, now asked everyone to stop using meta against you - despite you being the one who brought it into question in the first place - and are now going to ignore any use of meta mentioned with you.

Now, I don't really give a shit about meta. I think it's a useless frame of reference. But please, you're the one who brought it up. And you're also being inconsistent to what you've actually argued. Can you acknowledge now that this looks at least odd?

So from glancing, most of the arguments on me just aren’t very good...? That’s twice now i’ve gotten dumped a bunch of musings and lazy detective work regarding my usage of hyperboles.
What’s your best argument in favour of scum!me from your POV Drew?

See above.

I'm not 100% convinced but I think it's a worthwhile vote at the moment.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I'm now online earlier than projected. I'll continue my reread of the thread.

[NorwegianboyEE]

your chainsaw of FB.

So i’ve read what it means and i’ve never done this.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Wiki tells suck anyway.
I guess that’s all you can resort to when you eliminate meta and all beauty from your life?

[NorwegianboyEE]

That’s2 players i hate now. And no, it has nothing to do with OMGUS.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Sakura is most likely town btw. And the case on her is bad too.

[Drew-Sta]

I'm not sure i want to trust Firebringer anymore. Because their read on Sakura makes no sense. Why are they so obvtown bruh?
VOTE: Firebringer

^^ That's a chainsaw. And the posts that follow. So yes, you did do it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So what?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Wiki tells suck anyway.
I guess that’s all you can resort to when you eliminate meta and all beauty from your life?

It mentioned that more research is needed anyway.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

That’s2 players i hate now. And no, it has nothing to do with OMGUS.

I don't fully understand the reasons. Is it because they don't use meta?

[NorwegianboyEE]

That’s2 players i hate now. And no, it has nothing to do with OMGUS.

I don't fully understand the reasons. Is it because they don't use meta?

And they tunnel their vote on town because they don't like my playstyle.

[Firebringer]

just tell people who continue to say "meta is trash" that they are trash.

seriously all the oldies who shout meta = bad don't even understand how to use it because they are fucking boomers.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Drew and Corndog could both either be scum or town depending on whether they are genuinely tunnely players or they are scum coming up with awful reasonings for scumreading me. Either way, they are always frustrating to deal with.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

That’s2 players i hate now. And no, it has nothing to do with OMGUS.

I don't fully understand the reasons. Is it because they don't use meta?

And they tunnel their vote on town because they don't like my playstyle.

I'm not going to scum-read you for your playstyle, but I am finding you very hard to read along with Firebringer and his merry men.

[Firebringer]

i seriously eyeroll anytime a boomer tells me "OHH META CAN BE MANIPULATED" like of course u fucking moron. the idea is to finding the nuances the player isn't aware of or has a hard time changing and using that to inform you of the player. Not this revolutionary idea. But boomers can't adjust because they tried using meta once or twice realize "ohh shit people changed I can't use this anymore" and then went "ohh well meta is trash" instead "Ohh this meta is outdated I need to readjusted".

[Fredrick A Campbell]

No need to get personal.

Calling players oldies creates an in-group and an out-group, which could be very divisive.